Doors open for negotiation with US on F-16 deal: Foreign Office

[Desertfalcon]

Hey,
You had mentioned in your previous post that you sent your position, so what was it? do you want us to get the f-16's or are you against it?

I am very much in favour of it. Unfortunately, I got no response from anyone in my state's congressional delegation other than thanking me for my input and one from Sen. Risch saying that he disagreed with me and would be voting against any sale. Mine is definitely the minority opinion here.

Also, is it right to say, since you agreed with desert fighter, that the Americans are responsible for creating the bad blood between us and ruining our relationship? If you feel that is the case, what do you think should be the next steps America should take in improving this relationship?Subsidizing the F-16's is a given, but what else could America do to improve it?

I don't agree that it was all America's fault, to begin with, but I think that my country could do better if we broadened the relationship to include more economic involvement as in trade, jobs, etc. The big problem beyond Pakistan, is that groups like Al Qaeda, ISIS, the Taliban, etc., and their actions, have so soured Islam in America's eyes, that many Americans tend to view any Muslim country with deep suspicion. I think that wrong, but it is the reality.

Also, do you believe that the Pakistan Army had no knowledge of the Osama operation?

No. It took us many years to track him down after the debacle of Tora Bora. He was very, very, careful at hiding and it was by playing a hunch, that even we got him.

The reason i am asking these questions is because i am interested in knowing the American pov, especially yours, since you have mentioned that you are a Republican party official.

I'm a very minor official. I've been a county precinct chairman and treasurer, a delegate to state conventions. I was my party's nominee for my state's assembly though in 2002 but I lost running against a popular incumbent. It gave me street cred though, with my Party.

Yeah right!

Absolutely no chance at all!!




Pakistanis are right! Beware of friendship with America!

The reason there is probably no chance, is that I find it hard to believe that anyone in Pakistan's command structure believes that any future open conventional conflict with India could turn out as a positive for Pakistan. It's just my unemotional, assessment of the reality of the idea, not any bias.

Would Trump do the same Sir? After all he is being voted for exactly the reasons you mentioned above.

It's hard to tell what Trump would actually do and what is just his over-the-top bombastic rhetoric but relations with almost all Muslim countries would turn very cold, under a President Trump. He is very, very, anti-Muslim. I can't imagine a President Trump celebrating Eid al-Fitr in the White House which the current and past American presidents have done.

 

[graphican]

I agree. My country needs to decide if it is interested in having allies from the Muslim world or not. There is virtually no chance, (or at least very little.), that these aircraft would be used against India but there is a 100% chance that they will be used in precision strikes against the enemies of Pakistan, as well as those of Afghanistan, & America.

For what it's worth, I did send my position to my state's congressional delegation. (I am a Republican Party official and do this often on topics that interest me.)

Whats the narrative that F-16s shouldn't be used against India? When selling anything to Indians, do you put condition that those jets, missiles or drones will not be used against Pakistan as well? If its an all out war, both countries will use all they have against each other. Besides its India who has aggressive posture against Pakistan, had brought its army to borders, had sent jets to attack Pakistan and has been violating our air-space persistently. They talk about bombing "Mureedkay" and "Azak Kashmir"

So why is use of hardware against India an angle of thinking now? India may be your business partner, but so is China. Why don't you ever put condition that F-16s shouldn't be used against China? How about Afghanistan and now your new friend Iran?

 

[GoldenRatio1618]

They want to waste PAF Allocated Budget and time and divert PAF attention back to their old stuff instead to go for other Futuristic options this time never see back its enough we have learnt too much.

 

[Path-Finder]

IMO Pakistan should maintain positive relations with the U.S. Sure, you have ups and downs but totally causing the door will ultimately cause more problems for Pakistan.

Believe me, The Indians would love to see Pakistan turn it's back on U.S with closing embassies etc. Youll become the new Iran/North Korea.

Reassuringly, Pakistani government is still pursuing positive relations with U.S.

@Desertfalcon

I am absolutely certain If we closed the embassies and recalled the ambassadors we will not become either Iran or NK. Of all the the downs we faced the yanks could have walked away and placed sanctions like they did in the Past. Pakistan is Faar to important of a nation to be placed on a ignored list by anyone, no matter how hard the indians or their new chums in the principality of Kabul would like to believe in their own fantasy of having us globally isolated.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

I agree. My country needs to decide if it is interested in having allies from the Muslim world or not. There is virtually no chance, (or at least very little.), that these aircraft would be used against India but there is a 100% chance that they will be used in precision strikes against the enemies of Pakistan, as well as those of Afghanistan, & America.

For what it's worth, I did send my position to my state's congressional delegation. (I am a Republican Party official and do this often on topics that interest me.)

I assume you are agreeing to the sale of F-16's. However one or two votes would not matter much in this regards. The issue regarding US - Pakistan relations is it has never been one of mutual friendship. What are the root cause for this kind of relationship can only be found in our history, unfortunately people of Pakistan would never know.

As far as people to people relations with USA are concerned you know very well all students want to study in USA. They also would like to live there unfortunately the system is such that it takes very long for them to acquire a US Passport. What happens after this you know first hand...

Now to answer should USA allies of Muslim World...This is entirely up the Citizens of USA to decide however they should be told the truth and all possible outcomes unlike what we see in UK after the Brixit.

IF i have power i will do it within 3 hours .

Nice dream...

 

[graphican]

I think USA is bending forward this time. Pakistan had stated it clearly that we do not want to spend our money buying these jets and it stood with its line.

As a matter of fact, US foreign policy is influenced by businesses. F-16s future is bleak if it fails to get new orders and who else can they sell F-16s other than Pakistan at this stage. Pakistan can fulfil its need by buying F-16s from alternate resources but USA cannot sell this to other countries. Towards India, USA has some hope but so did French 10 years ago.

 

[Desertfalcon]

Whats the narrative that F-16s shouldn't be used against India. When selling anything to Indians, do you put condition that those jets, missiles or drones will not be used against Pakistan? If its a all out war, both countries will use all they have.

So why is use of hardware against India an angle of thinking the first place? India may be your business partner, but so is China. Why don't you ever put condition that F-16s shouldn't be used against China as well?

Personally, I don't think there should be one. I think it perfectly reasonable to say that the F-16's would be sold based on their 100% likely use against terrorists but should war break out between Pakistan and India, we certainly have no right to tell Pakistan that they can't use weapons in their arsenal that we sold them. That would be idiotic. What has changed though is that while Pakistan's stock has declined in American politicians eyes, (particularly as I mentioned earlier, since the operation against Osama bin-Laden in Pakistan.), India's has increased and India has developed a very effective lobby in the American congress that is starting to rival Israel's. That is why the use of any military hardware against India has a negative effect on our congress.

 

[graphican]

Personally, I don't think there should be one. I think it perfectly reasonable to say that the F-16's would be sold based on their 100% likely use against terrorists but should war break out between Pakistan and India, we certainly have no right to tell Pakistan that they can't use weapons in their arsenal that we sold them. That would idiotic. What has changed though is that while Pakistan's stock has declined in American politicians eyes, (particularly as I mentioned earlier, since the operation against Osama bin-Laden in Pakistan.), India's has increased and India has developed a very effective lobby in the American congress that is starting to rival Israel's. That is why the use of any military hardware against India has a negative effect on our congress.

So you are saying this is a political pollution and you are happy to take it as your brain food? Just read this line few times and you'd know what I mean.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

Personally, I don't think there should be one. I think it perfectly reasonable to say that the F-16's would be sold based on their 100% likely use against terrorists but should war break out between Pakistan and India, we certainly have no right to tell Pakistan that they can't use weapons in their arsenal that we sold them. That would be idiotic. What has changed though is that while Pakistan's stock has declined in American politicians eyes, (particularly as I mentioned earlier, since the operation against Osama bin-Laden in Pakistan.), India's has increased and India has developed a very effective lobby in the American congress that is starting to rival Israel's. That is why the use of any military hardware against India has a negative effect on our congress.

Politics before logic...Very lethal.

 

[Desertfalcon]

So you are saying this is a political pollution and you are happy to take it as your brain food? Just read this line few times and you'd know what I mean.

I don't know what you mean here. I'm just stating what I think the political reality is. I'm saying that just as America's political stock has fallen sharply in Pakistan, Pakistan's stock has fallen sharply with America. I'm not addressing blame nor am I for it. It's just a statement of fact.

At the same time, India has taken advantage of this, particularly under PM Modi, in advancing India's cause with America, touting India's commitment and history in fighting "Islamic extremist terrorism", India's commitment to a diverse and tolerant democracy, etc., and very effectively lobbying our Congress for weapons and economic trade deals. It's just the reality of what has happened.

 

[Blue Marlin]

can you please convey my massage to your congressmen or whatsoever ? we hate USA and we want to cut all of the relations with USA .please stop our aid and weapons common Pakistanis do not need them . our corrupt politicians take all the aid and transfer to Swiss accounts and our forces love US goodies . but we common Pakistanis hate everything belongs to USA. we want to be away from US shadow forever .it may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal .sorry for my poor English i hope you understand

im guessing you dont know how the world works or how much exports go from pakistan to the usa?

 

[CriticalThinker02]

Well, be we you do not mean your country's air force, the government of Pakistan as well as a number of other non-governmental organizations. It is the Pakistan Air Force that requested the F-16 deal, not the USA. It is the government of Pakistan that wants that deal, not most American government officials, apparently. That is why I suggest that you should address them and not us with your concerns. America must deal with the government in power in Islamabad.

Can you please tell your government to stop their war-mongering and invasions etc and please tell them to leave this region alone for at-least the next 50 years, that means no more drone strikes, no more false flags, no more arming of rebels, no more CIA incursions and no more arming of India and Israel with massive WMD's, that would be nice, thank you.

Also if you can please tell them to leave China and south China sea alone, meaning no more provocations there as well, thanks.

 

[Desertfalcon]

Can you please tell your government to stop their war-mongering, invasions and at-least leave this region alone for the next 50 years, that means no drone strikes, no false flags, no CIA incursions and no arming of India and Israel with massive WMD's, that would be nice, thank you.

Also if you could tell please them to leave China and south China sea alone, meaning no more provocations there as well, thanks.

No, because I don't take any post or poster seriously who plays the oh-so-tiresome, "all our problems are big, mean, ole', America's fault!" They day our CIA stops infiltrating those that seek America's destruction and conducting operations against them and the day that our military decides not to strike at my country's enemies, is the day the American people will throw them out on their ears.

I don't expect anything different from Pakistan's ISI or their military, regarding their country.

 

[maximuswarrior]

Not this again. Pakistan should not fall for this one again. Spend the money on JF-17 no matter how superior or inferior.

 

[Director General]

Good luck trying to make Senator John McCain and Senator Bob Corker on allowing F-16 sales to Pakistan with US financing.

Only way this sale can take place is if Pakistan agrees to pay full $700 million for F-16s on it's own.