Do I just represent the ‘honor’ of the men in my family?

[I.R.A]

@Manama you first need to understand "You are yourself responsible for rewards and consequences of your actions and no one else"

Once you have understood this then read again my comment and see I have used word advice and not ordered .... different things ...... and now if you understand the difference between Advice and order consider the following scenario.

Car theft in Pakistan is a rampant crime, (I have personally suffered from it), every other citizen that owns a car or a motor bike knows that there is always high a risk that when he parks his vehicle somewhere .... on his return he may never find it. Now an idiot would call any sane advice (to adopt measures to safeguard against theft), pathetic and disgusting but a person who values that advice would know why its beneficial for him. Idiot obviously is playing risky and would face the consequences soon, may be then he will realise the advice wasn't to oppress him or make him look like a fool but to safeguard him ............. in case of intelligent person the risk of theft is always there but to a very low level and the thief may drop the idea altogether because of the effort involved.

covering has to do with protecting ones own chastity but not from some horny man down the streets, but from satan.

I have yet to hear any incident where Satan raped a woman.

 

[Manama]

@Manama you first need to understand "You are yourself responsible for rewards and consequences of your actions and no one else"

Once you have understood this then read again my comment and see I have used word advice and not ordered .... different things ...... and now if you understand the difference between Advice and order consider the following scenario.

Car theft in Pakistan is a rampant crime, (I have personally suffered from it), every other citizen that owns a car or a motor bike knows that there is always high a risk that when he parks his vehicle somewhere .... on his return he may never find it. Now an idiot would call any sane advice (to adopt measures to safeguard against theft), pathetic and disgusting but a person who values that advice would know why its beneficial for him. Idiot obviously is playing risky and would face the consequences soon, may be then he will realise the advice wasn't to oppress him or make him look like a fool but to safeguard him ............. in case of intelligent person the risk of theft is always there but to a very low level and the thief may drop the idea altogether because of the effort involved.



I have yet to hear any incident where Satan raped a woman.

nah i don't fully agree with that. Its like saying if you get murdered its your own fault.

lmao i don't mean satan raping a woman. I mean convincing them to do wrong. Just like how they say if you pray 5 times a day or you are in state of wudu, there is always this impression that God is there and watching you and it is he you serve. Similarly with Hijab.

 

[Sky lord]

Bro this false flagger has no shame the his posts are 50% Tarik Fatu 50% zee news crap

Do you have proof?

Other than your opinion that NO Pakistani can think as she does?

Please remember you are a country of 300 million people. Not everyone will see things your way. There are Pakistanis who have very divergent opinions especially those brought up outside pakistan.

Why don't you just ask a mod friend to check her IP ? If ha/she is a false flagger ban her. If not then allow her to express her views different as they are to yours . She is entitled to them.

Just accusing her of false flagging with no actual evidence is a waste of time and disrespectful if indeed she is who she says she is.

Debate ideas NOT the person.

 

[Zibago]

Do you have proof?

Other than your opinion that NO Pakistani can think as she does?

Please remember you are a country of 300 million people. Not everyone will see things your way. There are Pakistanis who have very divergent opinions especially those brought up outside pakistan.

Why don't you just ask a mod friend to check her IP ? If ha/she is a false flagger ban her. If not then allow her to express her views different as they are to yours . She is entitled to them.

Just accusing her of false flagging with no actual evidence is a waste of time and disrespectful if indeed she is who she says she is.

Debate ideas NOT the person.

I can easily refute every single point of his but i dont think we should encourage false flaggers

 

[I.R.A]

nah i don't fully agree with that. Its like saying if you get murdered its your own fault.

lmao i don't mean satan raping a woman. I mean convincing them to do wrong. Just like how they say if you pray 5 times a day or you are in state of wudu, there is always this impression that God is there and watching you and it is he you serve. Similarly with Hijab.

I am disappointed ....... it appears I am talking to a Mullah here?

 

[Hollow Field]

Short answer: yes
Long answer: yes

 

[adil_minhas]

Non lower than Adil Minhas, the Potohari Rajput from Bihar heheheheheheeeeeeeee

Please get off my back or I shall report you.

I have yet to see you make one sensible post on this forum except for salivating over others daughters and sisters. Especially sister Muslimahs.

At least Zibago has class and writes with his brain when not in oggle/Jap mode.

Your levels of obsession worry me.

@Divergent1 @Manama

 

[Manama]

I am disappointed ....... it appears I am talking to a Mullah here?

How is this talking to a mullah?
Clothes aren't consent no matter which area you live in, nor does covering yourself protects you from assault. Its just a poor way to justify a crime.
Someone can be roaming naked and nobody has the right to touch him or her. Weird that in Pakistan people can say its your own fault while a country as strict as KSA doesn't do that.
As far as hijab is concerned, where Allah mentioned it in the Quran, he didn't say "so men can't hurt you" he said "Fear Allah". That says enough. Nothing to be disappointed about.

You are the one saying a woman should be covered if she wants to be safe, if she doesn't whatever happens is her fault. Now thats something disappointing to hear.

 

[I.R.A]

How is this talking to a mullah?

Because when you referred to scriptures in your posts I thought you would have a better understanding of the matters compared to traditional, orthodox understanding based on hear say, I thought your views would be based on logical thinking and understanding of rational behind advice / instruction / order in Quran.

Someone can be roaming naked and nobody has the right to touch him or her. Weird that in Pakistan people can say its your own fault while a country as strict as KSA doesn't do that.

Only naked people that I have seen roaming on streets of Pakistan are the ones who are mentally ill. So don't know why would a perfectly fine sane person would take off his clothes and go naked and then expect all rest of people to shut their eyes?

As far as hijab is concerned, where Allah mentioned it in the Quran, he didn't say "so men can't hurt you" he said "Fear Allah". That says enough. Nothing to be disappointed about.

You are a Mullah ......... Quran hasn't used Hijab word for veil/ cloaks or outer garments of women. Where ever word Hijab is mentioned in Quran it is not in context of what we normally understand by Hijab. refer 33:59, 24:31, 7:26

The word 'hijab' appears seven times in the Quran. Five of them as 'hijab' and two times as 'hijaban', these are verses: 7:46, 33:53, 38:32, 41:5, 42:51, 17:45 & 19:17.

None of these 'hijab' words are used in the Quran in reference to what the traditional Muslims call today 'hijab', that being the head cover for Muslim woman!

You are the one saying a woman should be covered if she wants to be safe, if she doesn't whatever happens is her fault. Now thats something disappointing to hear.

Cloak is not a burqa or face veil.

However to conclude my thoughts on this topic, I believe that any woman knows quite well what is decent and what is revealing. Women do not need to be told, they know how to maintain righteousness and how not to.

 

[Manama]

Because when you referred to scriptures in your posts I thought you would have a better understanding of the matters compared to traditional, orthodox understanding based on hear say, I thought your views would be based on logical thinking and understanding of rational behind advice / instruction / order in Quran.



Only naked people that I have seen roaming on streets of Pakistan are the ones who are mentally ill. So don't know why would a perfectly fine sane person would take off his clothes and go naked and then expect all rest of people to shut their eyes?



You are a Mullah ......... Quran hasn't used Hijab word for veil/ cloaks or outer garments of women. Where ever word Hijab is mentioned in Quran it is not in context of what we normally understand by Hijab. refer 33:59, 24:31, 7:26

The word 'hijab' appears seven times in the Quran. Five of them as 'hijab' and two times as 'hijaban', these are verses: 7:46, 33:53, 38:32, 41:5, 42:51, 17:45 & 19:17.

None of these 'hijab' words are used in the Quran in reference to what the traditional Muslims call today 'hijab', that being the head cover for Muslim woman!



Cloak is not a burqa or face veil.

However to conclude my thoughts on this topic, I believe that any woman knows quite well what is decent and what is revealing. Women do not need to be told, they know how to maintain righteousness and how not to.

I believe my beliefs are pretty logical. I just don't believe in religion with eyes closed, I criticize my religion and i find answers to those questions within my religion. People tend to mix up culture and words of some Local mullah to the words of Prophet. I don't like that.

I'm not talking about Pakistan or any place. I'm giving an example. EVEN if someone is naked none has the right to touch without consent. If someone is not going to fulfill his part of lowering the gaze, thats upto him. But when you touch you go to jail, atleast in most countries.

I know about the hijab part, hijab means partition, when it comes to covering Quran uses the word "khimar". Which is a type of covering which arabic women used to wear, then it says cover your bosoms so yea it becomes what we today call hijab. That aside again, i do not believe that covering protects you from sexual assault BECAUSE if God said it does, no one in the entire universe could touch a woman when she is covered, that is how strong God's reasoning is. But unfortunately women do get r-aped even if covered so yea.
Wearing a cloak in public for that? Comeon thats stupid.

Its not about being decent, few people find wearing pants for women as immoral, other see no wrong with it. You can't define decency of your own terms. What if someone is not a muslim? they don't have to wear what we do. They also don't have to "dress up" fully covered because of us muslims. There is no law against that either which they have to follow.
Lets just say someone had bad parents and being raised by them ruined the said person. Now this person couldnt give two shts about their clothes, that doesn't mean others have a right to touch them or assault them.
Coming to the topic of discussion, unfortunately its true in various areas of the country and even if you aren't in that area, people have that mentality. And the biggest evidence of it is infact honor killing. Its not the norm probably but that it still happens in our country is sad and needs to be put to an end.

 

[I.R.A]

I believe my beliefs are pretty logical. I just don't believe in religion with eyes closed, I criticize my religion and i find answers to those questions within my religion. People tend to mix up culture and words of some Local mullah to the words of Prophet. I don't like that.

I'm not talking about Pakistan or any place. I'm giving an example. EVEN if someone is naked none has the right to touch without consent. If someone is not going to fulfill his part of lowering the gaze, thats upto him. But when you touch you go to jail, atleast in most countries.

I know about the hijab part, hijab means partition, when it comes to covering Quran uses the word "khimar". Which is a type of covering which arabic women used to wear, then it says cover your bosoms so yea it becomes what we today call hijab. That aside again, i do not believe that covering protects you from sexual assault BECAUSE if God said it does, no one in the entire universe could touch a woman when she is covered, that is how strong God's reasoning is. But unfortunately women do get r-aped even if covered so yea.
Wearing a cloak in public for that? Comeon thats stupid.

Its not about being decent, few people find wearing pants for women as immoral, other see no wrong with it. You can't define decency of your own terms. What if someone is not a muslim? they don't have to wear what we do. They also don't have to "dress up" fully covered because of us muslims. There is no law against that either which they have to follow.
Lets just say someone had bad parents and being raised by them ruined the said person. Now this person couldnt give two shts about their clothes, that doesn't mean others have a right to touch them or assault them.
Coming to the topic of discussion, unfortunately its true in various areas of the country and even if you aren't in that area, people have that mentality. And the biggest evidence of it is infact honor killing. Its not the norm probably but that it still happens in our country is sad and needs to be put to an end.

I don't agree that any woman doesn't know what's decent and what's not. I don't want to go into details but this much I know ......... if suppose I being a male am staring at any woman's bosom or rear ...... I don't believe she won't know, it's in her sixth sense she will feel uncomfortable. So yes any women has a pretty good idea of what's decent and what isn't.

 

[adil_minhas]

I don't agree that any woman doesn't know what's decent and what's not. I don't want to go into details but this much I know ......... if suppose I being a male am staring at any woman's bosom or rear ...... I don't believe she won't know, it's in her sixth sense she will feel uncomfortable. So yes any women has a pretty good idea of what's decent and what.

They have an inbuilt radar.

Yes I agree with you on this.

Even when they are walking away.

 

[I.R.A]

They have an inbuilt radar.

Yes I agree with you on this.

Even when they are walking away.

We agree on lot of things ............ so what's up......

 

[adil_minhas]

We agree on lot of things ............ so what's up......

Personally I have some advice for guys who want to get ahead with the ladies.

Resist the urge to check them out. Furtive looks are a massive ewww turnoff for them.

Eye contact is where the whole game is.

After that you can get pretty naughty. And actually get away with a lot you'd get a slap for moments ago.

Sorry for interrupting the intellectual conversation you guys were having.

 

[I.R.A]

Sorry for interrupting the intellectual conversation you guys were having.

Oh thank you ...... why not it was so interesting to tell women that we men know about them . Any other pearls of wisdom ada sain?