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Does Turkey Need an Aircraft Carrier(Juan Carlos LHD)?

Does Turkey need the Juan Carlos LHD?

  • Yes

    Votes: 42 71.2%
  • Unsure

    Votes: 6 10.2%
  • No

    Votes: 11 18.6%

  • Total voters
    59

Hakan

RETIRED INTL MOD
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It looks like Turkey will have the Juan Carlos LHD which will carry not only helicopters, troops, and vehicles but also F-35's. As we all know this will be an expensive piece of equipment due to high maintenance costs and the initial large procurement cost, so does Turkey need a ship with those capabilities? What will it be used for? Could this money have been better spent somewhere else? So the big question is does Turkey need the LHD it is planning to procure?

For those who want to learn more about the LHD turkey plans to acquire watch this video.

(There is a thread on the same topic but it is old and you can't vote)

(You can change your votes)
 
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Money would be better spent to monitor the border with Arab states and in counter terror capabilities for internal operations.
 
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Yes. To free the entire world from enemy occupation and to wage WAR. I love war.

- Serious mode

Its good for fast deployment of units and HQ for whatever reasons in foreign countries.
 
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No. As most people will agree, it will be primarly used for power projection. Hell even the Juan carlos was initially known as Buque de Proyección Estratégica (Strategic Projection Vessel).
 
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The uses of it would be in a case of a new Korean war, or Japanese-China war to bomb China with our F-35. I don't see any other nation on whom it is worth to use our LHD,F-35,etc so far away. I personally think it wouldn't be bad to have such a long arm.
 
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The uses of it would be in a case of a new Korean war, or Japanese-China war to bomb China with our F-35. I don't see any other nation on whom it is worth to use our LHD,F-35,etc so far away. I personally think it wouldn't be bad to have such a long arm.
Those are some... rather odd scenario's.
 
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Those are some... rather odd scenario's.
Turks fought in the last Korean war. Koreans I have spoken to said sooner or later a new Korean war will break out. It is not such an odd scenario. Probably China won't stay still like last time. Also tentions with Japan are growing. We could see a regional war breaking out there.
 
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I think if you go to war with somebody it will be one of the 1st things the enemy will try to blow up because it would be a big embarrassment for Turkey.

I have been trying to come up with reasons why turkey needs this thing but i havnt come up with any realistic reasons yet. I think the best way to learn about how turkey would use this ship is to go to the spanish and australian navy websites to see what kind of missions they are sending their juan carlos's on.

Power projection,nothing else.
Where? Somalia? Maybe lebanon?
 
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I think if you go to war with somebody it will be one of the 1st things the enemy will try to blow up because it would be a big embarrassment for Turkey.

I have been trying to come up with reasons why turkey needs this thing but i havnt come up with any realistic reasons yet. I think the best way to learn about how turkey would use this ship is to go to the spanish and australian navy websites to see what kind of missions they are sending their juan carlos's on.
You know the LHD will be in a ''carrier'' group(enough protection).
TF-2000,TF-100,MilgemI,II,II,IV,Subs etc.

I think if you go to war with somebody it will be one of the 1st things the enemy will try to blow up because it would be a big embarrassment for Turkey.

I have been trying to come up with reasons why turkey needs this thing but i havnt come up with any realistic reasons yet. I think the best way to learn about how turkey would use this ship is to go to the spanish and australian navy websites to see what kind of missions they are sending their juan carlos's on.


Where? Somalia? Maybe lebanon?
Mediterranean not enough?
 
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I think if you go to war with somebody it will be one of the 1st things the enemy will try to blow up because it would be a big embarrassment for Turkey.
I have been trying to come up with reasons why turkey needs this thing but i havnt come up with any realistic reasons yet. I think the best way to learn about how turkey would use this ship is to go to the spanish and australian navy websites to see what kind of missions they are sending their juan carlos's on.
Where? Somalia? Maybe lebanon?

Additionally

Secure transport of military hardware to allies which bought our equipment and training personal with the LHC as a floating city so we can train them while delivering it under the TSK with adequate protection of our troops while being on the mission. Basically its a floating barracks
 
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Let's see why it's important and what others think about it
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Turkey’s new carrier alters eastern Mediterranean energy and security calculus

Turkey took a major step in altering the naval balance in the eastern Mediterranean by contracting the construction of a multi-purpose amphibious assault ship.

In late December 2013, Turkey took a major step in altering the naval balance in the eastern Mediterranean by contracting the construction of a multi-purpose amphibious assault ship that can function as an aircraft carrier, potentially providing Turkey an unprecedented measure of sea control in the region.

The heightened threat perception for Israel, Cyprus and Greece will impact the imminent decision regarding whether Israel will export its natural gas to a planned Cypriot LNG terminal with a European export route through Greece, or build a subsea pipeline to Turkey. Turkey’s next diplomatic moves could make the difference between a comprehensive regional agreement for a Turkish export route for eastern Mediterranean offshore energy, or a naval arms race which Turkey economically cannot win.

Background In March 2012, then-commander of the Turkish navy Admiral Murat Bilgel outlined Turkey’s strategic objective “to operate not only in the littorals but also on the high seas,” with “high seas” referring to the eastern Mediterranean. Bilgel identified the Turkish navy’s intermediate goals for the coming decade as “enhancing sea denial, forward presence, and limited power projection capacity.”

Turkey’s new Landing Helicopter Dock (LHD) will cost between one half to one billion dollars and will provide Ankara with its desired forward presence in the eastern Mediterranean, which Greece, Cyprus and Israel cannot afford to ignore.

The new Turkish LHD, to be built by the Turkish shipyard SEDEF and Spanish shipbuilder Navantia, will be a variant of Navantia’s Juan Carlos I class L-61 ship used by the Spanish Navy. After Spain, Turkey will be only the second country to possess a Juan Carlos I class vessel.

The Australian navy’s two Navantia-built ships, the HMAS Canberra and HMAS Adelaide, once commissioned, will constitute the Australian fleet’s largest vessels. Similarly, Anakara’s new LHD will dwarf the Turkish fleet’s largest ships.

While ships in Turkish Navy’s Gabya class have a 4,100 ton displacement, Turkey’s new Juan Carlos I class LHD will have a displacement of 27,079 tons.

Providing the Turkish Navy with blue-water capabilities, Ankara’s new LHD is game-changer in the eastern Mediterranean. The main mission profile of the Juan Carlos I class LHD is power projection to any theater of operation. As an amphibious assault ship, it can transport a battalion-sized unit of 1,000 troops along with 150 vehicles, including battle tanks, for a marine landing.

Even more significantly, the Juan Carlos I class LHD is an aircraft carrier substitute. The ship has already replaced Spain’s aircraft carrier the Principe de Asturias. In Spanish, the LHD ship is referred to by the abbreviation BPE, standing for Buque de Proyeccion Estrategica or Strategic Power Projection Ship, more accurately reflecting its purpose.

As an aircraft carrier, Turkey’s LHD will feature a flight deck with a 12° ski-jump enabling it to host both V/STOL (Vertical and/or Short Take-Off and Landing) and STOVL (Short Take-Off and Vertical Landing) fighter aircraft. While six fighter aircraft can be parked on its flight deck, the ship also has a hangar bay that can house 12 additional fighter aircraft.

As Turkey’s first aircraft carrier, the LHD will be capable of sailing non-stop for 30 days with a range of 1,700 nautical miles (3,148 km). In combination with Turkey’s existing naval assets, the LHD will provide Ankara with the ability to project significant force in the areas of Cyprus and Israel’s offshore natural gas facilities, giving Turkey, in the short term, a greater measure of sea control in the region.

Implications Turkey’s LHD acquisition constitutes part of Ankara’s $3 billion “National Warship” Project, known by its Turkish abbreviation MILGEM, whose goal is to expand Turkey’s capability to deploy combat forces far from its coasts. In September 2013, shortly after assuming his post as Turkey’s new naval commander, Admiral Bülent Bostanoglu asserted in a national speech related to the MILGEM project that Turkey’s maritime threat perception is “energy-based” and identified defending Turkey’s interests in the eastern Mediterranean as the navy’s “highest priority.”

In this context, Turkey’s LHD procurement will impact Israel’s decision-making process about how to export off-shore natural gas from its Tamar and Leviathan fields. Israel’s Tamar field is already in commercial production and in December 2013 additional reserves of up to 20 billion cubic meters were discovered. Israel’s Leviathan field is estimated to contain 510 billion cubic meters of natural gas.

The developers of the Israeli gas fields, the American firm Noble Energy and their Israeli partners Avner and Delek, signed a June 2013 MOU with Cyprus to build a Liquid Natural Gas (LNG) terminal in Vasilikos on the southern Cypriot coast. Because Cyprus’s Aphrodite gas field, also developed by Noble and Delek, is too small to attract sufficient investment to finance a gas liquefaction plant, cash-strapped Cyprus needs the volume of Israeli gas exports for a viable LNG terminal.

The arrangement also raises the possibility of a European market export route via Greece that would bypass Turkey.

The evolution of this possible export arrangement is the product of the trilateral cooperation in energy development and defense among Israel, Cyprus and Greece that arose in the context of the deteriorating relations between Israel and Turkey from 2008 to 2012.

In 2010, Turkey’s National Security Policy Document (Milli Guvenlik Siyaseti Belgesi), commonly known as “The Red Book,” began to list Israel as a threat to regional security, while Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan famously promised that the “Eastern Mediterranean will see Turkish battleships frequently.”

A more cost-effective export route for Israeli natural gas would be via a subsea pipeline from the Leviathan field to Turkey. According to estimates from JP Morgan, the pipeline would yield a higher and faster return on investment than the construction of the planned LNG plant in Cyprus.

The Turkish firm Zorlu Energy and, more recently, Turcas Petrol have been pursuing the pipeline option with Israel.

However, Ankara’s LHD acquisition in the context of the antagonistic posture toward Israel by Prime Minister Erdogan, Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu and other high-ranking Turkish ministers creates a heightened threat perception in Israel in which Jerusalem cannot afford to jeopardize its strategic relations with Nicosia and, by extension, Athens.

Moreover, the proposed Leviathan- Turkey pipeline would transverse Cyprus’s continental shelf requiring permission from Nicosia. Without a significant breakthrough for a political settlement on Northern Cyprus, Ankara’s LHD acquisition similarly heightens Nicosia’s threat perception, altering the strategic calculus for both Nicosia and Athens.

Ankara has laid down a strategic marker with its enhanced naval capabilities in the eastern Mediterranean. If Turkey does not follow with diplomatic overtures to secure a comprehensive energy export agreement with Israel, Cyprus and Greece that meets Turkey’s interests, Ankara will have wasted a valuable opportunity.

Instead, Ankara will have initiated a naval arms race which Turkey does not have the economic resources to win.

Israel does not need to match Turkey’s procurement program to effectively counter a Turkish bid for greater sea control in the eastern Mediterranean.

Israel can respond with the less costly augmentation of its anti-access and area-denial capabilities. Both countries best interests are served by not becoming trapped in this kind of naval competition.

Conclusions Even though Turkey’s new carrier and other naval assets have yet to be commissioned, their procurement has already altered the strategic balance in the eastern Mediterranean and the terms Turkey will be able to demand from its neighbors.

Greece, Cyprus and Israel will each need to recalibrate their strategic calculus. Unless these three can come to a regional agreement that incentivizes Turkey as a distribution hub for the sale of eastern Mediterranean natural gas, Greece, Cyprus and Israel will need to consider enhanced collective security arrangements to ensure their maritime interests.

A subsea pipeline from Israel’s Leviathan gas field to Turkey, one that also compensates Cyprus with revenue sharing and excess gas for the development of its LNG terminal, offers economic incentives to all the principal actors to reach a comprehensive arrangement for the security of the eastern Mediterranean.

For its part, Turkey will need to restore full and friendly relations with Israel while engaging Cyprus on a political settlement.

Such a shift in Turkish diplomacy will transform Turkey’s naval build-up into an incentive for regional cooperation.

Without such a shift, Turkey will be committing itself to a long-term naval escalation in the eastern Mediterranean which its economy cannot sustain.

Turkey’s new carrier alters eastern Mediterranean energy and security calculus - Opinion - Jerusalem Post
 
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medium level power projection in the eastern mediterranean. erdo&co are really into neo-ottoman sultanate. it will surely start an arms race. egypt is to acquire 2 or 3 fremm frigates in very short term. israel acquirying 2-3 corvettes and 2 meko a100 or a200 derivative frigates and is planning to buy 3-4 frigates from south korea and some 3-6 subs of different models. and in the center of this is gas deposits of course.
 
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Yes , please do not forget that Turkish Citizens in last war in Libya was evacuated. On LHD is more like a Moving Fortress.
 
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For Erdogan to transform from Recep to Caliph Sultan Recep I , it is a necessity :lol:

No aircraft carrier >> No real power projection on any countries but your neighbors >> not being a global power
 
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