Don’t Blame the Pakistan Army for the Country’s Poverty

[GumNaam]

So conveniently said....whereas I, you and the whole world knows how free our judiciary, civil government is and had always been. Whether from front (dictatorship) or from the back, army rule the roost in Pakistan.
They control foreign policy, take biggest share of budget without accountability, interfere and dictate in every affair of the state, Make country's policies...and then when debacle happens, they conveniently wash off their hands....No army general has been accounted for any mis-happening in our History.

And then question is asked, How is Army responsible?

well if we have such an INEPT judiciary and pathetic civil setup who are so friggin' spineless that they can't stand up with the moral courage to face "THE GENERALS" because the entire judiciary and democracy loving polticians are corrupt to the core themselves then FRIGGIN' STOP COMPLAINING!!!
judiciary? corrupt!
beaurocracy? corrupt!
police? corrupt!
politicians? corrupt!
doctors? corrupt!
lawyers? corrupt!
media? corrupt!
teachers? corrupt!
taxi vala? corrupt!
thayla vala? corrupt!

IF EVERYONE'S FRIGGIN' CORRUPT THEN DID YOU EXPECT OH SO HONEST "GENERALS" TO DESCEND FROM THE PLANET URANUS???

if we want squeeky clean generals (and other leadership) then let's cut the horse sh!t and start with making OURSELVES squeeky clean FIRST!

 

[Adonis]

well if we have such an INEPT judiciary and pathetic civil setup who are so friggin' spineless that they can't stand up with the moral courage to face the judiciary because the entire judiciary and democracy loving polticians are corrupt to the core themselves then FRIGGIN' STOP COMPLAINING!!!
judiciary? corrupt!
beaurocracy? corrupt!
police? corrupt!
politicians? corrupt!
doctors? corrupt!
lawyers? corrupt!
media? corrupt!
teachers? corrupt!
taxi vala? corrupt!
thayla vala? corrupt!

IF EVERYONE FRIGGIN' CORRUPT THEN DID YOU EXPECT OH SO HONEST "GENERALS" TO DESCEND FROM THE PLANET URANUS???

if we want squeeky clean generals (and other leadership) then let's cut the horse sh!t and start with making OURSELVES squeeky clean FIRST!

Corruption percolates from the top....It's the tone at the top that impacts psyche of a country/organisation/Community or even Family.
I am not expecting Generals to descend from Uranus...but then why they are above law? (or at least this has been demonstrated so far in our history). When corrupt politician can be tried and punished...why are Generals Holy cows?

 

[GumNaam]

Corruption percolates from the top....It's the tone at the top that impacts psyche of a country/organisation/Community or even Family.
I am not expecting Generals to descend from Uranus...but then why they are above law? (or at least this has been demonstrated so far in our history). When corrupt politician can be tried and punished...why are Generals Holy cows?

seriously dude? okay let's take what you said and run with it...I have no clue if your a Pakistani or a new zealander or a Pakistani living in new zealand but whatever, think BACK to the first EVER martial law when General Ayub Khan took over. was the "civilian leadership" at that time obeying the law? were they looking after Pakistan's peoples' economic interests? were the government power corridors squeeky clean & obeying the law? the answer is no, no and a BIG FAT NO! under such circumstances, it is idiotic (at best) to expect some OTHER institution, especially one that has massive firepower & men behind it) to silently sit by and do zilch, absolutely nothing.

face it...admit it! CIVILIANS ARE TO BLAME!!! criminal zero that set off the entire sequence of events of martial law after martial law was civilian leadership buddy, NOT military! THAT much you gotta be square with...

 

[nahtanbob]

Have you seen the farmhouses where they live? The most expensive land in this country is owned by jarnails.

I have never been to Pakistan. I would not know

Have you seen what happened in Delhi. We need to protect ourselves from these Hindutva barbarians. We have no choice. The military's only fault is not including economic development and industrialization as part of our security strategy....leaving this up to the civilian political parties who blundered repeatedly.

Considering the fact the military has ruled Pakistan directly for 25 years I see no reason for different results

 

[Khan_21]

All politicians are corrupt. But military does not do a coup there simply because civilians sort it out. It is not the militaries domain to find out whats happening in politics.

I wonder why no coups in india even though poiticians are corrupt . Thats because their establishment and generals are not power hungry and they know their limits

 

[GumNaam]

View attachment 619257

All politicians are corrupt. But military does not do a coup there simply because civilians sort it out. It is not the militaries domain to find out whats happening in politics.

I wonder why no coups in india even though poiticians are corrupt . Thats because their establishment and generals are not power hungry and they know their limits

indian political leadership has always been loyal to the nation, they may be corrupt but (until the chai vala) they never treated india as their baap ki jageer, out of a 100, they'll do corruption of 50 but would genuinely apply 50 to the rest of india while Pakistani politicians could take the entire 100 outta 100 and ACTUALLY whine about not having a 1000! now of course, you DO know that, you are an injun after all!

 

[CrazyZ]

I have never been to Pakistan. I would not know



Considering the fact the military has ruled Pakistan directly for 25 years I see no reason for different results

Pakistan's best economic performance has been under military rule. Pakistan was looked at as an example for other Asian countries when Ayub Khan was in power in the 1960s. S Korea would send ministers to Pakistan to study our economy during this time. Things under Zia were also good in 80's. Musharraf was a bit of a laggard economically but he was dealing with sanctions. The bulk of the flaws in our economy was due to PPP. PML was better but they would pursue unsustainable growth strategies. There is no debate for people that know the history.

 

[Adonis]

seriously dude? okay let's take what you said and run with it...I have no clue if your a Pakistani or a new zealander or a Pakistani living in new zealand but whatever, think BACK to the first EVER martial law when General Ayub Khan took over. was the "civilian leadership" at that time obeying the law? were they looking after Pakistan's peoples' economic interests? were the government power corridors squeeky clean & obeying the law? the answer is no, no and a BIG FAT NO! under such circumstances, it is idiotic (at best) to expect some OTHER institution, especially one that has massive firepower & men behind it) to silently sit by and do zilch, absolutely nothing.

face it...admit it! CIVILIANS ARE TO BLAME!!! criminal zero that set off the entire sequence of events of martial law after martial law was civilian leadership buddy, NOT military! THAT much you gotta be square with...

You have again not addressed the point of contention......
I am not disagreeing that civil government is not to be blamed....what I am saying Army is more to be blamed as they control everything....and you acknowledged it they have to poke their noses as civil govt is worthless (per you)....so they have been poking their noses since Ayub Khan's time and hence have to take some accountability of the current miserable state....
Who decided we will fight US war in Afghanistan? Who launched operation search light in East Pakistan? Who Created Lashkars/Mujahiddins in Pakistan? Who through control over foreign policy , did not let civil government do business as usual with other countries? who made Pakistan a security state?

What I am saying that Army is partner in country's miserable condition and has to be accounted for....you can't just walk away putting everything on Civil government.

Pakistan's best economic performance has been under military rule. Pakistan was looked at as an example for other Asian countries when Ayub Khan was in power in the 1960s. S Korea would send ministers to Pakistan to study our economy during this time. Things under Zia were also good in 80's. Musharraf was a bit of a laggard economically but he was dealing with sanctions. The bulk of the flaws in our economy was due to PPP. PML was better but they would pursue unsustainable growth strategies. There is no debate for people that know the history.

If that is so...why this drama of democracy. Bring back dictatorship and let the country flourish.

 

[GumNaam]

You have again not addressed the point of contention......
I am not disagreeing that civil government is not to be blamed....what I am saying Army is more to be blamed as they control everything....and you acknowledged it they have to poke their noses as civil govt is worthless (per you)....so they have been poking their noses since Ayub Khan's time and hence have to take some accountability of the current miserable state....
Who decided we will fight US war in Afghanistan? Who launched operation search light in East Pakistan? Who Created Lashkars/Mujahiddins in Pakistan? Who through control over foreign policy , did not let civil government do business as usual with other countries? who made Pakistan a security state?

What I am saying that Army is partner in country's miserable condition and has to be accounted for....you can't just walk away putting everything on Civil government.



If that is so...why this drama of democracy. Bring back dictatorship and let the country flourish.

Oh I'm glad they poke their nose into everything...in fact, I wish they'd poke their nose into economics 10 years ago, we would'nt have the looming economic issues & the burgeoning debt. Face the music, civilians have ruled the country for most of its history not the military. they deserve nothing less than the guillotine as far as I'm concerned, jail for corruption is a severe understatement. you want the "military to stay in its domain"? It did for the last 12 years...and look what happened...10 times the increase in debt, exponential increase in corruption, fatf, drone strikes, you name it! Oh but wait, lemme guess, just go with the flow & the civilians will "eventually" come around & get their act together riiiiiiight? that argument is probably more worthless than a dead roadkill cuz at least roadkills still carry some nutritional value for scavenging animals like rats & crows! Its an open secret that the military barged in & manipulated the system to bring Imran Khan, its an open secret that Imran Khan has the military's support, its an open secret that he'll continue to have their support so as long as he works with them AND I AM GLAD THAT THIS IS HOW IT IS! And until the civilian leadership across the board from politicians to the judiciary to the bureaucracy start giving Pakistan & its interests the same loyalty they give to their own children, I would advise the military establishment to stick their boots in EVEN MORE affairs!

you can bitch, moan, whine, hue, & cry all you want about generals being bad & corrupt all you want but the 5 years of ppp & 5 years of pmln in our recent history throws everything point you have to make in favor of this so called horse manure of an idea called "civilian supremacy" down the toilet.

 

[Death Adder]

Who earns more a GC in our forces academies or junior Doctor and Nurse? Current crises is eye opening for all of us and we have to relocate resources towards education and health.

 

[Old School]

There are more civil employees than armed forces members in the country. Then there is the private sector which has it's own bigger share in the economic activities. Why always specifically singling out the Army for every good and bad ?

 

[Death Adder]

The perfect Answer to The Economist's propaganda against Army.

It is well established that two major political parties are main reason of economic down fall as elaborated by Sir Brian Cloughley.

Solutes to Pak Army Jo apny hi Kam Aqal logo ki bato ko bardasht krty howy Mulk k khatir din raat lagay rehtay hain or dekhawa nhi krty.

I love Pak Army love you ISI. The backbone of Pakistan

The main reason of our downfall is participating in foreign wars for dollars and undermining civilian institutions. You can’t blame political parties as they are all graduates of GHQ gate no 4, according to Sheikh Rasheed. Even if Imran khan fails, which is pretty evident now, we can’t blame him. The blame is on his handlers.

 

[Khan_21]

indian political leadership has always been loyal to the nation, they may be corrupt but (until the chai vala) they never treated india as their baap ki jageer, out of a 100, they'll do corruption of 50 but would genuinely apply 50 to the rest of india while Pakistani politicians could take the entire 100 outta 100 and ACTUALLY whine about not having a 1000! now of course, you DO know that, you are an injun after all!

I can count 50 countries more poorer and more corrupt than PK but with no coups. Your relative might be a corrupt general that is why you are triggeree about the whole scenerio. Nope Indian institutions are in a better shape because they actually have scientists and engineers sitting on their respective fields. We have a BSC pass retired general as head of suparco. No wonder we are so shit.

Also their generals dont live in palaces and farmhouses .

Pakistan's best economic performance has been under military rule. Pakistan was looked at as an example for other Asian countries when Ayub Khan was in power in the 1960s. S Korea would send ministers to Pakistan to study our economy during this time. Things under Zia were also good in 80's. Musharraf was a bit of a laggard economically but he was dealing with sanctions. The bulk of the flaws in our economy was due to PPP. PML was better but they would pursue unsustainable growth strategies. There is no debate for people that know the history.

That was because they got billions of $$$. It wasnt because of any economic policy.

Oh I'm glad they poke their nose into everything...in fact, I wish they'd poke their nose into economics 10 years ago, we would'nt have the looming economic issues & the burgeoning debt. Face the music, civilians have ruled the country for most of its history not the military. they deserve nothing less than the guillotine as far as I'm concerned, jail for corruption is a severe understatement. you want the "military to stay in its domain"? It did for the last 12 years...and look what happened...10 times the increase in debt, exponential increase in corruption, fatf, drone strikes, you name it! Oh but wait, lemme guess, just go with the flow & the civilians will "eventually" come around & get their act together riiiiiiight? that argument is probably more worthless than a dead roadkill cuz at least roadkills still carry some nutritional value for scavenging animals like rats & crows! Its an open secret that the military barged in & manipulated the system to bring Imran Khan, its an open secret that Imran Khan has the military's support, its an open secret that he'll continue to have their support so as long as he works with them AND I AM GLAD THAT THIS IS HOW IT IS! And until the civilian leadership across the board from politicians to the judiciary to the bureaucracy start giving Pakistan & its interests the same loyalty they give to their own children, I would advise the military establishment to stick their boots in EVEN MORE affairs!

you can bitch, moan, whine, hue, & cry all you want about generals being bad & corrupt all you want but the 5 years of ppp & 5 years of pmln in our recent history throws everything point you have to make in favor of this so called horse manure of an idea called "civilian supremacy" down the toilet.

Dont worry NAB has seized musharrafs properties and money. All the lootings will come back. Kiyani and his brothers DHA scandals money will also come back.

 

[GumNaam]

The main reason of our downfall is participating in foreign wars for dollars and undermining civilian institutions. You can’t blame political parties as they are all graduates of GHQ gate no 4, according to Sheikh Rasheed. Even if Imran khan fails, which is pretty evident now, we can’t blame him. The blame is on his handlers.

Care to elaborate on what the "civilian institutions" would've done regarding the "foreign funded" war given that entire life savings of the heads of these "civilian institutions" is in foreign banks? That's a proven FACT!

 

[Khan_21]

Care to elaborate on what the "civilian institutions" would've done regarding the "foreign funded" war given that entire life savings of the heads of these "civilian institutions" is in foreign banks? That's a proven FACT!

Top 100 in Army are worth $10-20 Billion. Where did it come from? And where is it saved?