Does PAF need (Strategic) Bombers?

[batmannow]

exactly. the only air forces in the world with dedicated heavy bombers are US and Russia. They also have the largest airforces in the world. Even the PLAAF's H-6 bombers are more missile platforms than real bombers.

so many airforces in the world dont have bombers. the british, french, germans, israelis, chinese, indians, koreans, swedes etc have capable airforces without utilising heavy bombers.

also the israeli bombing of lebanon showed that strike aircraft can deal a lot of damage. considering the collateral damage even when using strike aircraft with LGBs, imagine the collateral damage if heavy bombers are used! it'll be a nightmare for the bombing side. international pressure would be too much

Dear su-47, sir
frist of all here is list of bombers, which are in services of different airforces in the world. i hope it will make you happy.

1946-CURRENT
CANADA
CP-140A Arcturus (maritime patrol)
Canadair CP-107 Argus (maritime patrol)
France
Breguet Alizé (anti-submarine aircraft)
Breguet Atlantique (maritime patrol)
Dassault Étendard VI (fighter-bomber)
Dassault-Breguet Super Étendard (attack aircraft)
Dassault Mirage IV (strategic bomber)
Dassault Mirage 2000N
Sud Aviation Vautour (fighter-bomber)
(CHINA)
Harbin H-5 (medium bomber)
Q-5 Fantan (attack aircraft)
Tu-4 Bull (strategic bomber)
Xian H-8
Xian JH-7 (fighter-bomber)
Xian H-6 (medium bomber)

United States

Boeing P-8 Poseidon (maritime patrol)
B-36 Peacemaker (heavy bomber)
B-45 Tornado (reconnaissance bomber)
B-47 Stratojet (strategic bomber)
B-50 Superfortress (strategic bomber)
B-52 Stratofortress (strategic bomber)
B-57 Canberra (reconnaissance bomber)
B-58 Hustler (strategic bomber)
B-66 Destroyer (light bomber)
Douglas Skyraider (attack aircraft)
Douglas A-4 (attack aircraft)
XB-70 Valkyrie (strategic bomber prototype)
General Dynamics F-111 (fighter-bomber)
Grumman AF Guardian (anti-submarine aircraft)
Grumman S-2 Tracker (anti-submarine aircraft)
Grumman A-6 (attack aircraft)
F-117 Nighthawk (stealth attack aircraft)
Lockheed P2V Neptune (maritime patrol)
Lockheed P-3 Orion (maritime patrol)
Lockheed S-3 Viking (anti-submarine aircraft)
Martin P5M Marlin (maritime patrol)
Martin AM Mauler (attack aircraft)
North American A-5 (reconnaissance bomber)
Northrop B-2 Spirit (stealth bomber)
Republic A-10 (attack aircraft)
Rockwell B-1 Lancer (strategic bomber)
Vought A-7 (attack aircraft)

USSR/Russia

Beriev Be-10 (maritime patrol)
Beriev Be-12 (maritime patrol)
Ilyushin Il-28 (medium bomber)
Ilyushin Il-38 (maritime patrol)
Mikoyan MiG-25 (reconnaissance/bomber)
Mikoyan MiG-27 (attack aircraft)
Myasishchev M-4 (strategic bomber)
Myasishchev M-50 (strategic bomber prototype)
Sukhoi Su-7 (fighter-bomber)
Sukhoi Su-17 (fighter-bomber)
Sukhoi Su-24 (attack aircraft)
Sukhoi Su-25 (attack aircraft)
Sukhoi Su-34 (fighter-bomber)
Sukhoi T-4 (strategic bomber prototype)
Tupolev Tu-4 (strategic bomber)
Tupolev Tu-14 (light/torpedo bomber)
Tupolev Tu-16 (strategic bomber)
Tupolev Tu-22 (medium bomber)
Tupolev Tu-22M (strategic bomber)
Tupolev Tu-85 (strategic bomber prototype)
Tupolev Tu-95 (strategic bomber)
Tupolev Tu-142 (maritime patrol)
Tupolev Tu-160 (strategic bomber)
Yakovlev Yak-26 (tactical bomber)
Yakovlev Yak-28 (reconnaissance/tactical bomber)



Netherlands
Fokker F-27 maritime (maritime patrol)

United Kingdom

Avro Lincoln (heavy bomber)
Avro Shackleton (maritime patrol)
Avro Vulcan (strategic bomber)
Bristol Brigand (topedo bomber)
BAC TSR-2 (tactical strike/reconnaissance prototype)
English Electric Canberra (reconnaissance bomber)
Fairey Gannet (attack aircraft)
Handley Page Victor (strategic bomber)
Hawker-Siddeley Nimrod (maritime patrol)
Vickers Valiant (strategic bomber)

ISRAELs unhumman attacks on lebanon never being seen as what we are doing in FATA, it cant match what we were facing in our tribal areas. for example ! how can you JUSTIFY use of a F-16 to kill a head of HAMAAS, most of the strikes conducted by israeli f-16s were targeted murders of the HEZBOLLAHA, HAMAAS & PLO head of freedom fighters by a guided missile strike, any way its not a full combat situation. in a full combat situation with lebonan, with hezbollaha Isreal failed because isreali trops cant get hold the fighters, so its imposible for israel to hit them hard once and for all.

by the way, israel lost the last war against hezbollaha,& against lebonan, that was the very reason , why last primeminster of israel became unpopular in the frist place, that was very reason thats why, ISRAELI govt had to free a lot of prisnors from isreali unhumman jails , just to recive 2 bodies of israeli soldiers.
i dont understand, how you can see this great failiure of israeli govt, as a great sucsess.

 

[batmannow]

^^ will pakistan get B52 to defend its from its current adversary USA ? seriously think then post

bernard; sir
i never had suggested ,nor i am in favour of B-52s inclusion in PAF! Even in current adversary, What i am looking for is ,a couple of H-6's medium range bombers. i guss its enough, for current adversary.

 

[araz]

bernard; sir
i never had suggested ,nor i am in favour of B-52s inclusion in PAF! Even in current adversary, What i am looking for is ,a couple of H-6's medium range bombers. i guss its enough, for current adversary.

Carpet bombing in your own back ground will result in a backlash from the public due to collateral damage. We are much better off taking out selective targets avoiding massive collateral damage. Please take time to notice very little public response to selective attacks which take out foreigners. We need to have items for a purpose. Bombers in Pak setup would be purpose less to a great extent.Secondly, can you justify the setup cost and infrastructure for 2 -3 Bombers that you are proposing, especially in PAk current financial environment?
My 2 paisas worth
Araz

 

[bernard]

so only india holds the market for showcasing its weapons against pakistan & china. - get real man!

India never showcased its weapons against its adversary on both sides or to the world,even pakistan airforce was better mordenized in 1965/71 due to US assistance , no such direct facilities were provided to India before 1965

 

[Kharian_Beast]

They have turned one C130 into a gunship. But the problem lies with right intell in the last 6 months 97 reports were issued from intell officers only 1 was right the rest were just speculations.

Interesting. I also along with the other think tank Araz would like details if possible, I have been out of the domestic scene for quite some time though I knew things were headed in that direction (was trying to extract details through another C-130 thread)

 

[batmannow]

Carpet bombing in your own back ground will result in a backlash from the public due to collateral damage. We are much better off taking out selective targets avoiding massive collateral damage. Please take time to notice very little public response to selective attacks which take out foreigners. We need to have items for a purpose. Bombers in Pak setup would be purpose less to a great extent.Secondly, can you justify the setup cost and infrastructure for 2 -3 Bombers that you are proposing, especially in PAk current financial environment?
My 2 paisas worth
Araz

Dear araz; sir
its would be better that we take out our wonds by ourself rather others(USA)! who(allied) are still doing that & without any warrnings , without any hummanity, without any permission or without any respect.
plz, try to imagin the, situation once BARAK OBAMMA get in the white house, and then what ! if he order's B-52's carpet strikes on our tribal areas, what you think , how much he would be thinking of so called collateral damages.
what then we can do about that?
plz , think about the backlash once if our tribal areas attacked by allied with(B-52) carpet bombings, can our govt willbe able to stop that.
just now, i got the news that 20 people died in a predator missile attack in souh waziristan , what is this? is this good that we let others kill our own brothers, just because a super power wanted to that?

is this strategy is right one? or is this strategy creating more hate against our troops?
i think , it would be very reasonable to push terroists in a corner , sround them with our ground troops... give them ultimatum of severl hours to lay down thier weapons, after that let H-6 take the charge.
i guss, it will be far better in getting in positive results, at least it will bring the respect of pakistani state, & it will send the strong messge across the boder that we are strong, we are brutal for the enemies of the state, no matter who they are.
also it will make fear among those who thinks, that we are fighting US's war.

 

[Black Stone]

If Pakistan was to aquire strategic bombers, how will they get them because I don't see the Russians selling to Pakistan in the short term and Pakistan does not have the industry to make them yet.

The only real posibility is China selling to Pakistan, but have China agreed to sell them?.

I don't know about you guys, but nowadays for a country to sell strategic bombers to another country sounds kinda controversial.

 

[bernard]

Dear su-47, sir
frist of all here is list of bombers, which are in services of different airforces in the world. i hope it will make you happy.

1946-CURRENT
CANADA
CP-140A Arcturus (maritime patrol)
Canadair CP-107 Argus (maritime patrol)
France
Breguet Alizé (anti-submarine aircraft)
Breguet Atlantique (maritime patrol)
Dassault Étendard VI (fighter-bomber)
Dassault-Breguet Super Étendard (attack aircraft)
Dassault Mirage IV (strategic bomber)
Dassault Mirage 2000N
Sud Aviation Vautour (fighter-bomber)
(CHINA)
Harbin H-5 (medium bomber)
Q-5 Fantan (attack aircraft)
Tu-4 Bull (strategic bomber)
Xian H-8
Xian JH-7 (fighter-bomber)
Xian H-6 (medium bomber)

United States

Boeing P-8 Poseidon (maritime patrol)
B-36 Peacemaker (heavy bomber)
B-45 Tornado (reconnaissance bomber)
B-47 Stratojet (strategic bomber)
B-50 Superfortress (strategic bomber)
B-52 Stratofortress (strategic bomber)
B-57 Canberra (reconnaissance bomber)
B-58 Hustler (strategic bomber)
B-66 Destroyer (light bomber)
Douglas Skyraider (attack aircraft)
Douglas A-4 (attack aircraft)
XB-70 Valkyrie (strategic bomber prototype)
General Dynamics F-111 (fighter-bomber)
Grumman AF Guardian (anti-submarine aircraft)
Grumman S-2 Tracker (anti-submarine aircraft)
Grumman A-6 (attack aircraft)
F-117 Nighthawk (stealth attack aircraft)
Lockheed P2V Neptune (maritime patrol)
Lockheed P-3 Orion (maritime patrol)
Lockheed S-3 Viking (anti-submarine aircraft)
Martin P5M Marlin (maritime patrol)
Martin AM Mauler (attack aircraft)
North American A-5 (reconnaissance bomber)
Northrop B-2 Spirit (stealth bomber)
Republic A-10 (attack aircraft)
Rockwell B-1 Lancer (strategic bomber)
Vought A-7 (attack aircraft)

USSR/Russia

Beriev Be-10 (maritime patrol)
Beriev Be-12 (maritime patrol)
Ilyushin Il-28 (medium bomber)
Ilyushin Il-38 (maritime patrol)
Mikoyan MiG-25 (reconnaissance/bomber)
Mikoyan MiG-27 (attack aircraft)
Myasishchev M-4 (strategic bomber)
Myasishchev M-50 (strategic bomber prototype)
Sukhoi Su-7 (fighter-bomber)
Sukhoi Su-17 (fighter-bomber)
Sukhoi Su-24 (attack aircraft)
Sukhoi Su-25 (attack aircraft)
Sukhoi Su-34 (fighter-bomber)
Sukhoi T-4 (strategic bomber prototype)
Tupolev Tu-4 (strategic bomber)
Tupolev Tu-14 (light/torpedo bomber)
Tupolev Tu-16 (strategic bomber)
Tupolev Tu-22 (medium bomber)
Tupolev Tu-22M (strategic bomber)
Tupolev Tu-85 (strategic bomber prototype)
Tupolev Tu-95 (strategic bomber)
Tupolev Tu-142 (maritime patrol)
Tupolev Tu-160 (strategic bomber)
Yakovlev Yak-26 (tactical bomber)
Yakovlev Yak-28 (reconnaissance/tactical bomber)



Netherlands
Fokker F-27 maritime (maritime patrol)

United Kingdom

Avro Lincoln (heavy bomber)
Avro Shackleton (maritime patrol)
Avro Vulcan (strategic bomber)
Bristol Brigand (topedo bomber)
BAC TSR-2 (tactical strike/reconnaissance prototype)
English Electric Canberra (reconnaissance bomber)
Fairey Gannet (attack aircraft)
Handley Page Victor (strategic bomber)
Hawker-Siddeley Nimrod (maritime patrol)
Vickers Valiant (strategic bomber)

ISRAELs unhumman attacks on lebanon never being seen as what we are doing in FATA, it cant match what we were facing in our tribal areas. for example ! how can you JUSTIFY use of a F-16 to kill a head of HAMAAS, most of the strikes conducted by israeli f-16s were targeted murders of the HEZBOLLAHA, HAMAAS & PLO head of freedom fighters by a guided missile strike, any way its not a full combat situation. in a full combat situation with lebonan, with hezbollaha Isreal failed because isreali trops cant get hold the fighters, so its imposible for israel to hit them hard once and for all.

by the way, israel lost the last war against hezbollaha,& against lebonan, that was the very reason , why last primeminster of israel became unpopular in the frist place, that was very reason thats why, ISRAELI govt had to free a lot of prisnors from isreali unhumman jails , just to recive 2 bodies of israeli soldiers.
i dont understand, how you can see this great failiure of israeli govt, as a great sucsess.

Dear batmannow,
are you suggesting that like Israel's so called loss to hezbollah,hamas, is what pakistan will face in coming future to taliban in fata because of lack of heavy bombers
or you just posted something else in some other thread?

 

[batmannow]

If Pakistan was to aquire strategic bombers, how will they get them because I don't see the Russians selling to Pakistan in the short term and Pakistan does not have the industry to make them yet.

The only real posibility is China selling to Pakistan, but have China agreed to sell them?.

I don't know about you guys, but nowadays for a country to sell strategic bombers to another country sounds kinda controversial.

Black Stone; sir
what iam trying to put here is a need of pakistan army to have a medium bomber, which can take out terrorits by might. well ,about getting a bomber, there are different options we hve now;
1. to upto date our old MIRRAGE fighters.
2. to ask US to upgrade our F-16s.
3. contact our all weather friend CHINA, for H-6.

there are no. of choices we already have , & there are a lot of choices we can make, by making our external policy modify. selling and buying of arms were never been a problums today , when we are watching US selling nuck industry to india,& i dont see any difficulty ISRAEL getting advanced radar systems from US.
so, how can be it would be difficult for pakistan getting H-6 from CHINA?

 

[batmannow]

Dear batmannow,
are you suggesting that like Israel's so called loss to hezbollah,hamas, is what pakistan will face in coming future to taliban in fata because of lack of heavy bombers
or you just posted something else in some other thread?

bernard; sir
TYPICAL indian hypocratic , statement.
thats all i can say!

 

[Black Stone]

Black Stone; sir
what iam trying to put here is a need of pakistan army to have a medium bomber, which can take out terrorits by might. well ,about getting a bomber, there are different options we hve now;
1. to upto date our old MIRRAGE fighters.
2. to ask US to upgrade our F-16s.
3. contact our all weather friend CHINA, for H-6.

there are no. of choices we already have , & there are a lot of choices we can make, by making our external policy modify. selling and buying of arms were never been a problums today , when we are watching US selling nuck industry to india,& i dont see any difficulty ISRAEL getting advanced radar systems from US.
so, how can be it would be difficult for pakistan getting H-6 from CHINA?

I see what you mean, but I was referring to pure strategic bombers like the H-6, not fighter-bombers.

In regards to the US-India nuke deal, that has two prespectives, politics and economics. Politics being to use India as a counter weight to China and economics being India's nuke industry is in the billions.

Israel? They are our allies, what more to say.

But I am not suprised if Pakistan ask China for a Sino-Pak nuke deal. It is only natural.

 

[bernard]

bernard; sir
TYPICAL indian hypocratic , statement.
thats all i can say!

atleast i learnt something on this forum

 

[batmannow]

atleast i learnt something on this forum

bernard; sir
i guss, you dont need to learn this great ability because you already have it but thanks for your kind input!

 

[BATMAN]

I don't know about you guys, but nowadays for a country to sell strategic bombers to another country sounds kinda controversial.

In regards to the US-India nuke deal, that has two prespectives, politics and economics. Politics being to use India as a counter weight to China and economics being India's nuke industry is in the billions.

Israel? They are our allies, what more to say.

But I am not suprised if Pakistan ask China for a Sino-Pak nuke deal. It is only natural.

Don't ashame Americans with your .

 

[Black Stone]

Don't ashame Americans with your .

I don't quite understand what you wanted to say, could you please elaborate. But if you don't have any added value to the discussion, then please don't post.