Doctor, engineer masterminded attack on ISI HQ

[S-2]

"Every one knows and even number oftimes USA Administration accepted that it was their fault..."

Fault? I accept that along with the PRC, Great Britain, France, W. Germany, and Pakistan that we raised forth the afghan mujahideen to fight the Soviets.

So?

What most Pakistanis conveniently ignore is that the mujahideen included far more than simply those we fight now. They included many, many hazara, uzbek, tajik, and turkomen afghans. Virtually none of whom are our enemy today.

Of those former mujahideen whom remain fighting as taliban now, virtually all are very senior commanders like Omar, Haqqani, and Hekmatyar. Virtually all are pashtu. Virtually all their combatant soldiers, though, are too young to even remember the Soviets.

As for OBL, the truth for you may be painful but we didn't have a clue whom he was nor whom he'd become. Just a guy with money from KSA who wanted to play soldier for the cause.

The taliban, though, arose not from the Afghan-Soviet war but from the Afghan Civil War that followed. They didn't arise from the tribal belt of Pakistan but from Oruzgan province. They didn't arise in 1979-80 but, instead, in 1994.

America was LONG gone from those lands by then. You weren't though. Pakistan's games in Afghanistan continued long after we left. Why do you ignore that fact?

When the taliban did emerge, it was Benazir Bhutto who in 1994 decided that they'd hold greater value to Pakistan than your other protege, Hekmatyar, who was unceremoniously dumped for Omar.

Why? Simple. Hekmatyar held no sway in the afghan south. All his power resided in the Kabul-Jalalabad axis. He couldn't lift the brigand tollgates between Quetta and CAR that were costing the Pakistani trucking mafia huge sums monthly to facilitate goods back and forth from CAR via the Quetta, Kandahar, Lashkar Gar, Herat route.

Omar could and did hold that route open for Pakistan's trucking companies and thus were born the taliban. For that he became your ISI's lackey replacing Hekmatyar in most favored status. In 1996, the afghan taliban captured Kabul and assumed power.

Don't like it? Ask Ahmed Rashid to explain it to you.

That ends the lesson for today.

Thanks.

 

[Javed3]

Dear S-2:

Before you blame Benazir and pakistan for the fiasco,
Please do some research and find out the answers to the following questions:

1. How long did Hamid karzai serve as Hekmatyar's Foreign Minister?

2. After Hamid karzai escaped Kabul, when did he join UNICOL (halliburton) as Procurement Administrator and where was he posted?

3. What was his relation to Zalmay Khalilzad and Condoleeza Rice?

4. Did he ever become a member of the Taliban movement?

5. Who paid a Ukrainian company for maintenance and support of Taliban Air Force Mig-21s and SU-22's?

6. Was there a Taliban Consulate in Queens, NY till early 2001? Who paid for its operation?

7. How, when and why did Taliban cross lines with Ms Rabin Rafeal?

 

[illuminatus]

Dear S-2:

Before you blame Benazir and pakistan for the fiasco,
Please do some research and find out the answers to the following questions:

1. How long did Hamid karzai serve as Hekmatyar's Foreign Minister?

2. After Hamid karzai escaped Kabul, when did he join UNICOL (halliburton) as Procurement Administrator and where was he posted?

3. What was his relation to Zalmay Khalilzad and Condoleeza Rice?

4. Did he ever become a member of the Taliban movement?

5. Who paid a Ukrainian company for maintenance and support of Taliban Air Force Mig-21s and SU-22's?

6. Was there a Taliban Consulate in Queens, NY till early 2001? Who paid for its operation?

7. How, when and why did Taliban cross lines with Ms Rabin Rafeal?

There are a plethora of questions that need to be answered. It's very easy for the US to find a scapegoat and point fingers at. Which by the way isn't going to help the cause in anyway. The blame game will only add more suspicion and deteriorate an already fragile relation. Something that the US can hardly afford at such a crucial phase in the WoT. The blame game partly stems from frustration and failure in Afghanistan. The war is becoming more unpopular at home by the day. The war is costing a lot of innocent lives which isn't winning the heart and minds of the locals. Additionally, the war is costing a lot of dollars when the US economy isn't in the best of shape. Who could have expected the US to announce a withdrawal date? These are all signs that the US has realized that the war is not winnable.

 

[All-Green]

The outside support is suspected in the planning stage...the execution so far has been by TTP and other such local organizations which are affiliated with Al Qaeda as well.

The espionage, gathering of information, identification of targets and the strategic planning and administration till the execution branch takes over is something that is suspected of being aided by external anti Pakistan groups and not just all the work of the local thugs of TTP...
The TTP does not have the capability to have a strategic and tactical insight aided by high level intelligence...which is usually not all seen by the public due to confidentiality...
However to those who have more information...some hits by TTP were definitely too much to accept as simply their effort...it was definitely aided and meticulously planned based on information that a normal terrorist will not have access to...without support from some very capable outfit...

We need to break the back of TTP but i hope that we identify and nail those who are aiding in the more specialist aspect of these terrorist attacks, when this happens TTP will automatically lose its venom...we need more focused espionage backed up by diplomatic pressure and high level Geo-strategic decisions to unveil the entire picture and tackle this monster....

As some would know that a month ago, Erik Prince the Blackwater CEO admitted of planning to stay in Marriott the day it was bombed, only a family emergency changed his plans and he did not fly to Pakistan...as per some agencies...the intercepts and moles revealed that the attack was targeted against high level US intelligence assets, but local agencies knew of no such American of note staying in the hotel at the time when the bombing took place, it was really a mystery for many as to what the talk about high level intelligence assets was about...
This startling revelation by Erik makes one wonder...not many people knew the nature of his involvement with CIA in Pakistan and certainly his travel plans were not that open...this was not even known to local agencies, how this information leaked is something that is not simple...it means there is a group which can infiltrate highly secure agencies and gather a lot of information which TTP has no way of gathering...Al Qaeda certainly used TTP but who is providing the information...is there a rogue entity aiding Al Qaeda in all this?
This is only one example but there are many other pieces of the puzzle which do not fit...suffice to say...there is more to TTP than what meets the eye...this is something only a retarded Intelligence Agency would not suspect of...
Let us hope we grab the masterminds and unveil the mystery...

 

[S-2]

Nice try but the dissemblance you offer has nothing to do with the taliban's rise to power via your country's assistance.

Karzai was offered the position of taliban ambassador to the U.N. He didn't accept. Nor was he employed as "Procurement Administrator" for UNOCAL. Do you need quotes from UNOCAL to confirm such. If so, here-

Barry Lane, P.R. Director UNOCAL-July 9, 2002

"No. No, not him [Karzai]. He was never a consultant, never an employee. We've exhaustively searched through all our records to try and find out where the hell that came from."

Read the interview. It's right up your alley. All the rest is superfluous given the fact that the above renders your other suggested allegations moot.

The most dynamic proof of vested interests in the taliban's success continues to reside on your lands amidst sanctuary.

Says it all and all is too much.

Thanks.

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

America was LONG gone from those lands by then. You weren't though. Pakistan's games in Afghanistan continued long after we left. Why do you ignore that fact?

When the taliban did emerge, it was Benazir Bhutto who in 1994 decided that they'd hold greater value to Pakistan than your other protege, Hekmatyar, who was unceremoniously dumped for Omar.

Why? Simple. Hekmatyar held no sway in the afghan south. All his power resided in the Kabul-Jalalabad axis. He couldn't lift the brigand tollgates between Quetta and CAR that were costing the Pakistani trucking mafia huge sums monthly to facilitate goods back and forth from CAR via the Quetta, Kandahar, Lashkar Gar, Herat route.

Omar could and did hold that route open for Pakistan's trucking companies and thus were born the taliban. For that he became your ISI's lackey replacing Hekmatyar in most favored status. In 1996, the afghan taliban captured Kabul and assumed power.

Don't like it? Ask Ahmed Rashid to explain it to you.

Though theres is some truth in it . But the US along with KSA did also recognised the taliban when their gov was established in 1996. Things were going very well untill an Oil company called Unacol came along to transport the oil and gas from CAR to the Gawader port from where the oil tankers would fill in and then set sail to US and Europe. The other oil companies of Agertina , China and Russia were also competing for that project .The whole pipeline which passed through Afghanistan was off 440 KM in lenth. The proposals which were given to taliban by the Unacoll were not accepted by the Talibans . After that the company Board gaved a presentation to the US congress that our negotiations with the Taliban have failed and if you want us to do business there a Regime Change in Afghanistan is must . So the US congress manipulated a few changes in its foreign policy . Then followed the execution with the help of 9/11 . Rest is all you may know ....!

And also guess who were the company's board of Governors...The Old Dick Chenny and that Condy and many more in the Bush's Admin.....!!!

Its an Economic war btw America and PRC and Russia. And you guys are here just to chase the dead Mascott(OBL) of Taliban or AQ whose bones might have rotten up till now .... !!!

 

[BATMAN]

"Wasn't Zawahiri a mossad operative and OBL a CIA employee?"

Do you have paystubs as proof?

We DO know that they are muslim terrorists whom have found safety in Pakistan.

Thanks.

Only God knows who is Muslim or not? Your insisting does not make any one Muslim! tomorrow you will declare them prophet with all the logic than shall we believe you?
It is very funny when you ask for proof of under cover agents!
Some how the cover of fame boy OBL is busted and even children knows he is CIA operative and is enjoying his retirement some where in US.

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

One may ask why the US supported the weaker and corrupt Northeren Allighence . The Hamid Karzai was the one who accpted the unacoll demands and also he was the one who negotiated with the talibans from the unacoll side just to get the deal done . But the taliban rejected the offer and paid the price , infact its the US who is paying the price for its corrupt and demonic ways to support its economic takeover of the third world countries..

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

Unocal was one of the key players in the CentGas consortium, an attempt to build the Trans-Afghanistan Pipeline to run from the Caspian area, through Afghanistan and probably Pakistan, to the Indian Ocean. One of the consultants to Unocal at that time was Zalmay Khalilzad, former US ambassador to Afghanistan then to Iraq and currently to the UN.

In the 1980s CIA chief Bill Casey had revived the agency's practise of gaining intelligence from traveling businessmen. Marty Miller, one of Unocal's top executives, conducted negotiations in several Central Asian countries from 1995, and voluntarily provided information gained on these trips to the CIA's Houston station.[6]

In 1996 Unocal opened an office in Kandahar, Afghanistan, while the Taliban were in the process of taking control of the country.

Unocal rented a house in central Kandahar directly across the street from one of [Osama] bin Laden's new compounds. They did not choose this location deliberately. Most of the decent houses in town straddled the Herat Bazaar Road. Also near was the Pakistani consulate, which housed officers from [the Pakistani military Inter-Services Intelligence, the] ISI.[7]

In 1997,

Robert Oakley [ex-US ambassador to Pakistan, now Unocal's ad hoc advisory board] advised Miller to reach the Taliban by working through Pakistan's government [then led by Benazir Bhutto]. He also suggested that Unocal hire Thomas Gouttiere, an Afghan specialist at the University of Nebraska at Omaha, to develop a job training program in Kandahar that would teach Pashtuns the technical skills needed to build a pipeline. ... Unocal agreed to pay $900,000 via the University of Nebraska to set up a Unocal training facility on a fifty-six acre site in Kandahar, not far from bin Laden's compounds. ... Gouttiere traveled in and out of Afghanistan and met with Taliban leaders. ... In December 1997 Gouttiere worked with Miller to arrange for another Taliban delegation to visit the United States. ...[8]

Unocal seems to have had a deeper role. Intelligence "whistleblower" Julie Sirrs claimed that anti-Taliban leader Ahmad Shah Massoud told her he had "proof that Unocal had provided money that helped the Taliban take Kabul [in 1996]".[9] And French journalist Richard Labeviere said, referring to the later 1990s, "The CIA and Unocal's security forces ... provided military weapons and instructors to several Taleban militia ..."[10]

The Taleban and Unocal were in negotiations in Texas to discuss arrangements for the gas pipeline from Turkmenistan to Pakistan in 1997 and a deal was struck but later failed [11].

The failure was believed to be because the deal was going to be struck with Bridas, an Argentinian company. [12]

The CentGas pipeline was not built, due to the inability of CentGas and the Taliban to come to a mutually acceptable economic understanding although rumours about a deal with Argentinian company Bridas were widespread [13].

The Argentinian economy collapsed soon after this deal had been struck. [14]

Unocal was also the third largest member of the recently completed and opened Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan pipeline from the Caspian Sea to the Mediterranean Sea.

Unocal Corporation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Bridas began exanding into the Central Asian energy sector in 1987, and secured its first large-scale contract (gas exploration rights in Turkmenistan), in 1992.[4] Between 1995 and 1997, CEO Carlos Bulgheroni was personally involved in negotiations between Bridas and the governments of Pakistan and Turkmenistan, as well as the ruling Taliban faction in Afghanistan, to built the Trans-Afghanistan Gas Pipeline.[5] These negotiations were in competition with those undertaken by Unocal,[6] and although an agreement with Unocal-led corporation CentGas was reached, the deal was forfeited in January 1998 in favor of one with Bridas.[7] Instability in Afghanistan delayed construction of the pipeline, however, and following the United States Invasion of Afghanistan in October 2001, the Bridas contract was rescinded in favor of the former one with Unocal. In 2006, Bulgheroni indicated interest in Bridas' involvement with the Trans-Afghanistan Pipeline project, which continued to be hampered by the ongoing war in the Central Asian nation.[8]

The Bulgheroni family sold 60% of Bridas to Amoco in 1997 for US$550 million,[1] and in turn, established a joint venture with British Petroleum, Pan American Energy; Bridas and BP purchased Houston-based Allis-Chalmers, in 2006. The company sold its 40% stake therein and other assets, totaling an estimated US$5 billion (around half the company's total), in 2005 to China National Petroleum,[2] in a bid to gain greater access to the growing Chinese energy market.

Bridas Corporation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

Now one cannot deny the CIAs presence in Afghanistan when the soviets left.

I gues we should not follow the light at the end of the tunnel coz in the middle we would get boged down...

 

[SMC]

why so? care to elaborate...

Because we're not saying RAW is planning attacks. We're saying it is providing funding to the terrorists to continue terrorism. RAW may well be involved in planning individual attack but not being involved in one attack doesn't mean they are not involved with others. Moreover, RAW may well have funded these guys to carry out this attack too. That's all speculation but it doesn't disprove RAW involvement.

 

[S-2]

"Some how the cover of fame boy OBL is busted and even children knows he is CIA operative and is enjoying his retirement some where in US."

Sure, BATMAN. And you live in a BATCAVE under a mansion with ROBIN and your butler...

...and the batmobile.

Thanks.

 

[SekrutYakhni]

well besides saying RAW is involved in attacks(they are)....our people are also involved in these activities with no links to foreign powers...

Media, Politicians, Generals in my opinion did not play a good role during Musharaf's era...
They gave statements that TTP were fundamentalists, Islamist, got the wrong meaning of Islam..Musharaf wrote in his book about fundamentalists....

These news surrounded us for good 5 to 6 years and by that time people started to sympathize will TTP as they were portrayed Islamic and our military was portrayed American Police...
So people joined hands with TTP philosophy as they wanted to implement Sharia ... which people demand

So basically people went on TTP side until Musharaf left...

The perception of TTP was drastically changed and they were accused to be pro Indians!
Now people started to think PA is fighting against RAW, CIA, MOSSAD etc..and people went on PA side...

I don't know which one is right..
All I know is why did generals went out and gave statements which were never true under kiyani's rule...

TTP>>> Islamist under Mushara's era
TTP >>> RAW agents under Kiyani..


BUT

By judging TTP and their stuff I think TTP are pro Indian people...

This is my personal opinion...anyone can differ....be respectful though!

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

OBL is nothing more than a mascott for this WOT designed for the Economic Takeover of the CARs. But America has drastically failed .
Wats the reason of keeping OBL still alive .. to scapegoat Pakistan ...?