Discussion: Is Pakistan's economy failing because it is not a secular nation?

[TheSolution]

Please no arguments or insults. We just want to hear people's opinions.

@Rusty2 Claims that Pakistan's economy is failing due to it not being a secular nation, and the west's economy is flourishing due to that same secularism.
(Please correct me Rusty if that's not what you claim)

I disagree and I think the problems are more due to the incompetent governance and bad economic policies.

Or maybe he's right and we had the most competent leadership, the most effective economic policies, employment readily available, tons of natural resources like oils, minerals and gas.

Ishaq Dar is/was a total magician, our great national leaders like Nawaz Sharif, Shahbaz Sharif, and Zardari were perfect governors but secularism was missing hence today it is failing.

@PakFactor @That Guy @Al_Muhannad @epebble @ziaulislam @SaadH @Erieye @Mirzali Khan @_NOBODY_ @313ghazi @MastanKhan @SQ8 @Great Janjua @FuturePAF

 

[karachidude86]

what a stupid question to ask, plenty of secular countries are poor.

As far as opinions go most of the english speaking wannabe people on these forums are secular pricks from higher echelons of society with little or no understanding of Islam nor the destruction secularism has brought in the last 2 centuries.

 

[TheSolution]

what a stupid question to ask, plenty of secular countries are poor.

It is not my opinion, it actually belongs to @Rusty2

I also disagreed but it was cluttering another thread so I opened this to hear other people's views.

But my opinion is there, I think it's more to do with governance and bad economic policies.

 

[Rusty2]

what a stupid question to ask, plenty of secular countries are poor.

As far as opinions go most of the english speaking wannabe people on these forums are secular pricks with little or no understanding of Islam nor the destruction secularism has brought in the last 2 centuries.

True.
How many theocracies, outside of oil states, are rich?

Okay, so I am actually heading out (got kick bocking practice
Will be back in 2 hours and I will make my case. Please hold off until them.
Thank You

 

[karachidude86]

True.
How many theocracies, outside of oil states, are rich?

you think the west got rich because of secularism, it got rich of loot.

 

[Rusty2]

you think the west got rich because of secularism, it got rich of loot.

didn't answer my question.

 

[Menace2Society]

what a stupid question to ask, plenty of secular countries are poor.

As far as opinions go most of the english speaking wannabe people on these forums are secular pricks with little or no understanding of Islam nor the destruction secularism has brought in the last 2 centuries.

Are these countries poor?

Top 10 Most Secular Countries in the World (by percentage of non-religious citizens, Win-Gallup 2017)​

1. China — 90%
2. Sweden — 73%
3. Czech Republic — 72%
4. United Kingdom — 69%
5. Belarus — 64%
6. Azerbaijan — 64%
7. Vietnam — 63%
8. Australia — 63%
9. Norway — 62%
10. Denmark — 61%

you think the west got rich because of secularism, it got rich of loot.

You think the Islamic empire got rich because of Islam, it got rich of loot and slavery.

 

[karachidude86]

the plight of our people is we don't verse ourselves in history, the first subject ever tought at oxford was astrology by a Proffesor who went to spain to study it.

 

[TheSolution]

I'd also like to highlight religious extremism is a problem in Pakistan and @Rusty2 is not wrong about that, but I disagree the reason behind it is due to Pakistan being an Islamic Republic. And the solution to this is not secularism either but rather state regulation and control.

The reasons behind the extremism can be linked more due to the events which took place in Afghanistan which radicalised large parts of our population, both during the Soviets and after 9-11.

Pakistan has always had a moderate Islamic approach historically, and the extremism you can place on the tribal belt is due to tribal culture more than Islam itself. Hence it doesn't spread that far out.

 

[karachidude86]

Are these countries poor?

Top 10 Most Secular Countries in the World (by percentage of non-religious citizens, Win-Gallup 2017)​

1. China — 90%
2. Sweden — 73%
3. Czech Republic — 72%
4. United Kingdom — 69%
5. Belarus — 64%
6. Azerbaijan — 64%
7. Vietnam — 63%
8. Australia — 63%
9. Norway — 62%
10. Denmark — 61%

You think the Islamic empire got rich because of Islam, it got rich of loot and slavery.

you forgot to mention Philippines, brazil, nepal, india, Mexico and countless other white, brown and African nations in there.

--

For example Islam looted India by making it the richest country in the world and defending it againts the mongol hordes for a 100 year, pathetic brainwashed wannabe goras.

 

[epebble]

The word 'Secular' seems to have acquired some bad connotations on this board. It does not mean anti-religion. It just means people practice their religion privately while the State runs its business with no regard to any religion. We have a sort of secular society in U.S., not because anyone is prevented from practicing any religion, but we have a strict separation of church and state. We like it that way because it prevents dividing society into fragments based on religion or sect. It was sad to see that fine economists were prevented from helping to improve Pakistan because they belonged to disfavored sects., I think the famous physicist was ostracized for being of the wrong sect too. Obviously, this is not helping anyone. At present, as an observer outside of Pakistan, I find it curious that the government is composed of extremely unintelligent people (the PM, previous PM, finance minister etc.,). I wonder is it because the smarter people belong to disfavored sects?

 

[karachidude86]

The word 'Secular' seems to have acquired some bad connotations on this board. It does not mean anti-religion. It just means people practice their religion privately while the State runs its business with no regard to any religion. We have a sort of secular society in U.S., not because anyone is prevented from practicing any religion, but we have a strict separation of church and state. We like it that way because it prevents dividing society into fragments based on religion or sect. It was sad to see that fine economists were prevented from helping to improve Pakistan because they belonged to disfavored sects., I think the famous physicist was ostracized for being of the wrong sect too. Obviously, this is not helping anyone. At present, as an observer outside of Pakistan, I find it curious that the government is composed of extremely unintelligent people (the PM, previous PM, finance minister etc.,). I wonder is it because the smarter people belong to disfavored sects?

secular simply means separation of the church from the state.

 

[Menace2Society]

you forgot to mention Philippines, brazil, nepal, india, Mexico and countless other white, brown and African nations in there.

--

For example Islam looted India by making it the richest country in the world and defending it againts the mongol hordes for a 100 year, pathetic brainwashed wannabe goras.

These are not secular countries. Before debating learn the defenition.

The arabs looted and enslaved every non arab and imposed their culture on them. There is no difference between them and the white slaverers and their empires so spare me the good guy routine.

 

[karachidude86]

I'd also like to highlight religious extremism is a problem in Pakistan and @Rusty2 is not wrong about that, but I disagree the reason behind it is due to Pakistan being an Islamic Republic. And the solution to this is not secularism either but rather state regulation and control.

The reasons behind the extremism can be linked more due to the events which took place in Afghanistan which radicalised large parts of our population, both during the Soviets and after 9-11.

Pakistan has always had a moderate Islamic approach historically, and the extremism you can place on the tribal belt is due to tribal culture more than Islam itself. Hence it doesn't spread that far out.

brother i dont know what country and religious beliefs you belong to, but the more extreme a muslim society is the more it will prosper and peace will prevail, theres not a single principal in islam that goes against Humanity as a whole.

 

[TheSolution]

The word 'Secular' seems to have acquired some bad connotations on this board. It does not mean anti-religion. It just means people practice their religion privately while the State runs its business with no regard to any religion. We have a sort of secular society in U.S., not because anyone is prevented from practicing any religion, but we have a strict separation of church and state. We like it that way because it prevents dividing society into fragments based on religion or sect. It was sad to see that fine economists were prevented from helping to improve Pakistan because they belonged to disfavored sects., I think the famous physicist was ostracized for being of the wrong sect too. Obviously, this is not helping anyone. At present, as an observer outside of Pakistan, I find it curious that the government is composed of extremely unintelligent people (the PM, previous PM, finance minister etc.,). I wonder is it because the smarter people belong to disfavored sects?

Pakistan is already secular albeit with a touch of Islam politically but a lot of religious extremist societal pockets.

I think politically the current set-up is fine, it's societal extremism that needs to be tackled.