Does the PA need more troops to fight terror?

[batmannow]

DOES PAKISTAN army needs MORE numberOFtroops TO STOP terror?

growing insurgency in the tribal areas of pakistan , is causing panic on the regular troops which were not trainned to combat this type of warfare!

i guss its about time that , PAKARMY should form a new force , which can use to combat terror & insurgency in the tribal areas & also in every location of pakistan.
i guss, we need 2,00000 strong men fighting force , which should be highly trainned in counter insurgency, & fighting terror with modifyied traning & modifyied weapons & other tools?
i am , sure that it will going to bring , the much required depth & much required muscle ,even to counter india on the eastrn front!

right now its looking worse , in the light of any indian attack, on any given time, that we had to move our troops from fata, towards indian front!


plz , share your wise & hounrable thoughts!
but stay away from trolling!

thanks

 

[batmannow]

Over 70 US military advisers work in Pakistan: report
Monday, 23 Feb, 2009 | 11:27 AM PST |
www.dawn.com

WASHINGTON: Over 70 American military advisers and technical specialists are secretly working in Pakistan to help its military units conduct operations against Al-Qaeda and the Taliban in the tribal areas, The New York Times reported late Sunday.

Citing unnamed officials, the newspaper said the advisers mostly include US Army Special Forces soldiers.

Overseen by the US Central Command and Special Operations Command, the advisers provide the Pakistani army with training and intelligence, the report said. But they do not get involved in combat operations.

The advisers form part of a secret task force that was started last summer with the support of the Pakistani government and military, the report said.

The cooperation has never been publicly acknowledged, but is beginning to pay dividends, the paper noted.

According to The Times, a new Pakistani commando unit within the Frontier Corps has used information from the Central Intelligence Agency and other sources to kill or capture as many as 60 militants in the past seven months, including at least five high-ranking rebel commanders.

Four weeks ago, the commandos captured a Saudi militant linked to Al-Qaeda, the report said.

But the main commanders of the Pakistani Taliban, including its leader, Baitullah Mehsud, and its leader in the Swat region, Maulana Fazlullah, remain at large, according to the paper.

US military officials are also concerned that they have not been able to persuade the head of the Pakistan army, General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, to embrace large-scale counterinsurgency training for the army itself, The Times said.

 

[Xeric]

Making a new force specific to counter terrorism is a guud step. Atleast after this our nation will not say that the military eats 80% of the country's budget.

BTW, this new force is 'emerging' out from FC and probably it will not made for ever.
i think that it is an ad hoc arrangement by giving some special training to a couple of men, use them, let them do their job and after they succeed they should be sent back to their original tasks.

Affording AT forces is not an easy job!

 

[batmannow]

Making a new force specific to counter terrorism is a guud step. Atleast after this our nation will not say that the military eats 80% of the country's budget.

BTW, this new force is 'emerging' out from FC and probably it will not made for ever.
i think that it is an ad hoc arrangement by giving some special training to a couple of men, use them, let them do their job and after they succeed they should be sent back to their original tasks.

Affording AT forces is not an easy job!

enigma947;sir
Atleast after this our nation will not say that the military eats 80% of the country's budget.
well, let them say whatever they ,say but how about if you lose all of FATA to TALIBANS?
what you will be saying to them? same funny questions & answers which were appeared after 1971?

Affording AT forces is not an easy job?
Affording FATA & TRIBAL areas to intact with pakistan, is also not a "easy job" either?

 

[Xeric]

enigma947;sir
Atleast after this our nation will not say that the military eats 80% of the country's budget.
well, let them say whatever they ,say but how about if you lose all of FATA to TALIBANS?
what you will be saying to them? same funny questions & answers which were appeared after 1971?

Affording AT forces is not an easy job?
Affording FATA & TRIBAL areas to intact with pakistan, is also not a "easy job" either?

You are absolutely right!

i would be the last person to oppose what you have said.

The kind of neighborhood we live in merits more towards the defence and less towards the other stuff. Survival first, but when i say that they will not say blame us for the budget stuff i meant that if we would be having separate forces for separate issue it will do alot of 'face saving'

i know people (well read people) who still think that it is only the Army that eats tax payer money- they simply omit the PAF and PN!

They forget that FC and other para military forces come under the interior ministry unlike the Army!

The initial casualties that the Army had to suffer were only due to the less flow of funds and training. Training was met soon and funds needs to fly in. So in short it is money that enables you to make other do what you tell them to do!

Raising a separate force to tackle terrorism has my vote, but then i'll also say that the deficiency of manpower inside the Army-especially in the Officers lot must also be taken care of.

 

[niaz]

There are two tasks here.

WOT:
PA has more than sufficient manpower to handle all possible internal threats. There is a deep seated sympathy for the Islamists in the media as well polity at large; making the decision to deal with anti state elements with full force politically difficult. Thus while the Islamic extremists can butcher PA and security forces elements without any qualms, harsh treatment by PA is condemned as happened in Lal Masjid affair. The problem therefore is lack of strength of will, not the numbers.

India:
Defense against India has always been the primary task of Pak armed forces. For this purpose PA does not have adequate manpower. With the cold start doctrine and integrated Air/Land command in place. India has the capability of exploiting their numerical superiority by simultaneously attacking on many fronts, overwhelming PA by sheer force of numbers. IMO Pakistan is short of light infantry. We need at least another 100,000 highly trained mobile light infantry, to be employed for plugging the gaps; leaving strike formations free to counter attack.

 

[batmannow]

There are two tasks here.

WOT:
PA has more than sufficient manpower to handle all possible internal threats. There is a deep seated sympathy for the Islamists in the media as well polity at large; making the decision to deal with anti state elements with full force politically difficult. Thus while the Islamic extremists can butcher PA and security forces elements without any qualms, harsh treatment by PA is condemned as happened in Lal Masjid affair. The problem therefore is lack of strength of will, not the numbers.

India:
Defense against India has always been the primary task of Pak armed forces. For this purpose PA does not have adequate manpower. With the cold start doctrine and integrated Air/Land command in place. India has the capability of exploiting their numerical superiority by simultaneously attacking on many fronts, overwhelming PA by sheer force of numbers. IMO Pakistan is short of light infantry. We need at least another 100,000 highly trained mobile light infantry, to be employed for plugging the gaps; leaving strike formations free to counter attack.

niaz;dear sir

well, thats the input which i am looking for!
well back on the issue, dear sir, pakistan needs more thn 5,00000 mens to face the enemy on mutiple fronts!
it was entirly wrong perception , that 5,00000 mens can safe gurd pakistani borders, even with india, also it was the "entirly wrong perception" regurding FATA , even AFGHANISTAN ! where INDIA made a convicing gesture?

In my week experinces durring "KARGIL OPREATION" our light infantry fought bravly, with a supieror enemy but again , not having sufficiant numbers on the ground, made our gains into our losses!

i guss, the doctrine of the "nucklear deterience" is also fading with time!

we need altogather 7, 000,00 strong mens , highly trainned , highly motivated, highly skilled, & highly modernized ARMY!
The concept i was trying to put in is a concept of " ELITE REACTION FORCE"
a force, which will be trainned as a "smart infantry + counter insurgency".
a force which can move in fastly,like a lightining , in the case of it was needed in the circumstances , where there is a need to support infantry divisions, or even in the special opreations , where a simple infantry cant work?

a force , which can be multi porpose, like US MARINES, which can undertake & respond , any kind of situations, within a quick time.
but it should be , a regular force surly not FC!

 

[Xeric]

There are two tasks here.

WOT:
PA has more than sufficient manpower to handle all possible internal threats. There is a deep seated sympathy for the Islamists in the media as well polity at large; making the decision to deal with anti state elements with full force politically difficult. Thus while the Islamic extremists can butcher PA and security forces elements without any qualms, harsh treatment by PA is condemned as happened in Lal Masjid affair. The problem therefore is lack of strength of will, not the numbers.

What a lovely thing you have said here.
i dont know why we are shy of what we do.

You take a decision then you gotta stick to it and at the same time justify it also.

Back out abruptly of feeling sorry for some specific actions is not what a military force do.

It would have been alot better and like a paradise if the Army would never have been inducted in the FATA region or for that matter Lal Mosque had never been stormed and everything could possibly have been taken care of around a table, BUT and only but, if the decision has been made to make use of the Army then there is no looking back until the mission has accomplished.

Armies don't negotiate (for what purpose the civilians are being paid then?)

Yes collateral damage is something that needs to be avoided at all cost, but again it is inevitable when you fight a counter insurgency.

BTW , the PA had already suffered alot of casualties while avoiding this collateral damage thing!

i don't understand why when a alleged terrorist kill hundreds he is sympathized and when a soldier bang the *** of someone he is criticized. Probably it is the foreign money in play that molds our media!

The statement as given by DG ISPR a day before when the DCO Khuahsal khan was abducted that he said the "the army will stay put until the end game is not achieved and ofcoure the 'other options' are also available when required". This is the kind of attitude that the Army require now, it had suffered alot already!!

India:
Defense against India has always been the primary task of Pak armed forces. For this purpose PA does not have adequate manpower. With the cold start doctrine and integrated Air/Land command in place. India has the capability of exploiting their numerical superiority by simultaneously attacking on many fronts, overwhelming PA by sheer force of numbers. IMO Pakistan is short of light infantry. We need at least another 100,000 highly trained mobile light infantry, to be employed for plugging the gaps; leaving strike formations free to counter attack.

Well as far as the Theory of Simultaneity is concerned it had already been killed!!

Now this Cold Start Strat is something which still needs to mature, merely conducting an exercise and declaring it 'successful' will not do the thing!

Yes there are other things that i'll not discuss, the high ups in the army know what they have to do!

 

[ajpirzada]

i think FC should be increased in numbers. same kind of force can also be established in balochistan to deal with insurgency. i mean hiring ppl from baloch tribes rather than sending punjabis there. FC, if given proper training which is being given by americans, can fight against insurgency effectively. in rough season it can also help army in a big way. idea of army becoming a counter insurgency force was american dream.

 

[batmannow]

i think FC should be increased in numbers. same kind of force can also be established in balochistan to deal with insurgency. i mean hiring ppl from baloch tribes rather than sending punjabis there. FC, if given proper training which is being given by americans, can fight against insurgency effectively. in rough season it can also help army in a big way. idea of army becoming a counter insurgency force was american dream.

ajpirzada;sir
wrong perceptions!
i guss you dont know about that subject!
FC was a coloniel force, with coloniel laws.

 

[Xeric]

i think FC should be increased in numbers. same kind of force can also be established in balochistan to deal with insurgency. i mean hiring ppl from baloch tribes rather than sending punjabis there. FC, if given proper training which is being given by americans, can fight against insurgency effectively. in rough season it can also help army in a big way. idea of army becoming a counter insurgency force was american dream.

Well now i hope you will not suggest that a similar force (like FC) should be raised for Punjab and Sindh!!
Ofcourse with Punjabis and Sindhis inside it.

FC was what the 'Gora' used to control these areas and it is still there.
BTW FC do have a large population of Balochis and similarly FC NFWP also have large number of Pathans!

 

[ajpirzada]

yes but my point is y cant it be improved and made more effective. if we double its size, it will be sufficient to fight insurgency on its own. u may also call it a force to defend our western borders. we need our whole army to defend our eastern front untill kashmir problem is solved.

 

[Xeric]

yes but my point is y cant it be improved and made more effective. if we double its size, it will be sufficient to fight insurgency on its own. u may also call it a force to defend our western borders. we need our whole army to defend our eastern front untill kashmir problem is solved.

FC is totally different from the Army. It has a very different role and mission.

FC is not responsible for defending the borders, like Rangers. And you can't have two different forces for the same purpose i.e. defending the country from the external threats (having the army to look after the Eastern front and let the FC defend the Western).
No this can't happen.

The training, equipment and the intake that FC have is totally different than that of the Army, ofcourse the command and staff of FC is run by Army Officers, so they do have that tinch of the job, but they have markedly different task and roles so both can;t be interchanged, though FC may be required to help the Army in the event of war.

BTW FC is large enough to accomplish its task. Try to find out the number of wings FC have currently!

 

[sohailbutt]

niaz;dear sir

well, thats the input which i am looking for!
well back on the issue, dear sir, pakistan needs more thn 5,00000 mens to face the enemy on mutiple fronts!
it was entirly wrong perception , that 5,00000 mens can safe gurd pakistani borders, even with india, also it was the "entirly wrong perception" regurding FATA , even AFGHANISTAN ! where INDIA made a convicing gesture?

In my week experinces durring "KARGIL OPREATION" our light infantry fought bravly, with a supieror enemy but again , not having sufficiant numbers on the ground, made our gains into our losses!

i guss, the doctrine of the "nucklear deterience" is also fading with time!

we need altogather 7, 000,00 strong mens , highly trainned , highly motivated, highly skilled, & highly modernized ARMY!
The concept i was trying to put in is a concept of " ELITE REACTION FORCE"
a force, which will be trainned as a "smart infantry + counter insurgency".
a force which can move in fastly,like a lightining , in the case of it was needed in the circumstances , where there is a need to support infantry divisions, or even in the special opreations , where a simple infantry cant work?

a force , which can be multi porpose, like US MARINES, which can undertake & respond , any kind of situations, within a quick time.
but it should be , a regular force surly not FC!

batmannow sir, indeed a very good detailed reply, sir very good thinking

i totally agree with u

 

[JK!]

Personally I am pro expansion of the Frontier Corps and training it for the modern day challenges it is facing.