Dutch journalist claims evidence MH17 shot down by Russian BUK missile

[Penguin]

civilian says Dutch journalist lied about he said Buk shot down Boeing

You confuse journalist and agency.

 

[Hindustani78]

Dutch seek BUK missile witnesses in MH17 crash probe - Yahoo News
1 hour ago.

The Hague (AFP) - Dutch and international experts probing the MH17 plane crash in eastern Ukraine appealed Monday for witnesses who saw the transport or firing of a BUK surface-to-air missile around the time of the disaster.


"Investigators are looking at all scenarios. One of these scenarios is that the plane was shot down at 4:20 pm local time on July 17," the Dutch public prosecutor's office said in a statement.

"Given this scenario, investigators are looking for witnesses who can tell more about the transport, crew and launch of a BUK rocket in the area in the days before and after the crash," it said.

All 298 people on board the Malaysia Airlines jetliner -- the majority of them Dutch -- died when it was shot down over war-torn eastern Ukraine last year.

The Netherlands has been charged with leading the investigation into the cause of the incident and identifying the dead.

Dutch authorities are also in charge of the criminal investigation into the crash, which occurred at a time of fierce fighting between Ukraine's army and pro-Russian separatists.

Kiev and the West have claimed that the Boeing 777 was shot down by the separatists, using a BUK surface-to-air missile supplied by Russia. Moscow denies the charges, pointing the finger at Kiev.

Prosecutors stressed "this call for witnesses does not mean there is incontrovertible proof to what caused the crash."

"It's too early to draw conclusions on the disaster," they added.

The request has been widely circulated via social media and news stations, along with a video in Russian with English subtitles.

The video shows images of a lowbed truck-and-trailer transporting the alleged BUK missile system through various locations near where MH17 was shot down, before being allegedly taken back to Russia.

It also shows what investigators believed to be a BUK self-propelled missile system driving along a road.

The video also plays recorded phonecalls, purportedly between separatists, in which the rebels refer to a BUK system.

"We are interested in the specific route the truck drove," the voice on the investigators' video says in Russian, urging any witnesses who may have seen the truck or the rocket system "to inform the Joint Investigation Team."

Earlier this month relatives of crash victims viewed parts of the wreckage brought back to the Netherlands, where it is being reconstructed as part of the probe.

Two of the 298 victims have yet to be identified.

 

[Galad]

"We are interested in the specific route the truck drove," the voice on the investigators' video says in Russian, urging any witnesses who may have seen the truck or the rocket system "to inform the Joint Investigation Team."

Loads,loads of BS as rest of the article.If JIT is actually interesting of truth(it is not) all they have to check ukranian sites-more than enough pictures of the same BUK N 312 with ukr soldiers proudly sitting next to it.Same BUK currently at airport next to Kramatorsk.Or JIT can ask any country with military satelites over Ukraine to help them locate BUK .That is if a big big IF JIT is even remotely interested from facts,truth and who exactly downed MH-17 which they are not.

 

[Hindustani78]

Loads,loads of BS as rest of the article.If JIT is actually interesting of truth(it is not) all they have to check ukranian sites-more than enough pictures of the same BUK N 312 with ukr soldiers proudly sitting next to it.Same BUK currently at airport next to Kramatorsk.Or JIT can ask any country with military satelites over Ukraine to help them locate BUK .That is if a big big IF JIT is even remotely interested from facts,truth and who exactly downed MH-17 which they are not.

Its from the Dutch public prosecutor's office

 

[Hindustani78]

Mayor Pieter Boertjes (C) of Hilversum looks as the remains of Dutch victims of the MH17 plane crash arriving at Korporaal van Oudheusdenkazerne in Hilversum on March 28. Three more coffins with remains arrrived from the Ukrainian city of Kharkiv to Eindhoven military airport in the Netherlands for identification at the military installation in Hilversum.
© AFP

 

[Penguin]

Loads,loads of BS as rest of the article.If JIT is actually interesting of truth(it is not) all they have to check ukranian sites-more than enough pictures of the same BUK N 312 with ukr soldiers proudly sitting next to it.Same BUK currently at airport next to Kramatorsk.Or JIT can ask any country with military satelites over Ukraine to help them locate BUK .That is if a big big IF JIT is even remotely interested from facts,truth and who exactly downed MH-17 which they are not.

Perhaps you should familiarize yourself sometime with the international agreements and protocols in this respect: it is moreoften then not prescribed by treaty how gets to be on an investigative team and in what role. Rather than excrete verbal diarhea each time someone post something.

 

[Galad]

Perhaps you should familiarize yourself sometime with the international agreements and protocols in this respect: it is moreoften then not prescribed by treaty how gets to be on an investigative team and in what role. Rather than excrete verbal diarhea each time someone post something.

Both you and your friend Hindustani should familiarize with them.In what threaty there is a clause for country to be on board and have a vetto at any and all information released?In what threaty there is a clause the country who did nothing to stop civilian traffic over war-zone is invited with vetto power?Ah yeah since you obviously miss it-Ukraine has already shot down civilian plane before and refused to admit it for months.Both of you instead posting propaganda should start asking yourself some questions and engage withs something called thinking at your own instead to copy/paste nonse of so-called truth-loving media.Actually forget about it-it goes against your narrative:Russia - did it.Ukraine-innoncent.Ah piece of reality for both of you-JIT is working also at version MH-17 was destroyed by air-to-air missle.But you will tell me BUK is using air-to-air misslies now right?

 

[Penguin]

I've not taken up any position on who did what. That is just your contention.

As for treaties, done already (6 months ago) e.g. Flight MH17 - What You're Not Being Told | Page 4

And you and I have had this discussion already 6 months ago
The untold story of Malaysian Airlines MH17

 

[Superboy]

Evidence is not proof. Proof is evidence. There is a fundamental different between them. Testimonials are evidence, not proof, because people can lie.

 

[Hindustani78]

Both you and your friend Hindustani should familiarize with them.In what threaty there is a clause for country to be on board and have a vetto at any and all information released?In what threaty there is a clause the country who did nothing to stop civilian traffic over war-zone is invited with vetto power?Ah yeah since you obviously miss it-Ukraine has already shot down civilian plane before and refused to admit it for months.Both of you instead posting propaganda should start asking yourself some questions and engage withs something called thinking at your own instead to copy/paste nonse of so-called truth-loving media.Actually forget about it-it goes against your narrative:Russia - did it.Ukraine-innoncent.Ah piece of reality for both of you-JIT is working also at version MH-17 was destroyed by air-to-air missle.But you will tell me BUK is using air-to-air misslies now right?

Here its about the lives of those innocent people who were dead. Investigation is going on and according to that only there are reports that Air traffic controllers of both Ukraine and Russia were aware about that plane was flying over that area.

Dutch Investigation is asking for witnesses regarding the BUK system. By the way fighting is still going on around the crash site.

Access to MH17 crash site still dangerous due to shelling by militants – Defense Ministry

Access to the Malaysian Airlines Flight MH17 crash site in Donetsk region is still dangerous as the separatist militants don't observe the ceasefire, Deputy Defense Minister of Ukraine, Chief of Staff, Petro Mekhed has said.

According to the ministry's website, Mekhed said this during a meeting with the special envoy on foreign issues of the Dutch Council for Transportation Security Adrian Jakobovits de Szeged in Kyiv on Wednesday.

"Mekhed said that the area where Malaysian Airlines Flight MH17 was downed is completely under the militants' control. As they don't observe the conditions of the ceasefire, access to the crash site remains problematic and dangerous," reads the statement.

Mehked confirmed the readiness of Ukraine to support the investigation into the disaster, adding that the Defense Ministry "does its best to ensure the work of international experts in order to create an objective picture of the tragedy, to find and punish those guilty."

According to the preliminary results of the international investigation, the plane was downed after being hit by an external object, most likely a rocket. The Ukrainian government has said that flight MH17 was downed by a Buk missile system, delivered to the militants from Russia.

 

[Penguin]

Evidence is not proof. Proof is evidence. There is a fundamental different between them. Testimonials are evidence, not proof, because people can lie.

stfu

 

[Hindustani78]

Malaysian experts heading to Ukraine for new examination of MH17 crash site
11.04.2015
A team of seven experts of the Royal Malaysian Police left for Kyiv on Saturday morning in order to resume the search for new evidence and the debris of the crashed Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 (flight MH17), which is believed to have been downed in Donbas in July 2014, according to Malaysian media.

The team includes experts on disaster victims identification and investigators. They plan to get to the scene of the tragedy on Tuesday, April 14, along with members of the international investigation group from the Netherlands and Ukraine.

It is expected that the Malaysian experts will stay in Donetsk for two to three weeks.

As reported, a Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 which was flying from Amsterdam, the Netherlands to Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia with the flight number MH17, crashed in separatists-controlled territory of Donbas on July 17, 2014.

All 298 people on board were killed. They included 192 Dutch citizens (one also had U.S. citizenship), 44 Malaysians, including the 15 crew members, 27 Australians, 12 Indonesians, ten Britons (one also had South African citizenship), four Germans, four Belgians, three Filipinos, one Canadian and one New Zealander.

According to the preliminary results of the international investigation, the plane was downed after being hit by an external object, most likely a rocket. The Ukrainian government believes that flight MH17 was downed by a Buk missile system, delivered to the militants from Russia.

 

[ptldM3]

Evidence is not proof. Proof is evidence. There is a fundamental different between them. Testimonials are evidence, not proof, because people can lie.

stfu

 

[Penguin]

Definition of proof in English:
noun
Evidence or argument establishing a fact or the truth of a statement:



proof - definition of proof in English from the Oxford dictionary

 

[ptldM3]

Definition of proof in English:
noun
Evidence or argument establishing a fact or the truth of a statement:



proof - definition of proof in English from the Oxford dictionary

I am not arguing what the difference between proof and evidence is. I got a good laugh out of your response in post #56.