#DoubleDhamaka After INS Kochi DDG Indian Navy to Induct INS Kadmatt Stealth ASW Corvette in October

[Spectre]

In that case, we are wasting our money on building ship. Its a defense forum, what do you expect me to post.i am not saying India should fought war, but if war started you have any alternative other than fight .

As i said, these ships are for China to deter it against an attack on Indian interests. India and China won't use nukes - their nuclear threshold is pretty high and if anyone them uses it - it would be a massive first strike aimed to erase the other country from the map. In event of this high nuclear threshold - limited wars become a reality specially away from mainland on seas/oceans.

With Pakistan everything would be up close and personal - A Brawl and nuclear threshold is much lower.

Regards

 

[Chanakya's_Chant]

Pray tell me how do you want to finish a war against a nuclear capable adversary having sufficient nukes to blow India to kingdom come never mind if it will be blown up with us?

Kindly think a bit before you post. @Rau

Just a thought - Isn't there, where a nuclear second-strike capability comes in? A country's assured ability to respond to a nuclear attack with powerful nuclear retaliation against the attacker - It wouldn't be easy for the other side to launch a pre-emptive nuclear strike considering the fact that it does have a credible nuclear second-strike capability?

 

[Rau]

As i said, these ships are for China to deter it against an attack on Indian interests. India and China won't use nukes - their nuclear threshold is pretty high and if anyone them uses it - it would be a massive first strike aimed to erase the other country from the map. In event of this high nuclear threshold - limited wars become a reality specially away from mainland on seas/oceans.

With Pakistan everything would be up close and personal - A Brawl and nuclear threshold is much lower.

Regards

From your post...
"Our naval assets despite improvement are barely a sufficient deterrent for China and I expect majority of them to be deployed on that front to deter Chinese Response in case of Indo-Pak conflict."

Everybody here know that chances of war between China-India is zilch.We are improving the navy just to counter (not fight) Chinese presence in IOR.
Its always better to have bigger gun that your adversary.

 

[Spectre]

Just a thought - Isn't there, where a nuclear second-strike capability comes in? A country's assured ability to respond to a nuclear attack with powerful nuclear retaliation against the attacker - It wouldn't be easy for the other side to launch a pre-emptive nuclear strike considering the fact that it does have a credible nuclear second-strike capability?

Well when Pakistan launches a nuclear strike rest assured it has factored in it's self destruction. Mutually assured destruction is called that for a reason.

Anyway I don't loose much sleep over it, there are enough systemic safe-guards built in to prevent exactly that.

My response was just to wake up the concerned person to the harsh reality that neither India nor Pakistan is going anywhere, we just have to deal with it.

From your post...
"Our naval assets despite improvement are barely a sufficient deterrent for China and I expect majority of them to be deployed on that front to deter Chinese Response in case of Indo-Pak conflict."

Everybody here know that chances of war between China-India is zilch.We are improving the navy just to counter (not fight) Chinese presence in IOR.
Its always better to have bigger gun that your adversary.

Never said otherwise, however having a bigger than China whose economy is multiple of ours is not feasible.

 

[Spectre]

You are again wrong my friend.
In a war submarines are best used for offensive role and not defensive.
What Pakistan is doing is using submarines to protect from naval blockading that means they are going to play a defensive role in India and Pakistan scenario.
India's first line of offence in Pakistan scenario will include 20+ surface fleet of ICG
The second line of offense will form 10 surface fleet of ICG along with one or two ASW corcettes and p8i giving air support in terms of offensive against submarines.
What do you think the submarines can do against such overwhelming numbers of surface fleet?
If they engage ICG fleet then they will be detected and destroyed by P8i and if not then they are on their way to Pakistani ports.

Because using IN fleet will be an overkill and not a feasible idea when you can achieve ASW from air and surface fleet from ICG without risking IN capabilities.

The question is what role the submarines will be playing?
How many platforms Pakistan navy can engage
ASW(AIR)
ASW(SURFACE)
And I am yet to take Indian submarines in to context.
When PN submarines will be busy engaging surface fleets IN submarine will be sitting on Indian bass and making sure that Pakistani cities are getting full dose of SLBMs having 3500 km k 4 range.

What is your point my friend, I know all this and I agree with almost everything.

I said, it is not the best strategy but only one available within constraints.

 

[Rau]

Well when Pakistan launches a nuclear strike rest assured it has factored in it's self destruction. Mutually assured destruction is called that for a reason.

Anyway I don't loose much sleep over it, there are enough systemic safe-guards built in to prevent exactly that.

My response was just to wake up the concerned person to the harsh reality that neither India nor Pakistan is going anywhere, we just have to deal with it.



Never said otherwise, however having a bigger than China whose economy is multiple of ours is not feasible.

I am in my full conscience, thanks but no thanks, no need to wake me up. just stating that if war happen, then we dont have any alternative than fight it. However,any war nuclear or conventional is worst for any state.
About china, we have home advantage and they cant deploy all of navy in IOR (still huge number considering even 50%).

 

[#hydra#]

submarines I think
if picture of smiling Hafiz saeed doesn't do the trick

What about that antiship missiles which sold to PAF by China for jf17,I think against indian naval force PAF will play major role in this scenario than Pakistan navy.

 

[Mike_Brando]

who is talking about countering here?
you misunderstood me ..I am talking about avoiding and distracting the "hunters"

not saying anymore

But don't you think sir that it's about time that the GoP allots an increasing percentage of the defense budget to the P.N. instead of alloting more than half of it to the army??I mean,the P.A. is the strongest of the three services as far as conventional warfare is concerned and can hold it's own against an aggressive I.A.,pretty much the same can be said about the P.A.F.But i am afraid that the same can't be said about the P.N. which is by far the most neglected and weak arm of the Pakistani Armed Forces.If things are not done immediately then there is a chance that history will repeat itself in case of a future war and the P.N. will get badly mauled by it's I.N. counterparts just in 1971.

 

[#hydra#]

But don't you think sir that it's about time that the GoP allots an increasing percentage of the defense budget to the P.N. instead of alloting more than half of it to the army??I mean,the P.A. is the strongest of the three services as far as conventional warfare is concerned and can hold it's own against an aggressive I.A.,pretty much the same can be said about the P.A.F.But i am afraid that the same can't be said about the P.N. which is by far the most neglected and weak arm of the Pakistani Armed Forces.If things are not done immediately then there is a chance that history will repeat itself in case of a future war and the P.N. will get badly mauled by it's I.N. counterparts just in 1971.

It's too late buddy now.PN can't match with IN in near future.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

we got different priorities and scope

dont worry about us. you got a potent force coming from south china sea

But don't you think sir that it's about time that the GoP allots an increasing percentage of the defense budget to the P.N. instead of alloting more than half of it to the army??I mean,the P.A. is the strongest of the three services as far as conventional warfare is concerned and can hold it's own against an aggressive I.A.,pretty much the same can be said about the P.A.F.But i am afraid that the same can't be said about the P.N. which is by far the most neglected and weak arm of the Pakistani Armed Forces.If things are not done immediately then there is a chance that history will repeat itself in case of a future war and the P.N. will get badly mauled by it's I.N. counterparts just in 1971.[/QUOTE

 

[#hydra#]

we got different priorities and scope

dont worry about us. you got a potent force coming from south china sea

PLAN subs lurking in ioc is a real threat,but chance of naval clash between IN & PLAN is very less at least for another three decades.

we got different priorities and scope

dont worry about us. you got a potent force coming from south china sea

Second para of your reply,Are you trying for a troll war or what?

 

[hussain0216]

Pakistans navy is the weakest of our forces

But recently more funds have been allocated

We have 3 AIP subs and 8 more will be added making a total of 11 AIP subs we also have some Older Augusta 70s and midgets but lets not count those

Some of these will also house Pakistans second strike with a Babur based SLBM not too far off

Whilst some surface ships are being added alot more needs to be done


Pakistans coast is much smaller than indias so we can never justify a similar navy but a effective deterrent is in the process of being set up

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

This will become a beast when the ACTAS active towed array sonars are retrofitted into them acquired from atlas elektronik ,germany.

First 6 arrived recently are being fitted -3 on first batch talwars,3 on delhis.
Next batch of 10 on 4 kamorta P-28,3 kolkata and 3 either shivalik/second batch talwars.
Final batch of 20 produced under license,on future main combatants and ASW -vishakhapatnam class,P-28A,P-17A.

The key thing to note in the opening post is IN intends to use them as screen for Carrier battle groups.With an Akula-2 and a Kamorta with ACTAS as the outer screen plus fleet helicopters from inner screen ,IN will be well poised to counter enemy submarines.

 

[Chanakya's_Chant]

But don't you think sir that it's about time that the GoP allots an increasing percentage of the defense budget to the P.N. instead of alloting more than half of it to the army??

Unfortunately it's the same with the Indian Army as well which is allocated 52-53% (over $20 billion) of the total defence budget. The only good thing in case of IN and IAF is that they still get to spend a majority of their allocation on capital expenditures which is unfortunately not the case with the army - In 2015-16, only 20 per cent of Army's budget has been earmarked for capital expenditure. The corresponding figures for the Navy and Air force are 62 and 59 per cent, respectively.

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Indian Defence Budget : How is spent? in Detail?

 

[MilSpec]

Jabardast News .... Thanks for posting..... Kamorta class is an amazing ship....IN rocks..

NEW ANTI-SUB WARSHIP TO JOIN INDIAN NAVY IN OCTOBER
INS KADMATT GETTING A FINAL TOUCH AT GARDEN REACH YARDS IN KOLKATA

File photo of ASW Corvette, INS Kamorta, inducted into Indian Navy in August 2014.
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COME OCTOBER and Indian Navy will get a shot in the arm with a new anti-submarine warship joining its fleet at the eastern coast in Visakhapatnam.

Named INS Kadmatt, the anti-submarine warfare (ASW) corvette, is now at the final stage of furnishing at the Garden Reach Shipbuilders and Engineers Ltd (GRSE) in Kolkata. GRSE began building the warship in 2011.

“The ship is almost ready and will be commissioned into the Indian Navy sometimes in October this year. There will be a handing over ceremony in Kolkata, followed by the actual commissioning ceremony at the Eastern Naval Command in Visakhapatnam about a month later,” GRSE chairman and managing director, Rear Admiral (Retd.) A K Verma told The Statesman on Tuesday.

Kadmatt is the second warship in Project-28 (P28), under which GRSE is building four ASWs for the Navy with 90 per cent indigenous contents and design. The first one ~ INS Kamorta ~ was inducted into the Navy on 23 August last year, and since then has been a major attraction during visits to foreign countries.

“The work on the remaining two ASWs in P-28 ~ Kiltan and Kavaratti~ is also in progress. We will handover them to the Navy in 2016 and 2017, respectively,” Rear Admiral Verma said. All the four ASW corvettes are named after islands in Andaman & Nicobar and Lakshwadweep.

Kadmatt is around 109 metres in length, around 14 metres wide at its maximum bulge and has an approximate displacement of 3,200 tons. Being built at an estimated cost of Rs 3,000-crore, it happens to be a modern warship with advanced stealth features that have very low Radar Cross Section and very low radiated underwater noise.

The ship is equipped with Super Rapid Gun Mounting, Anti-aircraft Guns, Torpedo Launcher, Rocket Launcher and Chaff Launcher as well as early Warning, Navigation, Fire Control Radars, Under-Water Sensors and an integrated Communication facility and Electronic Warfare System.

The Navy plans to deploy Kadmatt as an advance screen for the Carrier Battle Group to counter any submarine threat and it will be a feared platform for lurking enemy submarines and their nemesis within India’s territorial waters. It is expected to play a significant role in Navy’s submarine hunter/killer capabilities.

Kadmatt is powered by four indigenously designed 3,888 KW diesel engines at 1,050 rpm and has an endurance of about 3,450 nautical miles at 18 knots. The ship will be manned by 17 officers and 106 sailors, and can achieve a maximum speed of 25 knots.

Source:- New anti-Sub warship to join Indian Navy in October | MARGINALMATTERS

>> INS Kochi - Second Kolkata-class DDG will be inducted on September 30, 2015.
Indian Navy to induct INS Kochi, its 2nd Kolkata-class destroyer on Sept 30

>> INS Kalvari - First Scorpène-class SSK will be launched for rigorous sea trials on September 30, 2015 from MDL, Mumbai.
India’s Scorpene programme set to enter its most crucial phase: INS Kalvari all set for Sea Trials

>> Away from public glare and pomp, Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar on Wednesday commissioned INS Vajrakosh, a naval station near Karwar in Karnataka.
Now, India has the Largest Naval Base East of the Suez Canal

After the commissioning if INS Vajrakosh which is dubbed to be the Largest Naval Base East of the Suez Canal - the coming months are going to be action packed for the Indian Navy indeed!

Indian navy is very clear and well mannered in what it wants for future needs, from where its wants and its planned acquisitions is going ahead smoothly because IN placed faith in our public sector shipyards. its commendable effort with precious foreign exchange saved because of indigenous made ships and that too with state of art technology

whereas IAF's fondness for foreign mall has reduced HAL to be license made factory since decades and LCA is the latest case where IAF rapidly changed its requirements and the induction of basic MK 1 is getting delayed

The trick is how to take the best practices from the Navy and propagate to rest of the Indian Military. Hopefully this government will be able to set up a defence procurement and development agency.