Discussion: Is Pakistan's economy failing because it is not a secular nation?

[zn426]

Pakistan's economy is failing for the reason that everyone is missing-the contradiction. Pakistan wishes to present itself as a chaste, moral society, where people pay their bills on time, everyone is accorded their rights, minority or otherwise, and Islam is a successful religion that has led to the growth of the nation.
In reality, Pakistan is a morally dead society, where everyone is in it to win at the expense of all others, rights are on paper only, and the only thing that actually matters is the size of your pocket book. If Islam was a successful religion, the character change that would be evident in the nation would raise Pakistan to new heights within a few years.
This contradiction in public presentation and private practice is destroying Pakistan. There is no repentance, there is no piety, and there is no character change. Thus, God is punishing Pakistan for its hypocrisy in the hope that Pakistanis will repent. I pray for Pakistan that it will repent to Jesus and become followers of Christ so that you may have both spiritual and worldly success, but still waiting on you all.

 

[VCheng]

I pray for Pakistan that it will repent to Jesus and become followers of Christ so that you may have both spiritual and worldly success, but still waiting on you all.

Hold on Sir. Are you implying that following Christ is all it would take to develop Pakistan into a worldly success?

 

[nahtanbob]

Please no arguments or insults. We just want to hear people's opinions.

@Rusty2 Claims that Pakistan's economy is failing due to it not being a secular nation, and the west's economy is flourishing due to that same secularism.
(Please correct me Rusty if that's not what you claim)

I disagree and I think the problems are more due to the incompetent governance and bad economic policies.

Or maybe he's right and we had the most competent leadership, the most effective economic policies, employment readily available, tons of natural resources like oils, minerals and gas.

Ishaq Dar is/was a total magician, our great national leaders like Nawaz Sharif, Shahbaz Sharif, and Zardari were perfect governors but secularism was missing hence today it is failing.

@PakFactor @That Guy @Al_Muhannad @epebble @ziaulislam @SaadH @Erieye @Mirzali Khan @_NOBODY_ @313ghazi @MastanKhan @SQ8 @Great Janjua @FuturePAF

seriously are you willing to enforce Islam as the law of the land ? I thought the Taliban was bad

 

[Abdul Rehman Majeed]

seriously are you willing to enforce Islam as the law of the land ? I thought the Taliban was bad

All Muslim nations implement and follow Islamic law.

What is the issue?

 

[Rusty2]

Rules and regulations can only be passed by the government.

Also currently society is filled with extremism so the initial stand will have to be taken by the government - after the deradicalisation is done and people are educated more efficiently there won't be a need for the government's involvement.

They'll just ensure rules are being followed and the people continue as is

Not true. Millions of non government institutions have rules and regulations. For example Universities, country clubs, etc.
You can have a non government institution that makes ruling on religious mater and the government does not need to get involved.
Remember, religion is voluntary. You can't force people into heaven. They need to voluntarily believe or not. The government, on the other hand, is not voluntary. The government only has one tool and that is force. Once you get government involved in religion, you now have a non voluntary institution.

 

[Menace2Society]

All Muslim nations implement and follow Islamic law.

What is the issue?

Nothing wrong with Islam or Muslims but Pakistan have no shortage of jahils like this

So we must separate faith from the state to save our future generations from this retarded way of life which is one way ticket to poverty and 3rd world grade cities.

Malaysia can handle it well, most of the middle east can handle it well, its because they are mature socities. Pakistan is full of mental illness and psychopaths therefore its society requires balance.

Europe in the dark ages was in a similar situation, full of Christian extremism and they suffered because of it.

 

[VCheng]

All Muslim nations implement and follow Islamic law.

What is the issue?

Please demonstrate how Pakistan fits that claim above, relevant to the topic of this thread. Thank you.

 

[Rusty2]

Take the most secular county in the world and rule it for 70 years with our feudal Lords and thier chowkidar friends and see how successful it is.



Pakistani is not a theocracy.

There are a million ways to fail and only a few ways to succeed.
One way to fail is to be a theocracy.

north korea is successful because its secular nation
so is Israel

There are a million ways to fail and only a few ways to succeed.
North Korea and Isreal are actually much more developed than Pakistan.

if you really understood Islamic concepts.. you would realise this such a retarded question..


lets put it another way..

give me an example of robust Islamic principles being applied?


lets see

Truth - 100% fail

Honesty - 100% fail

Merit - 100% fail

Good manners - 2000% fail

etc

So you want to base our society on a system you admit we are not (and cannot achieve).
it's like saying we should grow tropical plants that need lots of water in the desert and if we fail, its the fault of the tropical plants.

 

[Menace2Society]

North Korea and Isreal are actually much more developed than Pakistan.

North Korea is better than Pakistan you're right. This is getting ridiculous

North Korea

Pakistan

 

[Rusty2]

Again, sir. That's correlation. Fruits of colonialism and imperialism.

Muslims empires were prosperous when they were conquering and looting. All that money enabled the relative improvement in public welfare compared to the christian empires, scientific research because the kings and sultans were patrons of scholars when they had money.

Same with the christians, when the Roman empire was kicking a*s all over the known world, except China.

It's old wisdom Jis ki laathi us ke bhains , geopolitics and all.
Present day notion of secularism just came around a few centuries ago. That too, ironically, because of the advances in philosophical thought brought about by the fact that more and more people didn't have to toil for basic sustenance due to abundance of money and could indulge in these activities.

Yes it is correlation, but there is evidence behind it.
Your second paragraph actually gets really really close. We gave up the thirst for knowledge while the Europeans took it up. We created conservative Islam that more or less says the only knowledge you need is in the Quran and Sunnah. Which never existed during the golden age of Islam. Meanwhile the Europeans said "okay we can't objectively figure out what do with religion on a state level, so lets just leave it alone and let people decide"

 

[epebble]

Pakistan's economy is failing for the reason that everyone is missing-the contradiction. Pakistan wishes to present itself as a chaste, moral society, where people pay their bills on time, everyone is accorded their rights, minority or otherwise, and Islam is a successful religion that has led to the growth of the nation.
In reality, Pakistan is a morally dead society, where everyone is in it to win at the expense of all others, rights are on paper only, and the only thing that actually matters is the size of your pocket book. If Islam was a successful religion, the character change that would be evident in the nation would raise Pakistan to new heights within a few years.
This contradiction in public presentation and private practice is destroying Pakistan. There is no repentance, there is no piety, and there is no character change. Thus, God is punishing Pakistan for its hypocrisy in the hope that Pakistanis will repent. I pray for Pakistan that it will repent to Jesus and become followers of Christ so that you may have both spiritual and worldly success, but still waiting on you all.

Hmm, Jesus may give spiritual success but his efficacy in worldly success is mixed. Exhibit No. 1: Philippines. Filipinos are among the most devout Christians that I have come across. But the worldly success of Philippines has been arguably below par.

 

[AlKardai]

Jinnah also ate pork. Just saying.

shut up, lying Indian https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/was-jinnah-really-an-alcohol-drinker-and-pork-eater.484865/

Do some research, and stop weaponising slander

 

[Rusty2]

All Muslim nations implement and follow Islamic law.

What is the issue?

The issue is that it kills the economy as I have presented earlier.

 

[Menace2Society]

Can you imagine if Pakistan was a 1st world developed secular nation which Jinnah imagined. Clean, developed, prosperous, advanced. We would have absolutely mogged the street shi*ters next door. The trade and goodwill would have come flooding in from everywhere. Pakistan would have been the jewel of South Asia.

 

[Rusty2]

Nothing wrong with Islam or Muslims but Pakistan have no shortage of jahils like this

So we must separate faith from the state to save our future generations from this retarded way of life which is one way ticket to poverty and 3rd world grade cities.

Malaysia can handle it well, most of the middle east can handle it well, its because they are mature socities. Pakistan is full of mental illness and psychopaths therefore its society requires balance.

Europe in the dark ages was in a similar situation, full of Christian extremism and they suffered because of it.

Do you know how Malaysia and the gulf societies handle these people?
THEY DO NOT TOLERATE THEM!
Pakistan... oh boy.... if some posters had their way, we would be living in a 7th century mud hut.

Can you imagine if Pakistan was a 1st world developed secular nation which Jinnah imagined. Clean, developed, prosperous, advanced. We would have absolutely mogged the street shi*ters next door. The trade and goodwill would have come flooding in from everywhere. Pakistan would have been the jewel of South Asia.

Look at every developed non oil state, look at what they are obsessed with.... I will give you a hint, it's not religion.