Do you think religion is a personal matter ?

[El Sidd]

 

[SecularNationalist]

I disagree. All societies have a concept of good or bad built on religion. Morality and religion are intertwined. Some societies have morality built on more than one religion. Cultural norms also form a part of our morality. When people judge others, they do it based on all of that.

Nobody knows if i pray, or if i go into the room next door and come back after 5 minutes. I might be in congregation and merely bowing for exercise. Anyone who judges someone on outward appearance is an idiot, whether they are judging someone on the religious appearance or the message on the T-shirt they are wearing. Having said that, we will take our perception of someones piety into account when forming a judgement. The problem comes in when that is all you have to base a judgement on.

Judge others on a basis of cultural norms which should not be based on religion also judgement should practical and compatible with modern society.It,s a simple matter or what work or what does not work or what is right or wrong and you do not need a religion to know that.However no problem at all if religion dictates your personal way of life but do not expect others to live and think like you.

 

[war&peace]

Dude what is this is non sense?? So we as a muslim majority country don,t use words like randi,gashti etc ?? Religious scholars even use such words abundantly i.e khadim rizvi .

Mate, overall the societies are degenerating everywhere but on the whole religious people with education are much better. In Pakistan a lot of religious people are too illiterate to be called religious because they can't understand the religion. Khadim Hussain Rizvi is not a good example, he is a badly educated mullah with very little understanding and I personally think that he basically damaged TLY movement because of his bad manners, a lot of educated people refrained from joining it.

 

[Cthulhu]

 

[war&peace]

Not racism, exactly; it's due to the tangled web of do's and dont's that many Indians live by. Too long to explain, but I have been watching this for a life-time, and never cease to be amazed at what happens in daily life.

Mate, I think those do's and don'ts are driven by hate and racism. But definitely people in the subcontinent are not educated enough to differentiate what's racist and what's not and I admit that western people are racist but they are normally good at hiding it because they are aware of it and they let it flow where they feel it will not backfire. So on camera, or any setting where things get documented / recorded, they seldom display racist behaviour. So surveys will always show that western people are not racist. But interacting with Indian people online and reading the news, I'm pretty convinced racism is quite high in India.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Mate, I think those do's and don'ts are driven by hate and racism. But definitely people in the subcontinent are not educated enough to differentiate that is racist and what's not and I admit that western people are racist but they are normally good at hiding it because they are aware of it and they let it flow where they feel it will not backfire. So on camera, or any setting where things get documented / recorded, they seldom display racist behaviour. So surveys will always show that western people are not racist. But interacting with Indian people online and reading the news, I'm pretty convinced racism is quite high in India.

An interesting topic. There is a widespread belief that Indians have a propensity to colour-based and even genetic racism; some of Gandhi's most loopy remarks are quoted as evidence.

I think, as I said, that it's rather complex.

Open a thread; let's talk about it, I'd like to get some other Indian opinions on this too, but give it till tomorrow.

 

[Zarvan]

Believing in one God,praying to him,fasting in Ramadan, Paying Zakat to the poor, performing Hajj, staying away from haram, treating others with respect and differentiating between the lawful and unlawful.

Where exactly have you found the role of a state in this ?



And you'd agree if someone said the same thing about Hinduism or Christianity and shove it down the throat of local Muslims ?

In Muslim majority states Islam takes the lead those things not allowed in Islam will not be accepted or allowed. Those who say same for other religions I have no until they also don't claim to be secular

 

[SecularNationalist]

Mate, overall the societies are degenerating everywhere but on the whole religious people with education are much better. In Pakistan a lot of religious people are too illiterate to be called religious because they can't understand the religion. Khadim Hussain Rizvi is not a good example, he is a badly educated mullah with very little understanding and I personally think that he basically damaged TLY movement because of his bad manners, a lot of educated people refrained from joining it.

And there are lot of people with no religious education at all dont use such words and have good speaking manners.Hence it,s not true at all that people with religious education dont use nasty words and are good people.
I personally knew many russian atheists who never used such words during conversation.They were soft spoken people with good manners.

 

[Proudpakistaniguy]

Religion is very much personal matter when you are living in secular state/multicultural/multi religious country where religion is just limited to your personal life. Strangley some of these secular countries actually appear more Islamic than most Muslim or Islamic countries when we talk about Haquuq ul abaad( Rights of people) i.e protecting life and honour of every citizens, justice for everyone, equality( laws against racism and discrimiation), same punishment for criminals no matter whether he is rich or poor , powerful or weak etc , social welfare syetems.

Islamic or Muslim countries implemented selcetive Islam such poorly that it brought nothing but intolerance , bigotry and violence in society. You need perfect Muslim selfless rulers like those of four caliphas to implement Islam perfectly at state level to cover all aspects but these days Islam is being used just for personal gains and advantages

 

[TheLahoriGuy]

In Muslim majority states Islam takes the lead those things not allowed in Islam will not be accepted or allowed. Those who say same for other religions I have no until they also don't claim to be secular

So if India dropped the claim to secularism Im assuming I wouldn't see you complaining when Muslims gets lynched for eating beef and women getting burned when their husbands die would I ?

 

[nang2]

When you are brought up in a religious society, where believers are the "superior" people and the infidels are who are "wasted people" who, anyways will go to hell - This, surely is no more a personal matter, it affects a whole country turn religious bigots. But, they won't understand. There are enough examples mocking Jews, Christians for being corrupt and Hindus as enemies. Bigotry is something which is natural.

Bigotry is only an expediency some people choose to adopt when they lack achievement in their own endeavor or belief. It is self-delusion that helps hide their ineffectuality from themselves and from others. In another word, it is just a sad scene when such people claim to be religious.

 

[Solomon2]

That is only needed in a society where without religion(Islam in this case) the people are clueless,when its the only thing that binds them(sense of unity,law ethic etc),the only thing they fear.
In a society where all this is already present,you dont need religion to tell you what to do or how to behave.
Your Blasphemy law is an example of this.

Secular morals and ethics change with time ... Morality derived from religion doesn't .. But that is another debate

Is it? I think you've hit it on the nose, M. Sarmad.

 

[Zarvan]

So if India dropped the claim to secularism Im assuming I wouldn't see you complaining when Muslims gets lynched for eating beef and women getting burned when their husbands die would I ?

No but world should also not cry if we start a nuclear war and everything vanishes in Air

Judge others on a basis of cultural norms which should not be based on religion also judgement should practical and compatible with modern society.It,s a simple matter or what work or what does not work or what is right or wrong and you do not need a religion to know that.However no problem at all if religion dictates your personal way of life but do not expect others to live and think like you.

For Muslims it's based on Islam because for Muslims Islam is the first and last thing they stand with and always will stand with. We give a dam about other criteria of judging. For me what is assuming is those people who believe in GOD being creator and still think they know better than GOD

 

[Cherokee]

Yes , just live every other superstition.

 

[I.R.A]

Believing in one God,praying to him,fasting in Ramadan, Paying Zakat to the poor, performing Hajj, staying away from haram, treating others with respect and differentiating between the lawful and unlawful.

Where exactly have you found the role of a state in this ?

Do you understand the difference between religion i.e. "Mazhab" and Deen i.e. say "Social order" ? Just to check how much influenced you are with traditional definitions, assumptions and beliefs that you have been fed since childhood .....

Islam is deen and shia sunni are mazhab ......... if fasting, speaking truth, refraining from adultery, not drinking, praying, performing rituals etc were Deen .... then this is all present in other religions as well .... have you ever wondered then why Islam should be different from other religions? What is so special about Islam, if all that your traditional narratives promoted as being Islam, are already present in older religions then why there is need for Islam? They too believe in God.

Think and leave the traditional conservative preconceived beliefs aside ..... read again with a blank mind and you may understand why Islam is different and why a state is necessary.