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Do Pak textbooks build a hate culture against India?

I think your 'NO' contradicts with your arguement that people should know the facts.

I don't think so.How do you understand that?

If it is true that history is distorted in Pakistan's text books, then they are bound to create a bad mark on children who will keep it all along.

No Ifs No buts.Lets just consider what actually happens.

I think SATI is well known in Indian history. I read about it in my fifth grade. The system was already abolished during British rule due to efforts by social reformers. And no traces of it anywhere recently.

No argument whether or not it was abolished or by whom.I take it as an example to explain the facts.We just read about it and many other things.

But Indians are taught about the caste system and SATI without any indignation. Everybody accepts it as history. OBviously no one stands by it.

No indignation in Pakistan either.No irascibility but it is unacceptable.Vinod agreed, you agree and it validates my point..
So what is it you are saying? Were you under the impression that Indians are not taught about 'SATI'

I would be the most self-centered and introspective person in the world if I were under this kind of impression.Ofcourse Indians read about their history in Schools,so do we.
 
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Perhaps I should ask you this first.
Do you agree about the 10 myths as being circulating in Pakistan as true history?
In text books that is...


Btw what happenend to that GMAT thread?
 
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Perhaps I should ask you this first.
Do you agree about the 10 myths as being circulating in Pakistan as true history?
In text books that is...

Well...there's always room for correction and it's never too late to make a difference.Besides its not everything that's taught in textbooks.Furthermore, there might be some myths in Indian history too....make-beliefs considered as beliefs.

Btw what happenend to that GMAT thread?
Don't forget to drop by and leave your knowledgable comments that might benefit us.:)
 
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We can't do much about the past and many of us are not in any way responsible or connected to the wrongdoings in either country. What is important and relevant for us (who have not yet been butchered by fanatics in either country) is to see where the two countries are headed. It’s worth wondering how the two countries would look like in say 10, 20 years.
 
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The questions raised on this and the other thread were not related to the 'objectives' of the curriculum, but quite clearly on whether the curriculum had managed to imbue Pakistanis with certain attitudes.

There is no doubt over where Indians go with this line of thought, as seen by their posts in various other forums.

The question in the thread title is quite clear, and the evidence indicating the answer to be a big NO is also equally clear.

A question regarding the 'objectives' behind certain 'distortions' would be an entirely different one.

Before we move on to that question, you can either rebut the evidence and arguments made that Pakistanis have not been brainwashed or imbued with attitudes significantly different from those found in India, or accept it.

Well, the opinion polls while presenting one set of facts are not sufficient to prove that the curriculum is not having the impact it was designed to have.

Unless we see the sample size, statistical errors etc. it would be hasty to draw conclusions from that.

Then there is the fact of so many other facts that present themselves. Pakistani media writings, the various anti-India groups in Pakistan that actually attract people who are ready to kill themselves and innocents in India, the inclinations of many people in this forum and some other more extreme ones, the youtube videos posted by Pakistanis, popularity of the likes of Zaid Hamid and his anti-India message etc. do convey a picture different from your conclusions here.

The ease with which so many people in Pakistan start bashing "Hindu" India is a proof that the people who designed the curriculum did not totally fail in their attempts.
 
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Well...there's always room for correction and it's never too late to make a difference.Besides its not everything that's taught in textbooks.Furthermore, there might be some myths in Indian history too....make-beliefs considered as beliefs.


Don't forget to drop by and leave your knowledgable comments that might benefit us.:)

I was looking for a yes or no kind of answer.

If yes even to a certain extent, then the point drives home by itself.

If no... I don't think there will be no here. You were not rejecting anything.

But there indeed is always room for correction.
There might me myths in Indian textbooks?
May be...
I haven't found any as of now...
Will post if I found one.

One possibility is Aurangzeb's tolerance but this is an issue of debate.
But this does not add to Pakistan's hate in anyway. Because history is told as Indian history here. Not as of Muslims history or Hindus history. And Pakistan is not associated with Muslims as India is with Hindus among Paksitanis.
 
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Alright Rubyjackass ! if You are looking for a personal individual opinion.Then the answer is No.
I suggest you to please consult my previous posts.I have made everything very clear.There are no myths in Pakistani textbooks either.Everything's based on facts.and history proves it.Indian culture, architecture, religious aspects, the Brahman Shodar system and all.Its all true.and I don't hate India.I don't hate Indians.I hate the founders and seconders of the low caste system and Satti and other excruciating acts against humanity.I have seen indian architecture in Pakistan.They are the same as described in those books.You're impugning something that doesn't even exist.
we present facts in front of the world and we criticize something...these two things are totally opposite to each other.
Not all those myths are true.I read 'em.
one of them is "All Pakistanis hate India"(earlier posted by afriend)...I don't understand how the author got across this but it is really a myth and It is not worth mentioning in those TEN myths because I believe that this myth never existed.

Myth 7
The Muslim League was the only representative body of the Muslims.

It is an incontrovertible fact that it was only after 1940 that the Muslim League established itself as a popular party among the Muslims. Prior to that, as evident in the 1937 elections, the Muslim League did not succeed in forming the government in any of the Muslim majority provinces. In those elections, out of the total of 482 Muslim seats, the Muslim League won only 103 (less than one-fourth of the total). Other seats went either to Congress Muslims or to nationalist parties such as the Punjab Unionist Party, the Sind Unionist Party and the Krishak Proja Party of Bengal.

Its a pity.I disagree.These political parties never establish overnight.Its a matter of time before it actually starts representing a particular objective of a certain group of people.We work on it...we plan things..plans change ..we negotiate before we are ready to speak our mind to people...and to understand people's mind ...their desires..we got to be THEM..then and only then we can win their trust.And thats exactly what happened in case of Muslim League.It succeeded in exceeding expections of Muslims, win their trust and open their eyes to reality in a short span of time.Hence it emerged as the only Representative political body of Mslims.Otherwise as many Muslim countries would have come into existence as those Muslim political parties.
 
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ilovef16, you don't study history in Pakistan. You study something called "Pakistan studies". Obviously you do that at an impressionable age and are led to believe it is all facts. It is NOT.

These myths represent only a part of the confusions and falsehoods that so many Pakistani live with thinking them to be the absolute truths. There are many many more. That is why so many absolute hate mongering zombies are produced who are good for nothing but either being actual or closet bombers.

I have to disagree with AM that it is not the case. I see them in large numbers all around. Of course there are many who beat the system and can take that with a pinch of salt. They seem to be fewer in numbers and are so despite the syatem.

You may feel only India and Hindus have problems while Pakistan and Islam don't. You are led to believe you are a victim of worldwide conspiracies. The likes of Zaid claim that the world war were fought only to subjugate Muslims and it is eagerly lapped up by many Pakistanis including some of the more knowledgeable ones here. They never stop to question him why the French and Germans lost millions and millions fighting each other in the trenches if that was the case.

I know that in the Islamic system of studies, being critical and asking questions is not encouraged. People are expected to believe unquestioningly anything they are being fed and they learn to adapt.
 
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We can't do much about the past and many of us are not in any way responsible or connected to the wrongdoings in either country. What is important and relevant for us (who have not yet been butchered by fanatics in either country) is to see where the two countries are headed. It’s worth wondering how the two countries would look like in say 10, 20 years.

Would you forget an indian who raped a 'family member' of yours, 60 years ago? Or killed your family or still doing in kashmir etc.
 
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Indian culture, architecture, religious aspects, the Brahman Shodar system and all.Its all true.and I don't hate India.I don't hate Indians.I hate the founders and seconders of the low caste system and Satti and other excruciating acts against humanity.

Oh please. Indian textbooks write extensively about the evils of the caste system and Sati and all that, but they do it without drilling home the point that "hindus and brahmins inherently cunning and immoral".

I can imagine the uproar in India if textbooks began to mention the disgusting aspects of Sharia law, the repressive nature of the burkha, the "evils of Islam" such as honour killings, the attitude towards non-muslims as "inferior" and "jahils" and "kaffirs", and the complete absence of freedom of religion in Islam (Death for apostasy).

Or the violence and destruction that followed the arrival of the first muslim conquerers, intent of subjugating the "inferior" race and religion.

Indian history textbooks focus predominantly on the evils of Hinduism, and tend to brush over the negative aspects of Islam in order to be "secular".

On the other hand, in your country, your textbooks focus on glorifying Islam and teaching the evils of Hinduism. That's very strange since there are hardly 1 percent hindus in Pakistan, and I fail to see why it is considered more important to teach the negative aspects of a different society than their own.



From their government issued textbooks, students are taught that Hindus are backwards, superstitious, they burn their widows and wives, and that Brahmins are inherently cruel, and if given a chance, would assert their power over the weak, especially Muslims and Shuddras, depriving them of education by pouring molten lead in their ears.12 In their social studies classes, students are taught that Islam brought peace, equality, and justice to the Subcontinent and only through Islam could the sinister ways of Hindus be held in check. In Pakistani textbooks “Hindu” rarely appears in a sentence without adjectives such as politically astute, sly, or manipulative.

http://uropinion.sulekha.com/blog/p...tbooks-politics-of-prejudice-by-shareryar.htm

Really? Brahmins are inherently cruel? Isn't that caste discrimination, even racism? Isn't that the same as saying that Jews are "dogs and pigs", as it does in Saudi textbooks?

If Islam brought peace and equality, why is it that the most backward parts of India, where caste discrimination is at its worst, happen to be in what were muslim strongholds for the longest periods of time? Uttar Pradesh? Bihar?

Why is it that the parts of India which remained under the "Evil and cruel' brahmins are doing far, far better than any province in Pakistan? (Kerala?, Tamil Nadu?, Karnataka?)
 
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Creating a Pakistan of distortions

Author: Amit Bhattacharya/ New Delhi
Publication: The Pioneer
Date: July 13, 2003

*Hindus worship in temples which are narrow and dark places, where they worship idols. Only one person can enter the temple at a time. In mosques, on the other hand, all Muslims can say their prayers together.

*The religion of the Hindus did not teach them good things - Hindus did not respect women.

*Hindus, who have been opportunists, co-operated with the English


These aren't the views of a blinkered mullah in an obscure madarsa. They are passages from Pakistan Government-approved social studies textbooks being taught to students of Class IV to VI in the Pak province of Punjab.

Such and other illuminating instances of how young minds in Pakistan are being fed on falsehoods and hatred, find mention in a recently released document, The Subtle Subversion - The State of Curricula and Textbooks in Pakistan, prepared by the Islamabad-based Sustainable Development Policy Institute.

The document, part of an independent initiative for furthering a 'progressive, moderate and democratic Pakistan', highlights the extent to which public education is being used as a tool of national and social indoctrination for political ends. This, the study notes, 'has created deep social problems and encouraged the development of a more violent polity."

The trend of resorting to stereotypes, omissions of historical periods and falsehoods, says the study, found fillip during the dictatorship of Gen Zia-ul-Haq. In 1977,
Gen Zia called a national education conference, the goals of which were "to redefine the aims of education... and bring education in line with Pakistani faith and ideology."

Under the new policy, Islamiat was made compulsory up to BA, as was the teaching of Arabic to students of all religions. Madarsa certificates were equivalent to university degrees. The measures literally thrust a narrow version of Islam down the throat of Pakistan's minorities. Islamisation was turned into an article of faith, as this line from a curriculum document shows: "The Ideology of Pakistan be presented as an accepted reality, and be never subjected to discussion or dispute."

One of the papers in the document argues that the hate material against Hindus was, in part, a result of promotion of the 'Ideology of Pakistan'. Interestingly, says the paper's author A H Nayyar, despite the bloody partition, school textbooks during Pakistan's first 25 years were relatively free of the current pathological hatred. For instance, "history books contained chapters on not only the Harappan civilisation, but also the mythologies of Ramayana and Mahabharata. The great kingdoms of the Mauryas and Guptas were extensively covered, often with admiration. One still found in school textbooks chapters on M K Gandhi, using words of respect for him and admiring his qualities. Some books mentioned that the most prominent religious leaders were all bitterly opposed to the creation of Pakistan."


Then came the 1970s and 'Indo-Pakistan History and Geography' was replaced with 'Pakistan Studies' and Pakistan defined as an Islamic state. The history of Pakistan became equivalent to the history of Muslims in the subcontinent. So much so that "the Quaid-i-Azam was turned into a pious, practicing Muslim."

In contrast, books like this 1956 edition of Tareek-e-Pakistan-o-Hind, were quite objective even with regard to Mohd bin Qasim, who brought Islam into the subcontinent.

The book says: "(Qasim) laid the foundation for Muslim rule in India. But the first brick of the foundation were defective... Had Qasim and the conquerors relied less on the sword to increase their numerical strength... we would have been spared the events because of which we are presently facing tribulations."

Compare that with this unprecedented piece of 'historical' narration from a current textbook of Pakistan Studies: "Pakistan came to be established for the first time when the Arabs under Mohd bin Qasim occupied Sindh and Multan in the early years of the eighth century and established Muslim rule in this part of the South- Asian subcontinent. Pakistan under the Arabs comprised the lower Indus Valley."

The textbook then proceeds to trace the development of 'Pakistan' during the Ghaznavids, Khiljis and the Mughals: "After the death of Aurangzeb in 1707, the process of the disintegration of Mughal rule set in, and weakened the Pakistan Spirit."

Analysing the use of history as an official imagining tool to conjure Pakistan, Ayesha Jalal is quoted thus: "When petty officials carry the brief of writing history as victory, the imaginings of power can discard the stray 'truths' of pure inspiration and pretend to monopolise the enterprise of creativity. A sort of amnesia descends."

The study, that looked into problems associated with four key areas taught to Classes I to XII - Social/Pakistan Studies, Urdu, English and Civics - also makes recommendations to undo the damage and bring education in line with the democratic aspirations and pluralistic reality of Pakistan.

But, is anyone listening? Textbook case of falsehoods

*Hindus very cunningly succeeded in making the British believe that the Muslims were solely responsible for the (1857) rebellion- Social Studies, Class VIII

*In order to appease Hindus and Congress, the British announced political reforms. Muslims were not eligible to vote. Hindu voters never voted for a Muslim- Social Studies, Class VIII

*Hindus lived in small, dark houses- Social Studies, Class VI

*There ought to come out (in essays) an angle of propagation of Islam and the ideology of Pakistan- Class Iv, V Urdu curricula

*While Muslims provided all types of help to those wishing to leave Pakistan, the people of India committed cruelties against the Muslims. They were murdered and looted- Civics of Pakistan, Intermediate classes


Creating a Pakistan of distortions
 
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The ease with which so many people in Pakistan start bashing "Hindu" India is a proof that the people who designed the curriculum did not totally fail in their attempts.

Oh please. Indian textbooks write extensively about the evils of the caste system and Sati and all that, but they do it without drilling home the point that "hindus and brahmins inherently cunning and immoral".

Is the below mentioned in Indian text books ?

Is the false claims of Akunt Baharat stories mentioned in the stoy books of Indian syllabus !

How Brahmins killed Buddhism in India? Super Hindus around the globe

I will insist that in fact contrary to the claims Pakistan Studies has been quite neutral vis-a-vis the partition and no where does malign the characters of Ghandhiji nor Nehru, although in factual fact both were involved in one scandal to another.

However, it is the actions of India & Hindu's (Kashmir, Siachen, Gujrat, Parliament bombing claims, Baglihar, closure of water, movement of troops on our border, giving ultimatems, non-conversion laws, bombing Samjhota express, etc...) which makes makes the young Pakistani filled with hatred towards India.

The best example is that Pakistan welcomes Indian visitors but in India Pakistani visitors are being picked up for one reason or another as terrorists and being handed over in body bags ! Why are Pakistani jail officials not returning Indians in body bags ? Don't tell me that hatres is on state level this type of actions come from common person who has hatred filled against other nationals !
 
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Creating a Pakistan of distortions

Author: Amit Bhattacharya/ New Delhi
Publication: The Pioneer
Date: July 13, 2003

*Hindus worship in temples which are narrow and dark places, where they worship idols. Only one person can enter the temple at a time. In mosques, on the other hand, all Muslims can say their prayers together.

*The religion of the Hindus did not teach them good things - Hindus did not respect women.

*Hindus, who have been opportunists, co-operated with the English


These aren't the views of a blinkered mullah in an obscure madarsa. They are passages from Pakistan Government-approved social studies textbooks being taught to students of Class IV to VI in the Pak province of Punjab.
distortions[/url]

And the source of your posting is an Indian author.

Atleast i have not studied in Pakistan Studies book what the Indians are claiming.

You need to look into text books which are being taught in India and you will see how much hate is being taught against Muslims.

No Indian board will have courage to allow Pakistanis to carry out propaganda on such a scale which you Indians are doing on Pakistani boards.

This alone proves how much tolerant we are.
 
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The ease with which so many people in Pakistan start bashing "Hindu" India is a proof that the people who designed the curriculum did not totally fail in their attempts.

Oh please. Indian textbooks write extensively about the evils of the caste system and Sati and all that, but they do it without drilling home the point that "hindus and brahmins inherently cunning and immoral".

Is the below mentioned in Indian text books ?

Is the false claims of Akunt Baharat stories mentioned in the stoy books of Indian syllabus !

How Brahmins killed Buddhism in India? Super Hindus around the globe

I will insist that in fact contrary to the claims Pakistan Studies has been quite neutral vis-a-vis the partition and no where does malign the characters of Ghandhiji nor Nehru, although in factual fact both were involved in one scandal to another.

However, it is the actions of India & Hindu's (Kashmir, Siachen, Gujrat, Parliament bombing claims, Baglihar, closure of water, movement of troops on our border, giving ultimatems, non-conversion laws, bombing Samjhota express, etc...) which makes makes the young Pakistani filled with hatred towards India.

The best example is that Pakistan welcomes Indian visitors but in India Pakistani visitors are being picked up for one reason or another as terrorists and being handed over in body bags ! Why are Pakistani jail officials not returning Indians in body bags ? Don't tell me that hatres is on state level this type of actions come from common person who has hatred filled against other nationals !

Your post exemplifies the confusions that a Pakistani student would typically have. The difficulty (or is it impossibility) to separate facts from fiction.

Can you see what is fact in your post and what is fiction, just the stories that opinionated your mind so much, it renders it incapable of thinking logically and forming any conclusions.

You are mixed up unrelated issues and even untruths and the post is totally incoherent to properly respond to.

And would you like to consider what happened to the existing religions in the regions of Afghanistan and Pakistan after the coming of Islam?

Was what we recently saw in Bamyan and Swat a small trailer of a great long tragic movie that played out in this region? A great movie filled with violence, bigotry, hatred and superiority complex! One where the characters were not satisfied till they did not root out the other's cutures and religions so completely that not a trace remained!
 
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