Dr. Qadeer responsible for N-proliferation: Musharraf

[Aamir Hussain]

I really didn't know anything about this; Plz someone provide me sources here. I have read lot about this scandal but still I may be faulty...

Sir you should start from Wikkipedia and the AQ Khan page (though I personally take all of it with a grain of salt for obvious reasons but it is start). There are snaps of the alleged material supplied by AQK network to Libya.

I will try posting material on it from my research in coming days for your benefit.

 

[Aamir Hussain]

Shame on u, These pics r taken from India not from Pakistan (Balochistan). Look at the bill boards behind the people.



In above pic Indian terrorist was killed and his jacket is taken off by security man. Wt u wana prove ?

This post is totally out of context and in bad taste. The obvious reason is flame.

if one can not contibute anything to the discussion than one should remain as a silent observer and learn.

 

[Hawkeye]

Hi,

It has nothing to do with Musharraf---I know about A Q Khan's issues indirectly, before most of you on this board were born---before Musharraf came into the limelight---does it make me any better---no---just makes me as someone who had a little inside information.

What Musharraf stated is rigt---A Q had a carte Blanche---in his hey day---he was a god----.

What Musharraf is telling you is---people wake up and open your eyes and listen with an open mind---A Q is not what he portrayed himself to be.

A Q can rhetorically deny all this---but technically he cannot---it is material science---it is there for people to see the process---.

And there is no metallurgist in the world who is the pioneer to a nuclear program anywhere in the world.

Stop worshiping people----please don't create people with bigger imagegs than GOD and bigger following than GOD.

This hero worship of A Q Khan shows----how incompetent my nation is---how much dearth of real talent is out there in the country---for they are running around to make somebody bigger than lifem, give him an image bigger than god---out of ETHNIC SUPERIORITY---.

Some pakistanis make him look like the SUPER HERO from the indian movie---.

NEXT TIME YOU WANT TO GET YOUR MOTORCYCLE ENGINE OVERHAUL---TAKE IT TO YOUR I T GUY.

Outsiders don't understand pakistan's system---paks worshipped A Q----he was a god---nobody dare say anything to him---nobody had any authority to check his stuff---he had created such a hold on the adminstration through PEOPLE POWER that nobody dare touch him.

To my indian colleagues, it is not a matter of reasoning that no other govt would allow such a thing to happen---because reasoning are flawed at times and you can only reason with what you know, what you have read or see or what you may assume or presume it to be, based on your experience and heresay.

Let me ask you indian friends---if Zardari as who he is was an indian---would you allow him to be your president----I guess not---you know why---because you are different than us in that sense. People like Zardari can never be at the pinnacle of indian politics---they may be at a lower level---.

It is about time that paks started listening and understanding what is being said rather than a knee jerk reaction.

Well said MK.
Perhaps a thought here - AQ could have been the fall guy for Politicians who screwed up ? In following, he took responsibility for the Nations shame cased by some Politicians who earlier screwed up on N-prof. In this case he would definately be a man to admire, though for a different reason....

 

[nightcrawler]

Sir you should start from Wikkipedia and the AQ Khan page (though I personally take all of it with a grain of salt for obvious reasons but it is start). There are snaps of the alleged material supplied by AQK network to Libya.

I will try posting material on it from my research in coming days for your benefit.

With all due respect; we can't believe Wiki of Newyork Posts for details upon AQK.....
I have seen much documentaries from West & had read books from their side>>>believe me they are full of ****.
Rather one must read books from authors that were actually involved in this struggle for Nuclear Bomb. (like the link I have given you ).

One must get ascertain that how many lies were laid down by western sources upon Iraq/Afghan invasion; but thnx to the WikiLeaks

 

[MastanKhan]

Well said MK.
Perhaps a thought here - AQ could have been the fall guy for Politicians who screwed up ? In following, he took responsibility for the Nations shame cased by some Politicians who earlier screwed up on N-prof. In this case he would definately be a man to admire, though for a different reason....

Hi,

There was no such thing like that----pak politicians are not that brilliant to make up a world class scam---they can only steal from the helpless pakistanis.

Look at A Q's statements---he doesn't sound like the fall guy---he is coming out aswinging---it is still about me me me ( ie about him )---.

Here is the man who had reporters on his payroll to write articles about his greatness and virtues all the time---.

And what nation's shame---there is no nation's shame over here---it is just the consequences that are a problem.

If it was a shame---then all the major nations of the world alongwith your's and mine would have drowned by now in their tears of guilt of what they have done to others, if there was any conscence left.

 

[Aamir Hussain]

With all due respect; we can't believe Wiki of Newyork Posts for details upon AQK.....
I have seen much documentaries from West & had read books from their side>>>believe me they are full of ****.
Rather one must read books from authors that were actually involved in this struggle for Nuclear Bomb. (like the link I have given you ).

One must get ascertain that how many lies were laid down by western sources upon Iraq/Afghan invasion; but thnx to the WikiLeaks

My friend, both sides of a story should be taken before a judgement is made. Basing one's opinion's solely on statements made those who were involved in the "Scams" is prejudiced at best otherwise, we won a resounding victory in Kargil, 65' and 71'-- if we go by some of our published accounts instead of a more balanced view of a betrayal, stalemate, and a defeat respectively!

Great nations learn from their mistakes but alas, from our perspective we have never made one -- it is others who have done it to us. Wonder why we are in a mess today -- may be because we never analyse things dispassionately and as a consequence never correct our mistakes hence the mess.

The bottom line is as I see it. We got away with stealing/cajoling nuclear secrets as long as we could -- we did barter deals to enhance our technical base -- so be it --but the fact remains, it was illegal according to current international law. However, once we were caught with our hands in the cookie jar (in this the hand was that of AQK)-- there was and is no escape-- someone had to take the fall -- it cannot be the state or an institution otherwise our whole national effort on weapons technology would have been in jeopardy.

In fact due to AQK's frequent rantings Western media gets a lot of juicy stuff right from the President of Pakistan's' (Ishaq Khan to Mushi) involvement to that of the ARMY through Mirza Aslam Baig. This irresponsible behavior of AQK is slowly building a solid case against the state of Pakistan -- the last act is yet to be played and Mr. AQK would be the producer of it, I am afraid. He is putting his ego before his country -- a sad ending for a national hero fallen from grace.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Thank you Qadeer/Qadir khan for your country we appreciate your hard work THANK YOU ...IF IT WAS NOT you and others we would be like iraq but now we are free and no one can touch our free state

so once again thank you for you good WORK

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

Hi,

What do you think---did we not have american blessings in getting our nucs---in a way we did---!

The U S also understood that there needed to be a balance of power in the sub continent---but just because they allowed us to get the option didnot mean our guy had the carte blanche to to give it to someone else.

Ask your self---why does iran need a nuc----who does he have a problem with in the immediate neighbourhood----or why does Libya need a nuc---which one of their neighbours is bigger than them and ready to destroy them---none.

Then why did they need a nuc---only for the acts of terror---pakistan was already in a tight spot after the sanctions being imposed by the U S---what was the need for the sale by AQ----money and money only----he sold them outdated 2 class centrifuges---they found out----got pissed off and blew the whistle on him---that is one consideration---other is that libya could not handle the pressure from the U S anymore---Qadaffi's sons wanted to get out from under the cloud of sanctions---they wanted to give something big in return for the removal of sanctions----what better than their fledgling nuc program---.

I think that was a game setup by the libyans in the first place----the sanctions had hurt them real real bad---they wanted a way out---. Somebody came up with the idea---okay let us do something different---let us start up a superficial nuc program---let us buy some stuff from here and thre---there will come a time when the superpowers will look at it with concern and put pressure on us to stop the progress---then we will ask them to take away our sanctions and sell us what we need and we will give you the name of the people we dealt with and we will roll back the rogram and give you all the equipment.

It worked very well for libya----A Q thought he had suckered the libyans with his third rate centrifues----but the libyans got the last laugh on expense of pakistan's foreign policy.

Why does iran need a nuc bomb---for what reasons---to threaten pakistan----did A Q had his head up in the dark whole when he sold to iran---didn't he know that iran is no friend of pakistan but on the surface---.

Bottomline----a terrible terrible mistake by A Q----a big error in judgement.

You see---these things don't come out when every thing is going okay----but when some issues raise their ugly head---all the scum starts to come afloat to the surface.

After 9/11 pakistan should have understood the siognificance of what was supposed to be coming---hard and bad times with bad tidings---.

Do some of you think that we should have killed al qaeda at tora bora on our side of gthe slopes.

Good post... Also we should add that the neocons had Libya on their hit list of countries for regime change too... Britain helped Libya avoid that completely...

As for America knew about our nuc program... Of course they did but they were never in favor of it... They looked the other way at that time because we were helping Afghans engage the Soviets in Afghanistan...

As long as we acknowledge the AQ has helped Pakistan in its nuc program we should not bother about what other countries are telling us to do with him... If it had not been for public pressure Musharaf would have sold AQ to America as the humble slave that he is already!!!!

 

[Frankenstein]

India does not have an operational nuclear device till today.
All test had been proven dud.

YouTube - Indian nuclear test failure - Part 1

^^Just look at the test site.... do you think an atom bomb has been exploded here?


Now look at real nuclear explosion test.
YouTube - Pakistan nuclear test - ????????

didnt knew, they have been playing with us for that long

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

Malik Sahib:

While I respect your tirade -- you did not answer the question put to you by Khan Sahib-- what would you have done differently on the eve of 9/11 when the sole remaininig super power was attacked and the trail led to our backyard or shall I say our fifth province?????

It would be quite refreshing if once in while we back up our outbursts with some real alternatives - it will help this debate and who knows you can have some converts.

Thanks.

1. Announce the re establishment of Khilafah
2. Abolish Capitalist economics
3. Default on IMF/World Bank Loans
4. Announce the Durand Line to be null and void and that an American attack on Afghanistan would be considered an attack on Pakistan itself.
5. In case of an American attack on Pakistan, announce Jihad e Akbar against the US of A with a fight till death for the whole army of Pakistan.
6. Declare war on India with blatant threats of being ready to exchange nukes.
7. And announce that we are ready to support US of A in a time when they were attacked in such a manner. Announce that if America wishes to co operate with us, we could hunt down Al Qaeda and Bin Laden. This would have put the Americans in a tremendous political pressure, not to go to war against Pakistan when we were offering support to them. The leader of the nation could have wished to address the American public directly by using cable news services within the United States and assured them of his support but urging the American public not to allow their government to react in anger and haste!!!! You would have had the entire America on the streets demanding its government not to go to war with Pakistan.
8. Ready the nukes for in enough quantity to assure complete annihilation of India and Israel as well as attempting to nuke American fleets if they decided to approach Pakistani coast.

There is more to the whole situation. I find myself in this ludicrous situation where I have to keep pointing out to our "wise and intelligent" posters here who ask this question "what could have Musharaf done"... He could have done a lot better than allowing the FBI more than 40 offices to operate freely in Pakistan!!!!

Sher ki aik din ki zindagi geedar ki so saal ki zindagi se behtar hay.

And before people start accusing me of being emotional... I would like to draw their attention to one final point... Pakistan is not Iraq... we do not have the oil that Iraq has... You would be a fool to think that America would even consider going to a useless battle and devote so many resources to the Pakistani front and even risk a simultaneous nuclear annihilation of India, Pakistan and possibly Israel too? To occupy or destroy a country like Pakistan (which till its very end is offering friendship and support to an old ally)... What good would America get in bombing Pakistan or even occupying say Peshawar for heaven sake?

All this scenario is obviously impossible when you have military leaders who bow to America or Britain five times a day!!!!

As for the topic... Listen to what AQK is saying... Leave me alone, I am not incharge of the nuke program anymore!!!!

 

[imiimmad]

Don't know whether or not musharaf is an abnormal kind of person but i do know this, if someone else,or a democratic govt,or the current govt had been in his place Pakistan's nueclear assets,Dr A.Q khan and God knows what else would have been under american control without the entire nation getting even the slightest of suspicion.

 

[imiimmad]

Think of what would have had happened if the current govt. was inplace of musharaf.
Would they pin everything on khan and let the americans shutdown and take over our nuke assets or would they risk their own repu and stand against the americans
the former i believe

 

[imiimmad]

Pakistan is a nation destined for total eternel glory
The only thing in our way is our ownselves

 

[BATMAN]

Nuclear Ring Was More Advanced Than Thought, U.N. Says

By Joby Warrick
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, September 13, 2008

The nuclear smuggling ring headed by Pakistani scientist Abdul Qadeer Khan possessed a broader range of secret nuclear designs than was previously known and shared them electronically among members of the network, a U.N. watchdog group said yesterday.

A report by the International Atomic Energy Agency also acknowledged large gaps in investigators' understanding of the smuggling ring, raising concerns that Khan's nuclear black market may have had additional customers whose identities remain unknown.

"Much of the sensitive information coming from the network existed in electronic form, enabling easier use and dissemination," the Vienna-based agency stated in an internal report, copies of which were obtained by several news outlets and nonprofit groups. Among the key documents, the report said, were instructions for making enriched uranium, and "more disturbingly, information related to nuclear weapons design." U.S. and U.N. officials have previously confirmed that blueprints for at least two types of nuclear weapons were found on computers owned by Swiss businessmen associated with Khan.

Yesterday's report summarized the IAEA's five-year investigation into Libya's former weapons program, which the country's leader officially renounced in 2003. Libya acknowledged being a longtime customer of Khan's, and it voluntarily turned over evidence, including hundreds of documents, that described the country's business dealings with the Pakistani scientist.

U.S. and IAEA officials say Khan and his partners sold nuclear technology to Libya, North Korea and Iran over nearly 20 years. Libya is believed to have been the biggest customer, having purchased or ordered parts for thousands of centrifuges used to make enriched uranium, as well as bomb designs.

The IAEA report officially gave Libya a clean bill of health, saying that its renunciation of nuclear weapons technology appeared genuine. But it said the process of documenting Libya's nuclear history had turned up troubling new findings about the sophistication of Khan's black-market empire.

The IAEA discovered, for example, that the smuggling ring possessed multiple designs covering nearly every aspect of nuclear weapons development, from uranium processing to "casting and machining and the testing of nuclear weapons components," the agency's report said. Some of the blueprints reflected modern designs that were more advanced than similar drawings Khan is known to shared with Iran, the report stated.

Because many of the documents were digitized, they could be easily distributed. "A substantial amount of sensitive information related to the fabrication of nuclear weapons was available to members of the network," the report said.

The IAEA said it was unable to determine the origin of some of the nuclear material found in Libya. The acknowledgment underscored concerns, long held among nuclear weapons experts, that parts of the network may continue to operate undetected.

"It is naive to think that somehow these guys aren't still doing business," said Jeffrey Lewis, director of the Nuclear Strategy and Nonproliferation Initiative at the New America Foundation. "These networks lay around like a loaded gun for anyone to use."

Khan apologized for his role in the nuclear smuggling ring in 2004, in a statement broadcast on Pakistani television. He has remained under house arrest since then but has not been charged with crimes or made available to U.S. or U.N. officials for questioning.

 

[Aamir Hussain]

1. Announce the re establishment of Khilafah
2. Abolish Capitalist economics
3. Default on IMF/World Bank Loans
4. Announce the Durand Line to be null and void and that an American attack on Afghanistan would be considered an attack on Pakistan itself.
5. In case of an American attack on Pakistan, announce Jihad e Akbar against the US of A with a fight till death for the whole army of Pakistan.
6. Declare war on India with blatant threats of being ready to exchange nukes.
7. And announce that we are ready to support US of A in a time when they were attacked in such a manner. Announce that if America wishes to co operate with us, we could hunt down Al Qaeda and Bin Laden. This would have put the Americans in a tremendous political pressure, not to go to war against Pakistan when we were offering support to them. The leader of the nation could have wished to address the American public directly by using cable news services within the United States and assured them of his support but urging the American public not to allow their government to react in anger and haste!!!! You would have had the entire America on the streets demanding its government not to go to war with Pakistan.
8. Ready the nukes for in enough quantity to assure complete annihilation of India and Israel as well as attempting to nuke American fleets if they decided to approach Pakistani coast.

There is more to the whole situation. I find myself in this ludicrous situation where I have to keep pointing out to our "wise and intelligent" posters here who ask this question "what could have Musharaf done"... He could have done a lot better than allowing the FBI more than 40 offices to operate freely in Pakistan!!!!

Sher ki aik din ki zindagi geedar ki so saal ki zindagi se behtar hay.

And before people start accusing me of being emotional... I would like to draw their attention to one final point... Pakistan is not Iraq... we do not have the oil that Iraq has... You would be a fool to think that America would even consider going to a useless battle and devote so many resources to the Pakistani front and even risk a simultaneous nuclear annihilation of India, Pakistan and possibly Israel too? To occupy or destroy a country like Pakistan (which till its very end is offering friendship and support to an old ally)... What good would America get in bombing Pakistan or even occupying say Peshawar for heaven sake?

All this scenario is obviously impossible when you have military leaders who bow to America or Britain five times a day!!!!

As for the topic... Listen to what AQK is saying... Leave me alone, I am not incharge of the nuke program anymore!!!!

At least some one had an alternative plan in place;-)

My observation:

Point seven and eight sounds like out of Saddam's play book right up to and after the invasion of Kuwait- this is exactly what he did and look where it got him and his country.

Further on point eight -- how do you suppose we will get the Nukes' to Israel -- I am sure the Saudis will help us in it or the Jordanians or we can always bank upon the Egyptians to do it for us??

My friend you are banking the whole plan in a lab like environment where everything and everyone else remains static. This plan of yours requires that the EU, Arabs and the Asian countries remain neutral and silent observers or side with us.

Kindly analyse the situation of Pakistan leading up to 9/11, understand the economic constraints, the readiness and capability of our armed forces to take on any thing bigger or better equipped than India (That too is a far shot), understand the depth of the so called conspiracy against nuclear armed Pakistan, and my friend, truly judge the mood and pulse of the American public right after 9/11 attacks before going across and making plans to take on the world.

Points 1 and 2 -- Some people are already working on that -- the score thus far is 11K Pakistanis!

Point 3 Dewan Group, ARY and many others who gave corporate guarantees in place of sovereign guarantees to bail out Pakistan between 99 and 2001 would have collapsed overnight;-)

Point 4 Is this point out of the GEO cartoon where this one guy comes up with a plan to declare war on US so that they can attack and defeat us and we can benefit from the Marshall Type plans for Germany and Japan after WWII??

IMHO your plan is impractical and has been used once in the past and look where that country is today.

Waiting for a practical option to what Mushi did