Disproving some genocide claims

[Venkat]

If you conduct a pop quiz in india, i bet 90% of Indians cant even guess the number of bengalies claimed killed (they dont even know which year the war happened). But if you do it in Dacca 90%of the bangladeshis will tell you its 3 million. So all reeducation efforts should be aimed at Bangladesh, not India.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Since most of the people I have come across who bring up the 3 million figure are Indians, I think discourse over the correct number of casualties needs to be conducted whenever the opportunity arises. Any Bangladeshis, and there are a few on this forum, can always pipe in to argue their version.

 

[ejaz007]

What I have been able to search from the net the figure is between 30000 endorsed as official figures (I have not been able to get official Pakistani figures) to around 300000 (Rummel's "death by government") to 3 million (though gendercide website does not say the figure was 3 million they do say the figure was almost certainly into seven figures).
I personally believe (though I cannot at the moment produce any evidence in support of this argument) that every one including mukhti bahini just shifted their own genocide in army’s account. One needs to look at every ones role and then try to find out the figure. Killing 3 million people out of a population of around 65 million is not as easy as is portrayed by some.

 

[Venkat]

Since most of the people I have come across who bring up the 3 million figure are Indians, I think discourse over the correct number of casualties needs to be conducted whenever the opportunity arises. Any Bangladeshis, and there are a few on this forum, can always pipe in to argue their version.

Yes I would like to hear from the Bangladeshis as well what the actual figure is. (Not the figure that they think it is , but the figure that actually is)

 

[blain2]

3000,000 dead?

I would have to scan something by a BD writer here to put some perspective on what it would have taken troops from the Pakistan Army (which at the height of the 1971 war had three Divs 9, 14 and 16 deployed in EP) to kill 3 million people.

Its an insane number per soldier and all of the troops combined would have gone nuts simply due to the guilt for having killed so many people... Since the airforce was not used in any mass bombing campaigns against the populace, factually speaking, the 3 million number is a hideous manipulation of the truth and an impossibility.

30,000 - 40,000 dead including EPs, Biharis and Pakistani troops included is an unfortunately realistic number.

I do want to add that what PA or Pakistani government did to the East Pakistanis (now Bangladeshis) was outright wrong. Better sense should have prevailed on both sides but then again hindsight is always 20x20.

 

[azmax007]

Has this guy been checked for being authentic about being from Bangladesh? Checking his IP will be a good start.

The 3 million claim is not Indian claim but was made by Mujib IIRC. He is the father of the Bangla nation, no?

Do Bangladeshis trust him? What is the figuure in Bangladeshi textbooks/history?

Oh please, you can check my IP and it'll show that I'm writing from USA but Bangladesh is where I'm from.

Me and my family are against Mujibur Rahman. Yes he freed Bangladesh but at the same time he was un-Islamic, he took away "Muslim" from the Muslim Awami League, he established himself as president for life, he practiced nepotism, he practiced the same barbaric acts of the Pakistani soldiers as gang activities, he was responsible of killings after 1971, and he banned all political parties because he didn't want to give up power. He turned the good path after 1973 when he turned back to the Islamic way because his previous way of government was bullshit. He gave up "Joy Bangla" to "Khud Hafez".

The real father of the nation is General Ziur Rahman, he was in the front lines in 1971, he was in charge of the army, he started healing the relationship with Pakistan based in Islamic brotherhood and started SAARC. Mujibur Rahman just talked but he couldn't do **** that's why his own military killed him.

 

[Vinod2070]

Oh please, you can check my IP and it'll show that I'm writing from USA but Bangladesh is where I'm from.

Me and my family are against Mujibur Rahman. Yes he freed Bangladesh but at the same time he was un-Islamic, he took away "Muslim" from the Muslim Awami League, he established himself as president for life, he practiced nepotism, he practiced the same barbaric acts of the Pakistani soldiers as gang activities, he was responsible of killings after 1971, and he banned all political parties because he didn't want to give up power. He turned the good path after 1973 when he turned back to the Islamic way because his previous way of government was bullshit. He gave up "Joy Bangla" to "Khud Hafez".

The real father of the nation is General Ziur Rahman, he was in the front lines in 1971, he was in charge of the army, he started healing the relationship with Pakistan based in Islamic brotherhood and started SAARC. Mujibur Rahman just talked but he couldn't do **** that's why his own military killed him.

Well, if you say so. I am still finding it hard to believe.

Anyway, many people in India find Bangladesh to be an utterly ungrateful country and its people the most ungareful ever (may be comparable to the French). Indian soldiers gave their blood to save you from the genocide. We took more than 10 million of your refugees before the war, fed them and sheltered them. Listen to the speech of your ambassador to Delhi of the time, it was a really moving speech in which he said that Bangladesh will be eternally thankful to India and he called Indira Gandhi the world's greatest leader.

And see how Bangladesh is sheltering all kinds of terrorists and separatists now and collaborating with anti-India terrorist forces! It is now believed to have one of the largest terrorist network in South Asia. All the recent terror attacks in Hyderabad have Bangladeshi footprint.

Even now there are 20-50 million Bangladeshis who are illegaly in India. If this anti-India attitude continues, they may be in trouble some day.

Its a real shame how ungrateful some people can be!

 

[never]

vinod are you three years old.
ndia under took "helping" the bengladeshis to destroy pakistan, not because of alturism. there was no mass genocide. this was propegated by the indians and all genefral anti muslim elements in the world.
thankfully in reality the result of pakistans civil war was not at all favourable to mummy india.

 

[sparten]

I wish we had killed three million people! Would have put an end to the insurgency for sure. Of course we would have needed a few nukes.

God how can anybody believe such an inane figure.

 

[salman nedian]

vinod are you three years old.
ndia under took "helping" the bengladeshis to destroy pakistan, not because of alturism. there was no mass genocide. this was propegated by the indians and all genefral anti muslim elements in the world.
thankfully in reality the result of pakistans civil war was not at all favourable to mummy india.

What can u expect from a Democracy which supports occupiers and Land grabbers like Israel?

 

[blain2]

I will try to post something about this 3 million lie based on a book written by a Bangladeshi author. To anyone with a bit of logic, the claim about 3 million would sound illogical and superfluous after reading the excerpt.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

vinod are you three years old.
ndia under took "helping" the bengladeshis to destroy pakistan, not because of alturism. there was no mass genocide. this was propegated by the indians and all genefral anti muslim elements in the world.
thankfully in reality the result of pakistans civil war was not at all favourable to mummy india.

India did not undertake to destroy Pakistan as such.

It was a Pakistan given opportunity that they seized wherein the Eastern front was degraded to a lower threat level.

Technically, it is very favourable to India.

As fas as Bangladesh being grateful and all that, I have a different view on that. There is nothing like "being grateful" and things like that in geopolitics. Its merely self interest.

 

[Vinod2070]

vinod are you three years old.
ndia under took "helping" the bengladeshis to destroy pakistan, not because of alturism. there was no mass genocide. this was propegated by the indians and all genefral anti muslim elements in the world.
thankfully in reality the result of pakistans civil war was not at all favourable to mummy india.

I wish I could go back to that age!

The same can be said about Pakistan in reference to Afghan refugees. Its a matter of perception.

I believe we helped Bangladeshis when there was no one else to help them avert a genocide. USA was under a callous administration trying to play cold war games and not paying heed to the reports of it's own Ambassador crying about the situation there.

Why would more than 10 millions of them flee to India as refugees if there was no problem there?

Anyway there are obviously different perceptions about the genocide. I have read international books containing reference to it. I have no intention of digging out links or references to it.

The figure of 3 million is not an Indian figure but given by Mujib who is considered the father of Bangladesh. So you need to convince Bangladesh and the world that the genocide didn't take place.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Vinod,

"The World" does not believe a "genocide" took place. There is no "world authority for verifying genocides" that has confirmed this claim. What you have are various historians with differing points of views, some supporting the "genocide" claim, and others rejecting it, including many Bangladeshi/Bengali historians. Where you are correct is that discourse needs to continue, and flaws in the "3 million" allegation need to continue to be pointed out by those who disagree with the "genocide" claim.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Salim,

"Self-interest" - my reasons for arguing why some Indians need to get over the whole "Kashmir insurgency and Kargil" issue (and Pakistanis need to let the past go as well). Both countries have acted to take advantage of "given opportunities". There is very little room for "higher moral ground" to be taken by either side, and efforts to do so only vitiate the atmosphere and prevent rapprochement.

Learn from our history - yes. Turn it into an obstacle for better relationships with adversaries, no.