Drone Arms Race: The Great Sky Game in the Middle East

[Ansu fati]

agreed, well the reason i said that was because Bayraktar TB2 is the go to drone every time Turkey needs one much like Shahed-129 is for Iran.

interesting the Aksungur is very similar to Iran's Fotros class UAVs

Bayraktar TB2 is indeed the most efficient choice for TAF because it has good kill rate and its much cheaper to operate than Anka However this doesn’t mean that Anka can’t strike i have already posted for those who claim otherwise I think the reaason turkish army prefers Bayraktar TB2 besides the low economical cost is that this tactical drone was used as a testing platform for the much much strategic UCAV(Akinci) also the ecosystem is very important thing because same company is behind Akinci and TB2 this means that acceptance period before being put into active duty will be very short
Goksungur will be launched in 2020 it’s actually supersonic version of Aksungur
Should be ready in 2021 but we will see this year when officials reveal more information

 

[skyshadow]

Bayraktar TB2 is indeed the most efficient choice for TAF because it has good kill rate and its much cheaper to operate than Anka However this doesn’t mean that Anka can’t strike i have already posted for those who claim otherwise I think the reaason turkish army prefers Bayraktar TB2 besides the low economical cost is that this tactical drone was used as a testing platform for the much much strategic UCAV(Akinci) also the ecosystem is very important thing because same company is behind Akinci and TB2 this means that acceptance period before being put into active duty will be very short
Goksungur will be launched in 2020 it’s actually supersonic version of Aksungur
Should be ready in 2021 but we will see this year when officials reveal more information

from where do Turkey plans to get engines needed for supersonic Goksungur ?

 

[dBSPL]

from where do Turkey plans to get engines needed for supersonic Goksungur ?

My personal guess, there are two or three possibilities. The strongest possibility is to use TEI's TS1400 core. Turkey has provided a success far beyond the predictions in this area. Because there are not enough English articles on this subject, it is not known by wide circles. Low probabilities that the cooperation with Ukraine's Ivchenko or temporarily use one of the available engines in the inventory.

 

[skyshadow]

My personal guess, there are two or three possibilities. The strongest possibility is to use TEI's TS1400 core. Turkey has provided a success far beyond the predictions in this area. Because there are not enough English articles on this subject, it is not known by wide circles. Low probabilities that the cooperation with Ukraine's Ivchenko or temporarily use one of the available engines in the inventory.

I do not think so, nothing shorter than turbojet engine will make that big and heavy drone reach supersonic speeds that drone is like F-5 i do not now maybe it's my lack of knowledge on Turkish engines for the engines i think 3 options one a domestically built engine powerful enough to power that drone or importing one or reusing engines from one of your old F-4s that's my guess.

this will not do the job

this will do it so you need a engine at least this big

 

[Mithridates]

I do not think so, nothing shorter than turbojet engine will make that big and heavy drone reach supersonic speeds that drone is like F-5 i do not now maybe it's my lack of knowledge on Turkish engines for the engines i think 3 options one a domestically built engine powerful enough to power that drone or importing one or reusing engines from one of your old F-4s that's my guess.

this will not do the job

this will do it so you need a engine at least this big

to be honest even owj can't bring that drone to SS speed. i mean a flying wing design with super sonic speed??

 

[dBSPL]

Do you know anything about the wing form of the Göksungur? You take the subject to a very speculative point. Even if the project has not yet been officially introduced , We just talk about hypothetical predictions...

What is known about the project is the development of a platform that will carry turbojet and possibly co-operate with manned aircrafts because its supersonic ability underlined everytime. Partly from the Hurjet but mainly the avionic infrastructures developed in the Aksungur project will be used. The first flight will be in 2020, which means that the detailed design of the aircraft has been completed.

Regarding the engine, what I'm talking about is core design. In the years 2020 and 2021 you will meet many TEI products. Because the critical threshold in design capabilities and manufacturing technologies has been exceeded.

With TEI-TUBITAK partnership, the ability of casting of turbine blades with single crystal and directed solidification and polycrystalline casting of large diameter turbine parts by using nickel based superalloys was acquired. This process was a critical phase in which some countries were blocked for more than a decade. TEI is capable of manufacturing layered nickel alloy, titanium casting and superplastic forming for titanium alloys; a proven company among the main suppliers of global engine manufacturing companies/organizations such as EPI and GE. Since 2004, company mainly focussed on the design capabilities. Also, TEI currently has the best R & D team in Turkey. If you know what the core engine means and if you have some technical knowledge of the TS1400, we can discuss about how this gives you ability to derivative options.Partly related to this; currently , TEI continues to develop several domestic turbojet, turboprop and turbofan engines.

If I go back to the topic; using an older engine in this project is probably a 1% probability. The reason I wrote this above is to reveal all possibilities. Otherwise, it is almost certain that the project will emerge with a new generation engine.

 

[skyshadow]

to be honest even owj can't bring that drone to SS speed. i mean a flying wing design with super sonic speed??

it will make it reach to mach 1, depends on weight and size of the UAV, but with 2 owj engines it will go even faster close or even mach 2 if im not wrong.

Do you know anything about the wing form of the Göksungur? You take the subject to a very speculative point. Even if the project has not yet been officially introduced , We just talk about hypothetical predictions...

What is known about the project is the development of a platform that will carry turbojet and possibly co-operate with manned aircrafts because its supersonic ability underlined everytime. Partly from the Hurjet but mainly the avionic infrastructures developed in the Aksungur project will be used. The first flight will be in 2020, which means that the detailed design of the aircraft has been completed.

Regarding the engine, what I'm talking about is core design. In the years 2020 and 2021 you will meet many TEI products. Because the critical threshold in design capabilities and manufacturing technologies has been exceeded.

With TEI-TUBITAK partnership, the ability of casting of turbine blades with single crystal and directed solidification and polycrystalline casting of large diameter turbine parts by using nickel based superalloys was acquired. This process was a critical phase in which some countries were blocked for more than a decade. TEI is capable of manufacturing layered nickel alloy, titanium casting and superplastic forming for titanium alloys; a proven company among the main suppliers of global engine manufacturing companies/organizations such as EPI and GE. Since 2004, company mainly focussed on the design capabilities. Also, TEI currently has the best R & D team in Turkey. If you know what the core engine means and if you have some technical knowledge of the TS1400, we can discuss about how this gives you ability to derivative options.Partly related to this; currently , TEI continues to develop 4 different domestic engine programs.

If I go back to the topic; using an older engine in this project is probably a 1% probability. The reason I wrote this above is to reveal all possibilities. Otherwise, it is almost certain that the project will emerge with a new generation engine.

i see your points yes all we do here at this stage is predicting so we will not go to details but that TS1400 need an bigger model with afterburner at lest for it to go mach 1

 

[Mithridates]

Do you know anything about the wing form of the Göksungur?

you posted this and this made me confused.

 

[MMM-E]

Iranian UCAVs dont have SATCOM , AESA Radar , Artificial Intelligence technology , Air to Air combat capability and of course strategic strike capability with Cruise Missile


Thanks to state of the art Turkish AKINCI UCAV with SATCOM , AESA Radar , Artificial Intelligence technology , Air to Air combat capability and strategic strike capability with SOM Cruise Missile

Turkey has enough technology to develop MIUS and GOKSUNGUR superconic UCAVs with capacity payload of 1.000 kg to carry AESA Radar + SATCOM + SOM Cruise Missile for SEAD / DEAD roles

and TS-1400 is a gas turbine engine which can be turned to turbofan engine to power MIUS and GOKSUNGUR supersonic UCAVs

Turkey always develops superior weapons in the region .... step by step

 

[xbat]

Mr Kotil stated new plane would have a turbojet engine, may be he only implies it wouldnt not be a propelled aircraft. We do not know yet but there is a possibility to have a turbofan variant of our TS1400. 2 of them would be suitable for our supersonic wingman aircraft.

from aviation Turkey magazine
"Among the main purposes of the Turboshaft Engine Development Project (TEDP) is the establishment of a gas turbine engine design and the development of infrastructure and the knowledge to facilitate such a development process.
Thus, the core technology of the TS1400 Engine shall also form the basis for the indigenous turbofan engine
(in 8,500lbf to 9,500lbf thrust class) needed for the HURJET New Generation Advanced Jet Trainer (AJT) & the Light Attack Aircraft Development Project, and it will be possible to develop the national aircraft engine
when needed, upon any necessary technological additions to the capabilities gained under the TEDP. "

 

[IblinI]

Iranian UCAVs dont have SATCOM , AESA Radar , Artificial Intelligence technology , Air to Air combat capability and of course strategic strike capability with Cruise Missile


Thanks to state of the art Turkish AKINCI UCAV with SATCOM , AESA Radar , Artificial Intelligence technology , Air to Air combat capability and strategic strike capability with SOM Cruise Missile

Turkey has enough technology to develop MIUS and GOKSUNGUR superconic UCAVs with capacity payload of 1.000 kg to carry AESA Radar + SATCOM + SOM Cruise Missile for SEAD / DEAD roles

and TS-1400 is a gas turbine engine which can be turned to turbofan engine to power MIUS and GOKSUNGUR supersonic UCAVs

Turkey always develops superior weapons in the region .... step by step

So glad to see you back from a month banned! Allowed me to introduced one of our latest toy.
WZ-08 Near space supersonic reconnaissance drone,flying at the heights between 20KM to 50KM,deployed and in actual missions around East and South China sea.

 

[cabatli_53]

Totally 40 PD-170 turbo diesel engines will be delivered to TAI. They are going to be integrated on Anka and Aksungur drones. 13 of them delivered !

PD-170 engines had made its maiden flight with Anka in December 2018. Contrary to German Thielert engines (150hp), PD-170 engines generate 90hp power in 40000 ft altitude.

 

[dBSPL]

first turkey drone key system such as engine and gps navigation depends on western countries,

Compare turkey’s drone to Chinese drones in terms of quality and quantity is ridiculous, it’s like compare a poor peasant house to a billionaire house

No. You need to update your information on this. There is no critical dependency anymore. For the first blocks of relevant drones, It's more about using off-the-shelf products for cost control, which is what China is doing all of its export products. These systems are not very complex technologies, and China is not beyond the reach of the world in this regard. What makes the difference in this field is not the tactical/MALE drones alone, the design of the whole system and how this whole system is militarily doctrinated.


In this sense, we cannot say that China's after-sales services are very successful.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1494061057563930628

'Billionaire' is using rotax 9xx on its MALE aircrafts which its 912 variant also used in 'poor peasant's' tactical drones...

By the way, this is the 16th Chinese origin MALE aircraft that Saudi Arabia lost (at least), which reflected in open sources. In addition to KSA, such as UAE, Egypt, Sudan, Libya(LNA), Iraq, Algeria; When we consider the whole geography on a larger scale, this was at least the 56th Chinese plane that fell on our Arab brothers. Continuing with your analogy, I think the billionaire house here should be Arab states, who bought these planes.

@Oublious

 

[Oublious]

No. You need to update your information on this. There is no critical dependency anymore. For the first blocks of relevant drones, It's more about using off-the-shelf products for cost control, which is what China is doing all of its export products. These systems are not very complex technologies, and China is not beyond the reach of the world in this regard. What makes the difference in this field is not the tactical/MALE drones alone, the design of the whole system and how this whole system is militarily doctrinated.


In this sense, we cannot say that China's after-sales services are very successful.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1494061057563930628

'Billionaire' is using rotax 9xx on its MALE aircrafts which its 912 variant also used in 'poor peasant's' tactical drones...

By the way, this is the 16th Chinese origin MALE aircraft that Saudi Arabia lost (at least), which reflected in open sources. In addition to KSA, such as UAE, Egypt, Sudan, Libya(LNA), Iraq, Algeria; When we consider the whole geography on a larger scale, this was at least the 56th Chinese plane that fell on our Arab brothers. Continuing with your analogy, I think the billionaire house here should be Arab states, who bought these planes.

@Oublious

you are right, ther industry is not based on millitair doctrine. Looks like more company making things and thats why they are not the top. People are not only buying weapons but service and millitair alliance. Thats why KSA is asking for drones, remember what RTE told.

 

[TheSolution]

No. You need to update your information on this. There is no critical dependency anymore. For the first blocks of relevant drones, It's more about using off-the-shelf products for cost control, which is what China is doing all of its export products. These systems are not very complex technologies, and China is not beyond the reach of the world in this regard. What makes the difference in this field is not the tactical/MALE drones alone, the design of the whole system and how this whole system is militarily doctrinated.


In this sense, we cannot say that China's after-sales services are very successful.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1494061057563930628

'Billionaire' is using rotax 9xx on its MALE aircrafts which its 912 variant also used in 'poor peasant's' tactical drones...

By the way, this is the 16th Chinese origin MALE aircraft that Saudi Arabia lost (at least), which reflected in open sources. In addition to KSA, such as UAE, Egypt, Sudan, Libya(LNA), Iraq, Algeria; When we consider the whole geography on a larger scale, this was at least the 56th Chinese plane that fell on our Arab brothers. Continuing with your analogy, I think the billionaire house here should be Arab states, who bought these planes.

@Oublious

I hope Pakistan is aware of this..