Documentaries on the dark side of the great conquerors/butchers of history.

[Sam_Bajwa]

Traitor how? I think you are speaking from current day perspective, even if his grandfather was Governor of punjab it does not make him traitor to India which is only 67 years old identity. Ranjeet himself was from Gujranwala like Ali Gohar Malhi. Also punjabi muslims were never interested in joining India. Once British made it clear they will only divide empire on religious basis, Punjabi muslims voted for Pakistan over India.

Punjabi Khatris say Raja Porus was Khatri, but i don't think there is any concrete proof to suggest that but anything is possible.

You should ask the mirasi's they can tell you better although from a historical point of view there are fair amount of chances that he may have been a punjabi khatri- Kshatriyas of the punjab but the area of his origin and his physique both point at his being a jat .

And It's not India which is 67 yrs old its pakistan India always existed .

 

[dil_dil]

You should ask the mirasi's they can tell you better although from a historical point of view there are fair amount of chances that he may have been a punjabi khatri- Kshatriyas of the punjab but the area of his origin and his physique both point at his being a jat .

And It's not India which is 67 yrs old its pakistan India always existed .

India always existed just like Indus valley people always existed. I doubt mirasis have thousands of years old record. Punjabi khatris to me look very similar to Sindhi trading biraderi (not average sindhi farmer but trading comunity of sindhi hindus and muslims).

 

[Sam_Bajwa]

India always existed just like Indus valley people always existed. I doubt mirasis have thousands of years old record. Punjabi khatris to me look very similar to Sindhi trading biraderi (not average sindhi farmer but trading comunity of sindhi hindus and muslims).

questioning a mirasis knowledge of history is like questioning sir Newton's knowledge of physics
I wonder if you have mirasi culture anymore ?

Khatris claim they left their warrior creed but as per the varna system they are designated as Kshatriyas they were of aryan stock unlike jats who were scythians. They outnumber any other punjabi tribe as officers in the army but you would rarely find anyone in the ranks since most of them are well educated .

 

[dil_dil]

questioning a mirasis knowledge of history is like questioning sir Newton's knowledge of physics
I wonder if you have mirasi culture anymore ?

Khatris claim they left their warrior creed but as per the varna system they are designated as Kshatriyas they were of aryan stock unlike jats who were scythians. They outnumber any other punjabi tribe as officers in the army but you would rarely find anyone in the ranks since most of them are well educated .

This scythians etc is all theories, not every jatt clan are of similar stock. Our mirasis still have my non-muslim ancestors names which i have been trying to get. I am pretty sure my non-muslim jatt ancestors converted around 200 years ago. But there is no way mirasi record go back thousands of years.

But they sure knows original tribe/clans of people. There was some thread in anthro forum with photos of Sindhi trading caste hindus/muslims and they looked very similar to punjabi khatris. And the fact that both are genetically almost carbon copy of each other, i am pretty sure they are same people.

 

[Sam_Bajwa]

This scythians etc is all theories, not every jatt clan are of similar stock. Our mirasis still have my non-muslim ancestors names which i have been trying to get. I am pretty sure my non-muslim jatt ancestors converted around 200 years ago. But there is no way mirasi record go back thousands of years.

But they sure knows original tribe/clans of people. There was some thread in anthro forum with photos of Sindhi trading caste hindus/muslims and they looked very similar to punjabi khatris. And the fact that both are genetically almost carbon copy of each other, i am pretty sure they are same people.

It's funny how you are describing your ancestors as non-Muslim and not Hindu or ancestor worshipers
200 yrs I don't think that's possible most conversions occurred much before

The khatris lived every where along the Indus they build cities like aror but those were northern parts of sindh . I don't think they have any connection with trading communities of the sindh although some of them may now form a part of it . Khatri in punjabi means a Kshatriya and you cannot deny the fact that they are under that varna even today.

 

[dil_dil]

It's funny how you are describing your ancestors as non-Muslim and not Hindu or ancestor worshipers
200 yrs I don't think that's possible most conversions occurred much before

The khatris lived every where along the Indus they build cities like aror but those were northern parts of sindh . I don't think they have any connection with trading communities of the sindh although some of them may now form a part of it . Khatri in punjabi means a Kshatriya and you cannot deny the fact that they are under that varna even today.

The reason i say 200 years because my ancestor converted 8 generations ago, so around 200 years if 1 generation is 25 years. And yes they were non-muslim before, likely ghost worshippers. To me it seem like punjabi khatris and sindhi khatris have mixed and became same over the centuries.

 

[Sam_Bajwa]

The reason i say 200 years because my ancestor converted 8 generations ago, so around 200 years if 1 generation is 25 years. And yes they were non-muslim before, likely ghost worshippers. To me it seem like punjabi khatris and sindhi khatris have mixed and became same over the centuries.

Brother thanks for sharing can you tell me more about these conversions were these mass conversions or on personal will ?
Also can you tell me how many clans make your biradari ?
Answer if you can otherwise its ok

 

[dil_dil]

Brother thanks for sharing can you tell me more about these conversions were these mass conversions or on personal will ?
Also can you tell me how many clans make your biradari ?
Answer if you can otherwise its ok

Ofcourse they were at personal will no matter what propaganda make you believe. Are you talking about jatt clans in Pakistan? Just from top of my head.. bajwa, sial, tarrar, khar, randhawa, sidhu, sandhu, warraich, chattha, virk, cheema, ranjha, gondal, malhi etc

 

[Sam_Bajwa]

Ofcourse they were at personal will no matter what propaganda make you believe. Are you talking about jatt clans in Pakistan? Just from top of my head.. bajwa, sial, tarrar, khar, randhawa, sidhu, sandhu, warraich, chattha, virk, cheema, ranjha, gondal, malhi etc

I have not used the word forced conversion I was just asking the nature of these conversions by which I meant were these conversions on a large scale like an entire village of the same clan deciding to convert ?

If you take a closer look at the demographics of the punjab hindu population decreased from 44% in 1881 to 29% in 1921 that means conversions were occurring even at that time .
Also you will find that western punjab had much more muslim concentration than its eastern wing. How do you explain this ?

And regarding biradari I was asking about the other clans associated with your clan with whom you intermarry .your clan is natt ?

 

[dil_dil]

I have not used the word forced conversion I was just asking the nature of these conversions by which I meant were these conversions on a large scale like an entire village of the same clan deciding to convert ?

If you take a closer look at the demographics of the punjab hindu population decreased from 44% in 1881 to 29% in 1921 that means conversions were occurring even at that time .
Also you will find that western punjab had much more muslim concentration than its eastern wing. How do you explain this ?

And regarding biradari I was asking about the other clans associated with your clan with whom you intermarry .your clan is natt ?

My clan is not natt, he is movie character. Yes conversion were still happening and only in last British census Punjab became muslim majority with 51% of population. But western punjab was muslim majority long before that, only if we include historical punjab then non-muslims were majority till early 20th century.

although from a historical point of view there are fair amount of chances that he may have been a punjabi khatri- Kshatriyas of the punjab but the area of his origin and his physique both point at his being a jat . .

Porus ruled Jech doab which is between river Jhelum and Chenab ( small kingdom in Punjab), battle of Hydyapass was fought in Bhera which is in current day district Sargoda, again in Jech doab. Ambi who sided with Alexander was from Sindh sagar doab, he ruled area between Indus and Jhelum. Ambhi enemies were Abhisara (Hazara region in KPK) and Porus.

I have seen some Khokhars claiming Porus. Maybe its possible because Khokhars like Shaikha and Jasrath were also from just west of river Chenab, in district Gujrat and Sargodha just like Porus.

Alexander after defeating Porus crossed Chenab and with help of new ally Porus, he killed 5000 people in Sagala (Sialkot), Cathaeans was the tribe which resisted and are identified with current day Kathia tribe who still live in same area. I think poor Ambhi is hated for no reason, even Porus sided with Alexander at the end.

 

[Sam_Bajwa]

Even the mohyals and janjuas claim that raja porus was from their clan
History is not about anyone's perceptions or assumptions its about facts .

How does it matter to you brother I mean you can't respect you own forefathers just because of their religion

 

[dil_dil]

Even the mohyals and janjuas claim that raja porus was from their clan
History is not about anyone's perceptions or assumptions its about facts .

How does it matter to you brother I mean you can't respect you own forefathers just because of their religion

As i said before any ehra ghera now days claim Porus on internet because we do not know anything about his exact tribe equivalent in current day. Anyway Khokhars are from same area/doab as Porus kingdom, thats why they claim it.

Its hard to respect non-muslim western punjabi jats ancestors who were pretty big on girl infanticide just like current day jats of east punjab. In fact Kharral muslims used to do it as recently as 150 years ago. Only Islam have made them humans again.

 

[Sam_Bajwa]

As i said before any ehra ghera now days claim Porus on internet because we do not know anything about his exact tribe equivalent in current day. Anyway Khokhars are from same area/doab as Porus kingdom, thats why they claim it.

Its hard to respect non-muslim western punjabi jats ancestors who were pretty big on girl infanticide just like current day jats of east punjab. In fact Kharral muslims used to do it as recently as 150 years ago. Only Islam have made them humans again.

I can write a book on the pathetic conditions of women in your society.

As per the jat laws you must not marry any one from your fathers , mothers and your grandmothers clan and consider all girls from these clans as your sisters but you are marrying you first cousins you have give up your culture and no one becomes a human by abandoning his culture .

Female infanticide was an ancient practice done by almost every indian tribe you can't point fingure at any one group .

 

[dil_dil]

I can write a book on the pathetic conditions of women in your society.

As per the jat laws you must not marry any one from your fathers , mothers and your grandmothers clan and consider all girls from these clans as your sisters but you are marrying you first cousins you have give up your culture and no one becomes a human by abandoning his culture .

Female infanticide was an ancient practice done by almost every indian tribe you can't point fingure at any one group .

Oh bhai maf karo, there is no such a thing as jat law. Hindu gotras allow marriage in to mother family, plus hindus also marry niece. So don't give me lecture on cousin marriages. Condition of woman when 30% of new girls born are killed or aborted if parents are rich. lol

The only famous jat law was infanticide.

 

[Sam_Bajwa]

Oh bhai maf karo, there is no such a thing as jat law. Hindu gotras allow marriage in to mother family, plus hindus also marry niece. So don't give me lecture on cousin marriages. Condition of woman when 30% of new girls born are killed or aborted if parents are rich. lol

The only famous jat law was infanticide.

Like I have already said you have abandoned your culture that's the reason you know nothing of your past.
The jats have a democratic law fabrication system called the Khap.
Every clan has its khap which is headed by the leader of that clan and all elders of the clan are its members all these khaps combine to form the sarvkhap which is the temporal authority of the jats any order passed in these khaps are held in high regards by the jats .

And regarding the same gotra marriage it's not a part of the indian society and jats in particular let me give you an example

These two were from the same gotra though they had no family relation they eloped and married in Delhi the girls family brought them back killed both of them beheaded the boy and threw his head outside his house.

Parents murder daughter, lover for ‘honour’ in Haryana


Despite the Supreme Court’s strictures, Haryana’s shame through “honour killings” continued as a couple were brutally killed in full public view on Wednesday at Gharnavathi in Rohtak, home district of Chief Minister Bhupinder Singh Hooda.

Nidhi Barak, 20, was lynched by her own family and they broke the limbs of Dharmendra Barak, 23, before beheading him and dumping the body in front of his house. The police have arrested Nidhi’s parents, brother and uncle and are on the lookout for others involved in the killing.

Some witnesses have also been detained

Nidhi and Dharmendra were studying in Rohtak, 10 km from their village, and were in a relationship for almost three years. When both went missing on Tuesday, Nidhi’s family got in touch with her and persuaded them to return home, with the promise that they would not be harmed. As they returned on Wednesday, Nidhi’s family took them to their house and killed them.

Her family rushed to cremate Nidhi’s body, but Kalanaur SHO Ramesh Kumar reached the spot with a police party and recovered the half-burnt body, which along with Dharmendra’s, was sent for autopsy. Nidhi’s family, which runs a thriving dog-breeding business, is said to wield major influence in the region. Dharmendra’s family is into farming.

The families, of the same “gotra,” told the police that the couple eloped on Tuesday to get married in Delhi, 90 km away.

The brutal killing is yet another reminder of the power “khap panchayats” wield, issuing diktats against marriages within the same ‘gotra’ (clan) and in the same village or even ‘bhaichara’ (brotherhood). In Haryana, there have been numerous cases of couples having defied the Khap diktat and paid the price with their lives.

Last year, the Supreme Court asked its amicus curiae as well as the State governments to devise a legal regime that could prevent “Taliban-like groups” from inciting executions of couples of the same “gotras.” NGO Shakti Vahini had petitioned the court for intervention against extra-judicial killings in the name of community honour, and for holding “khap” members accountable for such crimes. In 2011, the court ruled that “honour killings” came under the category of the “rarest of rare” cases and those indulging in such crimes should be awarded death penalty

As in the past, mindful of the influence of the “khaps” in politics, most of the parties, especially the ruling Congress and the Indian National Lok Dal, have avoided comments on the Rohtak killing. However, Haryana Janhit Congress chief Kuldip Bishnoi has condemned the incident.

Savita, secretary of the All-India Democratic Women’s Association in Haryana, said the State, which had recorded dozens of such killings, had done nothing to curb the crime. Reiterating the AIDWA’s demand for separate legislation against honour killings, she pointed out that a memorandum containing over one lakh signatures was submitted to the Union Law Minister a few months ago, along with draft legislation. However, the draft was not tabled in Parliament owing to opposition from the Haryana government and pressure from the “khaps.”

Source -- Parents murder daughter, lover for ‘honour’ in Haryana - The Hindu

I can post 100 such examples.