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Don’t use the K word

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Ejaz thank you for giving extra meaning of Kafir therefore you easily explained those who reject they are called that word and its fine they shouldn't reject in the first place so the term won't be used. Case solved.

I would be using that word as it's the right word has no offensive meaning to it, you people see meaning through american/british dictionary.
Arab is a rich language try to research on it.
 
Kafir means one who reject the truth known to him for his personal gains .That is,for one to be a kafir,one should know islam is the only one true religion and still reject it.Most of the non muslims does not think islam is the true religion of god they do not deserve to be called kafirs.
 
Urbanized Greyhound...

your logic is flawed and stupid..if Arab Muslims population is less do you want non Arab Muslims to stop praying because arab population is less so don't pray don't recite verses in arabic..

Get over with it man, be positive Kafir = Non Muslims nothing else.
Regardless of the % of population using the word in another sense does not make sense therefore those people are stupid to use Kafir = disrespect I would call them illiterate nothing else so you should ignore them same as you people call us non-hindu, should I take it offensive?

Moderators close the thread its getting messy.

I PM ed Jon to clarify.....as far as my " logic" is concerned you mustn't expect the man on the street to "logically think" whether the word is offensive or not.....if he finds it offensive then you stop saying .....so in this case you should get over it and move on , not us.....

there is an excellent point made by an Indian member in the thread about the word negro / black.....if the people find it offensive then you stop saying ,simple.......we and our religions are given names for a reason and these names remain the same whether they be spoken in Arabic or any other language .....


I have no issue with you saying prayers or speaking in Arabic....that is your internal matter ....but I will take it personal ( as you or anyone else in the whole wide world would ) if you call me by any other word than my name /name of my religion.....period.....
 
The word kafir is used for those who are not among the followers of the 4 Holy Books. All other religions like hinduism, budhism etc didn't believe in the unity of Al mighty Allah so they are called kafir's.

I thought the word Kafir can be used for those who deny the existence of God altoghther. Hindus believe in god, i think Hindus, and the followers of other books can be Mushrik rather than Kafir.
 
Well I think most of the hindus believe(including me) that adhami (malechha=impure) is a wrong word--> who are we to decide whether a person is impure........let his character speak for him......

I can not say about kafir d/t limited knowledge on this matter but ususllay it has been used in derogatory terms.....at least what we non-muslims perceive it.....

So u should not be proud adharmi.....it is a very bad word...and it's use must be condemned.........

By the way I think taliban stands for student.....right

And yeah hindus believe in single God......
 
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I thought the word Kafir can be used for those who deny the existence of God altoghther. Hindus believe in god, i think Hindus, and the followers of other books can be Mushrik rather than Kafir.

So acc to you Athiest are the only kafir left now and in Quran the word kafir is used again and agian referring to Athiest :rofl:

Bro honestly speaking the kufars of Makkah included hindu's(idol worshipers), christians and jews. Those are kafirs i.e non-muslims.

Seriously reading Surah e Kafiron with english translation should be enough to understand who are the kafirs and this surah contains only 6 small verses. Not a big deal.
 
Well I think most of the hindus believe(including me) that adhami (malechha=impure) is a wrong word--> who are we to decide whether a person is impure........let his character speak for him......

I can not say about kafir d/t limited knowledge on this matter but ususllay it has been used in derogatory terms.....at least what we non-muslims perceive it.....

So u should not be proud adharmi.....it is a very bad word...and it's use must be condemned.........

By the way I think taliban stands for student.....right
And yeah hindus believe in single God......

Spot on. I have never heard the word Adharmi or indeed Malecha used to describe Muslims.

Btw JonAsad, you could not be described as Adharmi. It means one without a faith & it doesn't care about what faith you follow.
It can also mean one who does not follow dharma i.e. an immoral person. That is more a reflection of one's character than anything religious in the sense that even a deeply religious person could also be called adharmi if his conduct warranted it.

To my Indian friends, Kindly stop throwing such words around. No point in trying to get even. Since Hinduism does not believe being the only way, there is no parallel to the use of the word kafir. Please don't invent your own. Malecha meant foreigner or outsider when referring to caste .
 
Spot on. I have never heard the word Adharmi or indeed Malecha used to describe Muslims.

Btw JonAsad, you could not be described as Adharmi. It means one without a faith & it doesn't care about what faith you follow.
It can also mean one who does not follow dharma i.e. an immoral person. That is more a reflection of one's character than anything religious in the sense that even a deeply religious person could also be called adharmi if his conduct warranted it.

To my Indian friends, Kindly stop throwing such words around. No point in trying to get even. Since Hinduism does not believe being the only way, there is no parallel to the use of the word kafir. Please don't invent your own. Malecha meant foreigner or outsider when referring to caste .

All i can say is that word Kafir when translated into english means a Non-Muslim, it doesnt mean impure, it doesnt mean outsiders, it doesnt mean any thing about ones character, it only means a non-muslim (some one who does not follow the teachings of islam) thats it.
 
FAITH ACCOMPLI


Don¡¯t use the K word



Progressive Muslim scholars and clerics condemn the use of the word ¡®kafir¡¯ (infidel) for non-Muslim communities


Mohammed Wajihuddin | TNN




When Prem Chand, a 25-yearold Pakistani Hindu and member of the National Youth Parliament, died in the Islamabad air crash a few weeks ago, radical Islamism killed him a second time. The authorities who salvaged the bodies from the crash site painted Chand¡¯s coffin black and wrote ¡®kafir¡¯ (infidel) on it in glaring red¡ªan act which raised hackles among enlightened Hindus and Muslims across the subcontinent.
The debate on whether a non-Muslim should be called a kafir or not is not new. Nor is the controversy around the word itself. What has shocked some senior Islamic clerics more is the utter disregard shown by the authorities for a dead person¡¯s dignity. It also betrayed their lack of understanding and complete distortion of a Quranic word.
The Quran uses ¡®kafir¡¯ for those who deny the Truth or the unity of God. Indeed, the holy book has a whole chapter named Al-Kafirun (Those Who Deny The Truth) on this; however, it has never asked Muslims to call non-Muslims kafirs. On the contrary, Al-Kafirun ends on a beautiful, conciliatory note often quoted by scholars: ¡°Lakum deenakum waliyadeen (You have your religion and I have mine).¡¯¡¯

Maulana Burhanuddin Qasmi, who heads Markazul Maarif, a Mumbai-based Islamic Research Institute, calls this verse the very kernel of Islam¡¯s emphasis on co-existence. ¡°There could not have been a clearer divine commandment about choice of religion,¡¯¡¯ he explains. ¡°Islam invites everyone to its fold but doesn¡¯t humiliate those who don¡¯t embrace it. Using the word ¡®kafir¡¯ to abuse people of other faiths is un-Islamic.¡¯¡¯

Scholars maintain that non-Muslims, including Hindus, should not be called kafirs for another reason. ¡°Whether an individual or community denies the truth is a matter of his/her conscience. And since only Allah knows the conscience, nobody has the right to call a Hindu a kafir,¡¯¡¯ says Maulana Abdul Khaliq Madrasi, vice-rector of the seminary Darul Uloom Deoband (UP).

The obscurantists say Hindus should be called kafirs because, as they claim, Allah never sent a prophet with a divine book to them. Remarkably, the Quran calls all those communities who were sent with divine books, believers.

Scholar Asghar Ali Engineer doesn¡¯t buy the argument that Hindus never got a Prophet or a divine book. ¡°The list of prophets named in the Quran is illustrative, not exhaustive,¡¯¡¯ he says. ¡°Muslims believe there were 1,24,000 prophets; the Quran mentions just about two dozen. It also says that Allah sent a ¡®haadi¡¯ (guide) to every nation. So, if there is no mention of a nation or the book in the Quran, it should not mean that people of that nation or community are kafirs.¡¯¡¯

Mazhar Jan-i-Janan, an 18th-century Sufi saint, similarly disarmed those who believed that Hindustan remained devoid of a prophet.
¡°How can Allah forget a great nation like Hindustan and not send His guide here?¡¯¡¯ he asked. ¡°Maybe Ram and Krishna were such guides.¡¯¡¯ Jan-i-Janan also refused to accept Hindus as nonbelievers or those who hide the truth because ¡°Hindus also call Ishwar ¡®Satyam¡¯ (Truth)¡¯¡¯.

Engineer refers to Mughal emperor Shah Jahan¡¯s heir apparent Dara Shikoh¡¯s scholarly work Majma-al-Bahrayn (comingling of two oceans), which draws parallels between Islam and Hinduism. ¡°Hindus call Ishwar ¡®Satyam, Shivam, Sundaram¡¯ (Truth, Almighty and Beautiful) , and all these are equivalent attributes of Allah¡ªHaq, Jabbar and Jamil,¡¯¡¯ wrote Shikoh.

And finally, the disrespect shown to a dead person by calling him ¡®kafir¡¯ is also against the Prophet¡¯s own beliefs. Once he saw the cortege of a Jew pass by. Immediately, he stood in honour of the dead person. When a companion reminded him that it was a Jew¡¯s cortege, the Prophet shot back: ¡°Was he not a human being?¡¯¡¯



BAD NAME: The body of Pakistani Hindu Prem Chand (right), who died in a plane crash, was put into a coffin and labelled ¡®kafir¡¯ by Pakistani authorities


ToI dated 20th Sep 2010 feed.

Hindus are Mushriks, that is confirm,
In Islam,Shirk(Arabic:1…21„91†76¥0) orpolytheism means to consider anyone god other than the God,Allah. Shirkis also associating partners with him, giving his characteristics to others beside him, or not believing in his characteristics. With in Islam,
 
Kafir isnt even an insult; it's more insulting for a Muslim to call another Muslim a kafir than for a Muslim to call a non-Muslim a kafir

so i dont even see what the big deal is here
 
Alrite If I say i agree with Indians logic here as Kafir is insulting so i hope that they wont have problem with Mushrik.

Anyway ......Hey Mushriks How are you guys........


Whats the deal with you guys .....really....

We call you Kafir...........Insulting

We call you Infidel........Insulting

We call you Hindu........Hindu hater

We call you Bharti.......Open a new thread and ask the mod to give members a warning. :lol:
 
Hindus are Mushriks, that is confirm,
In Islam,Shirk(Arabic:1…21„91†76¥0) orpolytheism means to consider anyone god other than the God,Allah. Shirkis also associating partners with him, giving his characteristics to others beside him, or not believing in his characteristics. With in Islam,

That is not completely accurate.

Hinduism is probably not even a correct religious term according to some Hindu religious scholars as Hindus/Hindis historically used to refer to the people living aroun the Indus valley or farther east to it.


They prefer the term Vedantists or followers of the Vedas or Sanatan Dharmi meaning eternal religion.

Also there are hindus who are not idol worshippers and believe in strict monotheism. Groups like Arya Samaj and others are strictly against idol worship.

Here is a quote from a very learned Persian scholar Al-Biruni writing about Hindus (literally meaning residents of the Indus valley) back inthe 12th century
The educated among the Hindus abhor anthropomorphisms of this kind, but the crowd and the members of the single sects use them most extensively.The Hindus believe with regard to God that he is one, eternal, without beginning and end, acting by free-will, almighty, all-wise, living, giving life, ruling, preserving; one who in his sovereignty is unique, beyond all likeness and unlikeness, and that he does not resemble anything nor does anything resemble him
 
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Kafir isnt even an insult; it's more insulting for a Muslim to call another Muslim a kafir than for a Muslim to call a non-Muslim a kafir

so i dont even see what the big deal is here

In Pakistan it is swear word , its similar to calling some one a pig. its impolite and doesnt sound nice when we address our own minority (non-muslims) as kafirs
 
I guess the point ofthe article was to follow what the way of Prophet Muhammed was instead of the way of the Kharijis.

Prophet Muhammed (SAW) did not preach his message of Islam by saying "O Kafirs" derogately, but he use to "O my people" or "O my nation" .Other than that he was very courteous to the non-muslims and there are plenty of stories that show his kindness in this regard.

On the other hand, theKharijis were in the business of designating people even muslims Kafirs openly and repeatedly and then insisting that they are now wajibul Qatl (wrongly ofcourse).
 
In Pakistan it is swear word , its similar to calling some one a pig. its impolite and doesnt sound nice when we address our own minority (non-muslims) as kafirs

which is why i would never endorse such behaviour.....

within Pakistan, yes it has HIGHLY negative connotations for obvious reasons. I've personally never seen a Muslim in Pakistan give this label to a minority Christian or other group


but Pakistanis can be emotional people sometimes. Kafir is like calling someone a pig; to some, the word ''secular'' means ''atheist''

For this reason (not just in Pakistan) the words use is becoming frowned upon and ''non-Muslim'' is becoming more the norm.
 
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