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Discovering Afghanistan’s 1,000-year-old Jewish life

There is a lot of areas your country can assist Afghanistan and we can also learn on how to survive as a country when surrounded by wolves.

Cybersecurity is one areas that Afghans may benefit from Israeli know-how.



Have you seen your parliament? I am talking about the new generation of Afghans who are educated, tech savy and understand how the world works, and these folks that you are refering to does not represent those that are decision makers.

Remember the wife of the Afghan president is a christian, something unheard off in surrounded countries.

I personally know of Afghan jews in Afghanistan who lived and mingled with local populous with no discrimination at all, actually they were treated far better than anyone else.



Something carried out by your proxies, the same proxies that the Afghan gov is fighting.



In case you missed my post, I pointed our strength in the past, and also concrete relationship right now and the future.

What does this tell you, being stuck in the past? On the contrary we are far advanced in understanding our the world works and thus advocating working with Israel and learning from them.

Actually Pak tried to stop them.. they didnt listen... people here think that somehow Pak signals and taliban do.. that was never the case.

Pakistan/Afghanistan are in the same boat as Saudi Arabia/Yemen and Turkey/Syria . A regional power who borders a very unstable country . Considering that Turkey and Saudi are actually bombing them for their own strategic gains , Pakistan has been lenient with Afghanistan considering our F-16's are not bombing you ;) . Funding the talis is not a declared war . BTW do you know Pakistan has been invading your bordering provinces and building check posts on your land ?;)

Pakistan exports to Afghanistan total $ 2.2 billion . That's almost twice of your total exports . We provide important products like Cement , Steel , Wheat , Rice , Medicines . I don't think I find any barriers there .

The Shawal operation extended to afghan side.. and from what i hear with Afghan permission.

Considering that your undeclared war is becoming a declared war this year ( quoting Ashraf Ghani ) we still have done reasonably well. You entire machinery is busy trying to dismantle the current setup in Afghanistan, so considering all this, the NUG still stands and functions pretty well. There are no significant trade issues with any, and as day passes we strengthen whatever trade mechanism that are in place, good case point can be the trilateral Iran, India Afghanistan agreement, you can get the list of the recent agreements from the ministry of commerce site. The only exception is Pakistan, blocking transit routes which of course is in a state of war with Afghanistan.

Again ( Ashraf Ghani has been on the record on these ) so these are not my shenanigans ;)

If Pak wanted to dismantle Afghanistan... all we have to do is send millions of afghans back and close the borders... you country will be on its knees in a week if not more.

The reality is that from livestock to cement and even currency ... Afghanistan depends on Pak... legally or illegally through smuggling.. while in this relationship... we are on the loss prone side.
 
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. BTW do you know Pakistan has been invading your bordering provinces and building check posts on your land ?;)

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You should ask how it is going for the Saudis? practically begging the Yemenis to make peace. Anyways Pakistan is neither Saudi or nor Turkey, have you wondered why the jurnails have kept their exercise covert in Afghanistan? Afghanistan it's a different ball game, actually it will be a blessing for the NUG that Pakistan attacks Afghanistan.
Anyways nations rise and fall, we invaded you for centuries, you can have fun for a couple of years, continue the same course of action and you will lose the rest of Pakistan as well, good case should be Bangladesh.

Here is a video which should educate you a bit, he is a former Pakistani diplomat and a Pakistani pakhtoon like yourself.
starts at 6:35 min.


Actually Pak tried to stop them.. they didnt listen... people here think that somehow Pak signals and taliban do.. that was never the case.



The Shawal operation extended to afghan side.. and from what i hear with Afghan permission.



If Pak wanted to dismantle Afghanistan... all we have to do is send millions of afghans back and close the borders... you country will be on its knees in a week if not more.

The reality is that from livestock to cement and even currency ... Afghanistan depends on Pak... legally or illegally through smuggling.. while in this relationship... we are on the loss prone side.

Have you been sending cakes and cookies until now? The largest migration of refugees in the world is happening right now.
 
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You should ask how it is going for the Saudis?
practically begging the Yemenis to make peace.

We arent Saudis either when it comes to military punishment...
Anyways Pakistan is neither Saudi or nor Turkey, have you wondered why the jurnails have kept their exercise covert in Afghanistan? Afghanistan it's a different ball game, actually it will be a blessing for the NUG that Pakistan attacks Afghanistan.

True had we been like Turkey PAF and PAA would have been bombing Kunar and other afghan states//

Anyways nations rise and fall, we invaded you for centuries, you can have fun for a couple of years, continue the same course of action and you will lose the rest of Pakistan as well, good case should be Bangladesh.
You invaded us? So how did you invade Pashtuns or Baluch or your own allies in Panjab? Anyways... you didnt accept and recognise Pak.. you invaded Pak several times till the 70s.. always getting beaten black and blue.. than under the communist govt your KHAD started spreading terrorism and the failed Pashtunistan.... The result? Not so good now is it?




Have you been sending cakes and cookies until now? The largest migration of refugees in the world is happening right now.

1 or 2 hundred thousand is a drop in the ocean.. can you take 3+ million of your citizens? You loose ALOT .. we GAIN.

Ironic how we have donated over 1.5 billion dollars.. sheltered millions of afghans .. your army troops even are given medical help in Pak mil and civil hospital and yet here you are threatening us ... I mean come on ... take a break and look at your country?
 
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The discovery of the Afghan Jewish documents also raises the timely question whether more treasure troves of Jewish historical items in the Middle East and Central Asia are waiting to be unearthed.
ShowImage.ashx

ONE OF the Afghan manuscripts.. (photo credit:COURTESY SARA AHARON)

Five years ago researchers were amazed to learn that hundreds of rare medieval Jewish documents from Afghanistan, dating from the 11th to 13th centuries, had been discovered. These documents pre-dated the Mongol invasion of the early 13th century and had potential to shed breathtaking new light on a time that we know very little about, precisely because the Mongols destroyed most traces of the communities they touched. Said to have been found in the caves of Bamiyan in northern central Afghanistan, an area that may sound familiar from the Taliban’s destruction of the great Buddhas of Bamiyan, the documents’ existence became known after they landed in the hands of antiquities dealers scattered across cities from Europe to Israel.

Now the most recent acquisition of 250 of these medieval Afghan texts by the National Library of Israel, made public in September 2016, promises to reveal tremendous new insights and information about Jewish life in the Middle East and Central Asia a thousand years ago. These items join the National Library’s existing collection of 29 documents, acquired in early 2013, from the same Afghan archive. Written in several languages, including Persian, Arabic, Judeo-Persian, Judeo-Arabic and Hebrew, the documents may reflect their authors’ journeys as they made their travels across the lands of the Middle East using the Silk Road.


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I had the great pleasure and opportunity of visiting the National Library and meeting its head Judaica curator, Dr. Yoel Finkelman, in September to learn about and view several of the documents. We spoke about how unique and fortunate discoveries like this are – fragments 1,000 years old, from remote areas of Afghanistan.

He explained that this medieval Jewish community, since almost certainly destroyed later by the Mongols, should therefore be considered as a separate population from the Jewish community of Afghanistan in the 19th and 20th centuries. In the modern period Afghanistan’s Jewish community numbered about five to six thousand people, with about a thousand living in the capital, Kabul, and the rest in Herat. Most emigrated in the decades after Israel’s founding to the new Jewish state or to New York. We have scant evidence, though, about the size or nature of Afghanistan’s Jewish population in the 11th to 13th centuries. If we’re very lucky, this collection may help reveal such details and unravel the puzzles about daily life at that time.

Viewing rare items from a millennium ago with one’s own eyes, from a remote part of the world extraordinarily difficult to access, is a surreal and moving experience. For starters, I had expected to see small fragments, thinking of the tiny pieces from the Cairo Geniza. I was stunned that many of the Afghan Jewish documents were very large – a full page or a half page – with mostly legible handwritten Hebrew, Arabic, or Persian letters. That means, I hope, that the potential for scholars to decipher the documents and uncover their stories is fairly high.

Interestingly, not all of the 250 documents from the new acquisition contain Jewish elements. About 150 pieces, written in Persian and Arabic, date from the 12th and early 13th century, and several of their authors seem to be Muslim traders. Some documents from this collection are legal in nature and focus on trade, but are not necessarily written by traders themselves.

The other 100 documents, researchers now believe, do not come from a Jewish communal geniza (repository of sacred documents) as originally surmised, but from the private collection of a Jewish family, led by one Abu Nassar Ben Daniel.

These documents date earlier, from the 11th century, and vary from letters and articles related to the family’s trading business to handwritten copies of religious and biblical texts. Notably the collection includes part of a Talmudic section from the Mishna in Avodah Zarah, significant because, reports Yediot Aharonot, this document is now “the earliest evidence of religious literature in the Persian-speaking east.”

This Ben Daniel archive can offer exciting new knowledge regarding the Jews’ socioeconomic and religious life in Afghanistan and, importantly, on the larger connections between the Afghan Jewish community and the wider Jewish world.

One of the documents we saw contained handwritten Shabbat prayers, perhaps originally part of a prayer book. A single page included the special blessing said on challah (hamotzi lehem min ha’aretz) and a section from the Amida portion specific to Shabbat day prayers (Yismach Moshe bematnat helkho ki eved ne’aman karata lo).

“These are the same words that we say every Shabbat,” said Dr. Finkelman, referring to the Amida lines, “but this is from Afghanistan a thousand years ago.”

It appears then that this Shabbat prayer already had been standardized, and spread far across the Jewish world.

Since the collection in its entirety includes Jewish and Muslim writers and many languages, it also has substantial potential to show us what life meant for the greater region’s numerous Jewish communities, local Muslim communities, and the relationships between the two. The documents convey, said Dr. Finkelman, that Bamiyan’s Jews and Muslims lived relatively well together. We have receipts written between Jews and Muslims showing that they traded and conducted business with one another.

He further pointed out that all the Afghan documents, surprisingly, were made from paper, not parchment. Paper was available in this region even 10 centuries ago but many other nations had to rely on parchment due to paper’s scarcity.

Thinking about the delicacy of paper and how these thin documents, records of forgotten Jewish history, survived all those years to make their way to an independent Jewish state was another of many inspiring moments during the visit.

The National Library of Israel says it plans to digitize the new collection and make them accessible for scholars and the public. About 500 more documents from the Ben Daniel collection are rumored to still be in the possession of antiquities dealers, promising more revelations.

Discoveries of this scale often raise as many questions as answers. Will we get to see responsa, the classic form of questions-and-answers from Jewish communities to leading rabbis and yeshivas of the day, about their personal, professional, socio-economic, religious and family lives? Did the Ben Daniel archive and the other 150 documents written by Muslim traders belong to that one family, or rather two – perhaps many more – owners? Will we catch even a glimpse of mentions of women and children? Thus far, said Dr. Finkelman, we do not have marriage contracts (ketubot) or divorce documents. But considering the hundreds of medieval Afghan Jewish documents still with antiquities dealers, who knows what surprises lie in wait.

The astounding discovery of the Afghan Jewish documents also raises the timely question whether more treasure troves of Jewish historical items in the Middle East and Central Asia are waiting to be unearthed or else face being destroyed, or simply lost to history forever, given the region’s instability. We already know about the Iraqi Jewish archive, the collection of centuries-old Jewish items stolen by Saddam Hussein’s Mukhabarat, the feared secret police, that the American army stumbled upon and recovered from a Mukhabarat basement in 2003.

The Iraqi Jewish collection now lives in the National Archives in Washington, DC. It’s likely that similar archives, collections, and genizas still remain in Syria, Iran, Egypt, Iraq and many other cities and countries in the Middle East and Central Asia that had a Jewish presence for hundreds of – and, as demonstrated with the Afghanistan collection, even a thousand – years. Afghanistan’s medieval Jewish documents and the ongoing valiant work by the Jewish community and the National Library of Israel to recover them highlights the meaning of salvaging our own history, all the while making us wonder: what else is waiting to be found?

The writer is the author of From Kabul to Queens: The Jews of Afghanistan and Their Move to the United States.

http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Discovering-Afghanistans-1000-year-old-Jewish-life-471767
claims of Pashtuns being one of lost tribe
i've been advocating for some time

we are muslim hebrews
 
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Considering that your undeclared war is becoming a declared war this year ( quoting Ashraf Ghani ) we still have done reasonably well. You entire machinery is busy trying to dismantle the current setup in Afghanistan, so considering all this, the NUG still stands and functions pretty well. There are no significant trade issues with any, and as day passes we strengthen whatever trade mechanism that are in place, good case point can be the trilateral Iran, India Afghanistan agreement, you can get the list of the recent agreements from the ministry of commerce site. The only exception is Pakistan, blocking transit routes which of course is in a state of war with Afghanistan.

Again ( Ashraf Ghani has been on the record on these ) so these are not my shenanigans ;)

Buddy do you have the timeline in brief for India-AFG-Iran transport corridor +port (Chahbahar). That should be instrumental in connecting AFG to rest of the world, esp when central asia is also brought into it.
 
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You should ask how it is going for the Saudis? practically begging the Yemenis to make peace. Anyways Pakistan is neither Saudi or nor Turkey, have you wondered why the jurnails have kept their exercise covert in Afghanistan? Afghanistan it's a different ball game, actually it will be a blessing for the NUG that Pakistan attacks Afghanistan.
Anyways nations rise and fall, we invaded you for centuries, you can have fun for a couple of years, continue the same course of action and you will lose the rest of Pakistan as well, good case should be Bangladesh.

Here is a video which should educate you a bit, he is a former Pakistani diplomat and a Pakistani pakhtoon like yourself.
starts at 6:35 min.






Have you been sending cakes and cookies until now? The largest migration of refugees in the world is happening right now.

True Pakistan is neither turkey or Saudi , its militarily superior to both . Pakistan has been conducting cross border operations inside Afghanistan for a while now .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghanistan–Pakistan_skirmishes

  • 20 December 2014 - JF-17 Thunders from Pakistan Air Force Western Air Command Flew into Afghanistan in Kunar Province and reportedly hit 27 Targets. Air Strikes were carried out in three phases throughout the Night and reportedly 50 militants were killed. An Afghan soldier was also killed when an Afghan mobile Patrol was mistakenly identified as a militant vehicle by Pakistani Aircraft, SSG was also sent in to get the bodies of as many militants as possible. ANA Troops did not retaliate to the Pakistani Aircraft as the Ministry of Defence (Afghanistan) directed not to engage Pakistani Forces.
 
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True Pakistan is neither turkey or Saudi , its militarily superior to both . Pakistan has been conducting cross border operations inside Afghanistan for a while now .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghanistan–Pakistan_skirmishes

  • 20 December 2014 - JF-17 Thunders from Pakistan Air Force Western Air Command Flew into Afghanistan in Kunar Province and reportedly hit 27 Targets. Air Strikes were carried out in three phases throughout the Night and reportedly 50 militants were killed. An Afghan soldier was also killed when an Afghan mobile Patrol was mistakenly identified as a militant vehicle by Pakistani Aircraft, SSG was also sent in to get the bodies of as many militants as possible. ANA Troops did not retaliate to the Pakistani Aircraft as the Ministry of Defence (Afghanistan) directed not to engage Pakistani Forces.

Here is how superior your military is.

- Lost half of the country
- Surrendered in thousands to the arch rival.
- Lost all the wars it fought / started.
- Hanged one of the civilian leadership ( Bhutto) and threw others in jail through coups, unless you buy argument that it has saved Pak from a supposed boogeyman by kicking out elected officials and by ruling Pak .:P

Give me a break man.

Didn't want to go this route, but you started throwing stones, which is not a good idea when you live in a house made out of glass.

Gonna end this discussion because it will get uglier.

Peace.

Buddy do you have the timeline in brief for India-AFG-Iran transport corridor +port (Chahbahar). That should be instrumental in connecting AFG to rest of the world, esp when central asia is also brought into it.

I dont have the brief with me sadly but you're right it will help Afghanistan by working around Pak's hegemony on Afghan trade. As we speak the level of Pak control has diminished significantly because we have now working alternatives in place with regards to other neighbours.
Pakistan may think it has all the cards but I can assure you that this Afghanistan is not the one from 90s and it will have the last laugh.
 
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Here is how superior your military is.

- Lost half of the country
- Surrendered in thousands to the arch rival.
- Lost all the wars it fought / started.
- Hanged one of the civilian leadership ( Bhutto) and threw others in jail through coups, unless you buy argument that it has saved Pak from a supposed boogeyman by kicking out elected officials and by ruling Pak .:P

Give me a break man.

Didn't want to go this route, but you started throwing stones, which is not a good idea when you live in a house made out of glass.

Gonna end this discussion because it will get uglier.

Peace.

http://www.dawn.com/news/1215526

Cumbrian patrol is the toughest competition in armed forces held in UK every year and Pakistan has won it more times than anyone else .

We lost all wars? What is Kashmir and Gilgit baltistan doing with us ?:D . In 65 Your friends wanted Breakfast in Lahore Gymkhana .:D . As for Airforce we wiped half of IAF in 65 . At Kargil maybe you should ask this Indian jurnail what he thinks about it . ;)


As for the saudi's they are trained by Pakistan army and our officers are stationed there . Not only the saudi's but many other middle eastern countries are trained by us .
 
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- Lost half of the country
- Surrendered in thousands to the arch rival.
- Lost all the wars it fought / started.
- Hanged one of the civilian leadership ( Bhutto) and threw others in jail through coups, unless you buy argument that it has saved Pak from a supposed boogeyman by kicking out elected officials and by ruling Pak .:P

Even despite those black marks, still much superior to your military, controlled by warlords and made up of child rapists, hashish addicts and Taliban fighters waiting to defect. Come on, there's no contest here. If a bunch of farmers can take over your cities, then our military could do wonders. It seems that billion dollar investment from India has turned you Afghans into tough-talking Rambos but with beards and pre-pubescent boys between your legs. :lol: Don't forget about the reality of things. :agree:
 
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Even despite those black marks, still much superior to your military, controlled by warlords and made up of child rapists, hashish addicts and Taliban fighters waiting to defect. Come on, there's no contest here. If a bunch of farmers can take over your cities, then our military could do wonders. It seems that billion dollar investment from India has turned you Afghans into tough-talking Rambos but with beards and pre-pubescent boys between your legs. :lol: Don't forget about the reality of things. :agree:

Thought you were better than resorting to cheap insults and cursing? seems I was wrong
 
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Thought you were better than resorting to cheap insults and cursing? seems I was wrong

I don't like speaking like this because it reminds me of Youtube and Facebook comment sections.
But when I'm dealing with comments and ridiculous threats like this...
we invaded you for centuries, you can have fun for a couple of years, continue the same course of action and you will lose the rest of Pakistan as well, good case should be Bangladesh.
Pakistan may think it has all the cards but I can assure you that this Afghanistan is not the one from 90s and it will have the last laugh.

a much harsher tone is required.
 
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I don't like speaking like this because it reminds me of Youtube and Facebook comment sections.
But when I'm dealing with comments and ridiculous threats like this...



a much harsher tone is required.

Which part of this was ridiculous? Continue playing with groups like Talis and the blowback will be felt in Pakistan, good casepoint can be TTP, which was ruling SWAT and are still not dead yet and continue to wreak havoc in Pakistan. TTP was controlling your major cities, and considered your constitution as null and void, how do you see this as not dissection of Pakistan? Dissection of a country doesn't have to be done by a conventional army which was the case to some extent in Bangladesh, but dissection of country can be done by groups like TTP, which is being bred out of your polices of sleeping with Afghan Talis. How is the TTP living in areas where Afghan Talis are active? Have you asked yourself that? Because they are brother in arms,these same brother in arms are bent on dissecting Pakistan.
You may through how the mighty Pak army will save the day but the fact of the matter is that groups like Punjabi Talis etc are just a culmination or your jurnails trying to project power in Afghanistan and the same chickens are coming home to roost

Not sure how old you are, but has anyone in their wildest dreams would have thought that groups like Talis would actually rule cities like SWAT, Bannu and all FATA in 90s? But it did happen, didn't it? Thus continue on the same path and you will see where Pakistan stands in a decade or so.

So before you resort to trolling, you should look at the bigger picture and stop throwing insults like a teenager.
 
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Which part of this was ridiculous? Continue playing with groups like Talis and the blowback will be felt in Pakistan, good casepoint can be TTP, which was ruling SWAT and are still not dead yet and continue to wreak havoc in Pakistan. TTP was controlling your major cities, and considered your constitution as null and void, how do you see this as not dissection of Pakistan? Dissection of a country doesn't have to be done by a conventional army which was the case to some extent in Bangladesh, but dissection of country can be done by groups like TTP, which is being bred out of your polices of sleeping with Afghan Talis. How is the TTP living in areas where Afghan Talis are active? Have you asked yourself that? Because they are brother in arms,these same brother in arms are bent on dissecting Pakistan.
You may through how the mighty Pak army will save the day but the fact of the matter is that groups like Punjabi Talis etc are just a culmination or your jurnails trying to project power in Afghanistan and the same chickens are coming home to roost

Not sure how old you are, but has anyone in their wildest dreams would have thought that groups like Talis would actually rule cities like SWAT, Bannu and all FATA in 90s? But it did happen, didn't it? Thus continue on the same path and you will see where Pakistan stands in a decade or so.

So before you resort to trolling, you should look at the bigger picture and stop throwing insults like a teenager.

TTP are not "Taliban" which is Afghan phenomena. TTP mercenaries consisted of uzbeks, chechens, arabs etc and native Pakistanis. While Taliban are indigenous Afghan pakhtun movement. So this blow back have nothing to do with Pakistan supporting Taliban. But have everything to do with Soviet invasion and later on Pakistan support to mujahidin from all over the world who settled in Afghanistan. These people were pushed to FATA after USA invasion. If USA didn't put pressure on Pakistan to act against them then things could have been different. Later on TTP got support from India and Afghanistan governments as usual.

Basically this blow back is all thank to Afghanistan being our neighbour and USA invasion. Afghanistan after defeating Soviets have also defeated even bigger super power NATO but yet can't take on bunch of tallies in sleepers :D
 
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There is a lot of areas your country can assist Afghanistan and we can also learn on how to survive as a country when surrounded by wolves.

Cybersecurity is one areas that Afghans may benefit from Israeli know-how.

Remember the wife of the Afghan president is a christian, something unheard off in surrounded countries.

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I don't think that Israel is surrounded by ' wolves ' , it's a wolf itself . Killing Palestine and Their children.
Look at what they're doing to our muslim brothers , have you ever seen arabs or yemen doing the same to this child eating terrorist, have you seen Arabs going inside their city and killing them like they do ? Look what they did to ghaza.

They're yahood, the most unlike people by God almighty , will never be your friend as said by God almighty and God is never wrong . do you think they're so happy willing to help you without demanding you to harm other muslims.

Bringing israel into south Asia will only make your neighbours more against you as no one in your neighbours including iran , Turkey likes this child eating monster. The muslim countries will then think twice to provide you any help . .
You're way too liberal but Afghanistan has extremist muslims , involvement of Israel will produce more jihadis.
Anyway, you can do trade with anyone you like but israel is certainly a wolf itself .


President's wife being a christian isn't a sign of modernity , our own leaders and players have married christian women and we've no issue with that and no! it isn't something extraordinary .

I don't think that being educated is all that describes a person , I feel sorry for afghanistan and for my own many countrymen who can't get education. Education isn't all that defines a person . If education is all then look at america government , George Bush , osama bin laden , maulvi haibatullah, abu bakar al baghdadi. . Look what they did to Muslims and the world.
Yes , education is important nowadays but an uneducated person or a nation shouldn't be considered ' lowly ' or shouldn't be bashed .

Our own prophet saww was uneducated but he is the most beloved to the creator of skies and earth so it's your morals and faith that completes a person .
 
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