Doubtful video showing Army 'abusing' in Swat

[SparklingCrescent]

i still have the video in my desktop.. I jus saw it once, couldnt believe wat i saw... the poor guys they were beating up were all at the age of 50, 60, and 70's... this is jus very sad... I donno butt i jus cant think streight now...

 

[Kasrkin]

Erm maybe 70s is a bit too much. But possibly 50s, yeah.

 

[x_man]

I have seen videos where PA men are slaughtered in numbers by Talibans while chanting A’Akbar and reciting from Quran in the background...Sure many others must have seen those videos too... The treatment they are getting is not even an iota closer to what they did to our own people.

These sickos have raped young girls, killed 1000s, destroyed peoples’ lives / lifelong belongings and traumatized a whole generation in the name of Islam. They are bent upon destroying Pakistan to its core. How can this lot be compared with the people who are fighting for freedom or for their rights ? What rights Talibans are fighting for? OR What good their actions are for Pakistan or its people or even Islam in general? This lot is just pure EVIL and should be treated in the same manner they treat others.

The lot getting beaten in the video may not be Talibans themselves but might have supported them in any way. Could be their informers, might have given them monitory assistance or a place to hide or anything else in their support. PA just won’t pickup on anyone and start kicking their arses until and unless they have a positive lead against them.

Usual or lengthy methods of interrogation are not practical while the operation is still on. If PA needs some info, it needs quick. As for these Talibani idiots, they should only be spoken in the language that they understand.

 

[TexasJohn]

I don't think the Pakistan Army did anything wrong there... sorry if that offended anyone.

Your Army (just like India's, US etc.) was trained for conventional warfare just like most modern armies are. COIN is a completely different ball game to them. They do the best they can, given the circumstances, and the resources they have available.

yes, there will always be videos such as this when it comes to COIN regardless of the country in question, unfortunately.

There will always be the soft hearted and videos such as this will be terrible to them. Sorry, but this is but one face of COIN.

Not to mention the tubby guy (1st guy) didn't seem all that hurt, I almost bet that fella knows a thing or two about who was shooting at the Army. Just a hunch!

 

[tamir]

Please notice something that we are comparing Taliban with our brave soldiers that are giving the ultimate sacrifice for our country.
Please don't give examples that the Taliban did worse etc. We are drawing a comparison by saying that.
I felt disgust when I saw the video and I will explain why... it is not because I saw our Army men beat suspected Taliban or Taliban sympathizers. I'm no fool.. I knew this was probably going on but just watching it on video made me reflect what our country has come to. How polarized the situation has become.
Sad that these religious lunatics feel justified in slaughter innocent civilians in the name of God.
If you go back to any of my older posts ... I've always said that these people are like cancer and need to be removed.

 

[qsaark]

The question remains. Where is the proof that the folks (including the person with white beard) are the terrorists or terrorist sympathizers? Just because they are sporting beards and wearing caps they are terrorists/terrorist sympathizers? Only because they were brought in a Police building they surely know one or two things? Are we saying that the innocents are never framed in the crimes? That innocents are never brought in the Police stations and they are never tortured? Anybody who is ‘detained’ is always a culprit?

They are innocent until proven guilty. And if they are innocent and if they are humiliated like this, even if they were not the terrorists, they surely will become one. Imperialistic mindset of the Americans/EU will never understand this but what has happened to us? Did we not cry a lot on incidents like Abu Gharib and Detention centers in Afghanistan? It was not the occupation alone, it was the mistreatment of the soldiers of the so-called high-moral-standards with their detainees most of whom were absolutely innocent.

PA just won’t pickup on anyone and start kicking their arses until and unless they have a positive lead against them.

Did you read this? http://jang.com.pk/jang/sep2009-daily/03-09-2009/col2.htm. Yes, the action was taken against the NCO but what this suggests? That Army can make mistakes. Beating elderly with belts without a credible proof, is this a right thing to do?

 

[Beskar]

The question remains. Where is the proof that the folks (including the person with white beard) are the terrorists or terrorist sympathizers? Just because they are sporting beards and wearing caps they are terrorists/terrorist sympathizers? Only because they were brought in a Police building they surely know one or two things? Are we saying that the innocents are never framed in the crimes? That innocents are never brought in the Police stations and they are never tortured? Anybody who is ‘detained’ is always a culprit?

Where's your proof that these men were innocent? You don't have any. On the other hand, professional Pakistan Army officers are more than just capable to realize who's innocent and who's guilty. We've been fighting this war for a long time now, and we've been successful so far in eliminating the terrorist elements from our land. That says a lot about the credibility of the Pakistan Army Officers and Jawaans.

Like X_Man said, they're not exactly bringing people out of their homes and beating the day lights out of them. These men were jailed (As we can see from the video) and now they're being questioned because of the reason they LANDED in a military/police jail.

 

[TexasJohn]

Tamir,

I take it you don't like the methods used. How do you think they should have handled it?

 

[Kasrkin]

Where is the proof that the folks (including the person with white beard) are the terrorists or terrorist sympathizers? Just because they are sporting beards and wearing caps they are terrorists/terrorist sympathizers?

Where is the proof that they're NOT terrorists or terrorist sympathizers? They were brought to a police station in the middle of a full fledged anti-insurgency campaign where almost all the civilians have left. That would point towards the direction of them being complicit or involved.

Ofcourse its possible that they're innocent. But until you have some solid info that they were indeed completely innocent you'll have to go with what logic suggests and atleast accept that they're detainees not just random guys from the street who're being 'alienated'.

 

[Patriot]

If that is how a respectable college professor is treated, than little doubt is left about the treatment of 'lesser' folks.

I am a witness of such incidents myself. I have seen how the coast guards near Habb (who are supervised by a regular Army officer of the rank of a Captain) harass the passengers travelling from Quetta to Karachi and openly demand for money if the passengers have to getaway with their goods. There have been several protests and the roads were blocked by the Bus owners and the passengers.

Source: Jang Group Online

You forgot to read the other part
Jang Group Online

 

[qsaark]

You forgot to read the other part
Jang Group Online

No I did not forget anything. But before posting, it is always a good idea to read all the posts and see if the question in your mind is already answered or not.

Please read my post before the current one: "Did you read this? http://jang.com.pk/jang/sep2009-dail...-2009/col2.htm. Yes, the action was taken against the NCO but what this suggests? That Army can make mistakes. Beating elderly with belts without a credible proof, is this a right thing to do?".

 

[TexasJohn]

qsaark / Patriot - do you have an english version of that article? sorry bud..

 

[Patriot]

No I did not forget anything. But before posting, it is always a good idea to read all the posts and see if the question in your mind is already answered or not.

Please read my post before the current one: "Did you read this? http://jang.com.pk/jang/sep2009-dail...-2009/col2.htm. Yes, the action was taken against the NCO but what this suggests? That Army can make mistakes. Beating elderly with belts without a credible proof, is this a right thing to do?".

Well- Mistakes can occur.The soldier was punished by his CO.It is not institutional policy of Pakistan Army..we don't know the other side of story so i don't see how you can prove that the guy beaten in video is innocent. (While using the same logic and saying he is not terrorist)

 

[tamir]

Tamir,

I take it you don't like the methods used. How do you think they should have handled it?

I'm fine with that. My disgust comes from the sad fact what we Pakistanis have to deal with..... the elderly man getting beat... im sorry , that i'm not condoning.

The person recording this video has really damaged our image.... all the bloody media is going to be over it.

This is what war brings out.

This is my opinion so please do not try to justify these action. I support my troops no less than any of you.

 

[qsaark]

qsaark / Patriot - do you have an english version of that article? sorry bud..

No, the columnist does not write in the English newspapers. I can summarize the whole thing for you though:

This is about a person Mr. Anwar Jalal who works as an Assistant Professor in the Government College Pabbi. Mr. Anwar was coming to Peshawar from his hometown Kark in a flying coach. The coach was stopped on the other end of the Darra Adam Khel for a routine inspection by the security forces. There was a Sikh passenger in the coach who was harassed by the security forces even though he had the ID card etc. Professor Anwar told the security guy (who was from FC) politely that if the Sikh fellow had all his documents completed, please let the coach depart. Hearing that, the FC guy got upset and started using foul language. Mr. Anwar replied that a complaint can be made to his superiors about his misbehavior. Upon hearing this, the FC guy got very upset and asked Mr. Jamal to disembark from the coach. Mr. Anwar Jamal kept quite while the other passengers tried to cool the FC guy down.

The Sikh passenger had all his papers and finally the coach was allowed to go. The Driver was about to start when the same FC guy came with an Army soldier. Mr. Anwar though that the Army guy may be his senior and has come only to know what was going on. He shook hand with him and told him about the episode. After hearing all this, the Army guy asked Mr. Anwar about his profession. Mr. Anwar told him that he works as an Assistant Professor in a College. Hearing this, the Army guy asked him to remove his shoes. Mr. Anwar protested that he belongs to an honorable profession and asking him to remove his shoes is insulting. Hearing this, the Army guy started beating him, while in the mean time the other FC fellow also joined him.

The Army guy told Mr. Anwar that he can also be framed in the case of terrorism. After this, he left Mr. Anwar alone. And the story goes on…