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‘Disappeared’ still haunt Balochistan: HRW

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whatever you mentioned is Normal and happens in every country..and they cannot be considered as massacre..excluding Samjhota killing

if you have observed behaviour of defferent countries towards Minorities and especially Muslims you will understand how much tolerant India is

karachi , where only in 4 days 100+ were killed witnessed masacre

That's rich, what happens in India is ok, plus those people were killed by terrorists. How is that even relevant to the discussion. Like I said, we are a nation in a state of war. Terrorists attack on a daily basis. What does that have to do with the Baloch situation ?

Balochistan where daily a son and father are martyred and waziristan where Drones are killing innocents in dozens shows the lack of responsibility by your own army towards your won people

Baloch sitaution is a result of militant activities by BLA and sister outfits.
As for Waziristan, SWA is clear. NWA is still under the terrorist's control. Most people dying as a result of Drone strikes are terrorists however, the collateral damage is also a common occurance and is condemnable. I'm sure when we take NWA, we will ensure a stop to drone strikes. But this again is irrelevant to Balochistan.

and yes nothing of this sort happen in any where in India..yow may cry about a single rape in India but we can only laugh about hundreds of killing you do to minorities, balochis in your own country

Source ? And 4000 reported cases of rape in Kashmir is not 1, take some pre-school, it will do you a world of good.

just look at terrorist control kashmir you have...Human right violation is nothing new there

Neutral Source ?

and as your Backward area is concerned ..i was a bit generous in calling it backward and not stone age..!!..you need to learn the defination of "developed" area...

Source ? Let's not level allegations here and stick to hard facts.
 
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That's rich, what happens in India is ok, plus those people were killed by terrorists. How is that even relevant to the discussion. Like I said, we are a nation in a state of war. Terrorists attack on a daily basis. What does that have to do with the Baloch situation ?

Yup, you are in a state of war but this cannot justify the killing of Balochis by your military. Now don't say that CIA, RAW are behind this disappearance of Balochis. :lol:



Baloch sitaution is a result of militant activities by BLA and sister outfits.
As for Waziristan, SWA is clear. NWA is still under the terrorist's control. Most people dying as a result of Drone strikes are terrorists however, the collateral damage is also a common occurance and is condemnable. I'm sure when we take NWA, we will ensure a stop to drone strikes. But this again is irrelevant to Balochistan.

Thats good..but don't you think your army should have been 'brave' enough and ensured the people of Waziristan that there is something called 'defence' in Pakistan...we will discuss about bolded part when your army in actual do what you mentioned ..... yes it is as offtopic as Your posts about India


Source ? And 4000 reported cases of rape in Kashmir is not 1, take some pre-school, it will do you a world of good.

http://spaces.brad.ac.uk:8080/download/attachments/748/brief+37.pdf

pakistan Christian minorities in Pakistan: little freedom and rising Islamic pressure - Asia News

BBC News | SOUTH ASIA | Analysis: Pakistan's Christian minority

and i haven't posted link on the condition of Hindus and Sikhs in Pakistan..you very well know what happens to them


Neutral Source ?

here you go..please read entire report ..
UNHCR | Refworld | "With Friends Like These...": Human Rights Violations in Azad Kashmir




Source ? Let's not level allegations here and stick to hard facts.

Waziristan and baluchistan are not the developed part of Pakistan...prove me wrong with a neutral source.
 
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Yup, you are in a state of war but this cannot justify the killing of Balochis by your military. Now don't say that CIA, RAW are behind this disappearance of Balochis. :lol
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I already did, they are picked up by insurgents and kidnappers(common in Balochistan). Do you know how to read ?



Thats good..but don't you think your army should have been 'brave' enough and ensured the people of Waziristan that there is something called 'defence' in Pakistan...we will discuss about bolded part when your army in actual do what you mentioned ..... yes it is as offtopic as Your posts about India

You are so off-topic I missed what this whole thing is about.



Yes, they are doing very well and enjoy right as any other Pakistani. In any case, our minorities are treated better than India treats theirs. As per you provided links:

However, appeal courts in Pakistan have generally freed Christians convicted under the blasphemy law.

This line has been extracted from the very link you quoted. You might want to read up on how Christians are treated in India:
Hindus 'paid for Christian murders' in India | The Australian



The whole world lauded Pakistan on the Earth quake response, the writer criticizes it. This shows the legitimacy of the entire report. No doubt the people had to suffer a lot but blaming it on Pakistan is just a source of solace for the weak of mind.


Waziristan and baluchistan are not the developed part of Pakistan...prove me wrong with a neutral source.

Waziristan isn't prove me wrong with a neutral source.
 
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I joined this discussion for preceptron, who has left. I have tried and maintain a healthy discussion with you but I feel that you are much too young, naive and immature to carry out a discussion on these issues. Your posts reek of inexperience. You constantly try to dissociate from your nation's problems and take non issue from Pakistan, blow them out of proportion and then try to base an entire discussion on it. I think you need to do more research work before you can carry out a sustained discussion on this topic.
 
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I joined this discussion for preceptron, who has left. I have tried and maintain a healthy discussion with you but I feel that you are much too young, naive and immature to carry out a discussion on these issues. Your posts reek of inexperience. You constantly try to dissociate from your nation's problems and take non issue from Pakistan, blow them out of proportion and then try to base an entire discussion on it. I think you need to do more research work before you can carry out a sustained discussion on this topic.

You shouldn't have replied to my posts if you couldn't handle the content rather than personal attack.. and My posts was not a reply to you from beginning, i was just replying to some random poster posting irrelevant Video..!! Kindly refrain yourself from replying my posts if in the end you have to make such allegations..
 
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You shouldn't have replied to my posts if you couldn't handle the content rather than personal attack.. and My posts was not a reply to you from beginning, i was just replying to some random poster posting irrelevant Video..!! Kindly refrain yourself from replying my posts if in the end you have to make such allegations..

I was merely giving you time to work on your stuff, as for "couldn't handle the content", well......there wasn't much to begin with. And no, you weren't replying to some random poster. Your first post was "Shame on Pakistani Military" which lead to this entire discussion during which you kept jumping from one line of argument to another.
 
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Balochistan Can Be Saved
Posted on July 26, 2011

Lubna Umar & Farooq-uz-Zaman
Exclusive Article

That governance has never been our forte is a fact that is evident from the extravagance with which incidents of violence are surfacing in Balochistan. Despite special efforts being directed towards it by the government and the armed forces, the province successfully remains grossly underdeveloped and backwards. In this backdrop it becomes essential to analyze the unrest and the factors responsible for such a state that perpetuate and subsequently lead to demands of an ‘independent’ Balochistan.

Despite severe economic setbacks there have been no cuts in the allocation of funds for the province. In the fiscal year 2010-11 Balochistan alone received Rs152bn which amounts to Rs100bn increase from that of the financial year 2004-05. Furthermore, a 4% increase in Balochistan’s share from the Divisible Pool has been a landmark of the NFC Award along with a 12-year installment of gas development charges of a total sum of Rs120bn. An additional Rs10bn grant was also released by the federal government in 2009. The shift of GST (General Sales Tax) to the provinces became another significant feature that turned into a major source of revenue generation for Balochistan.

It is an enigma why the province is experiencing yet another upheaval despite soaring of funds and resources. The age old grievances, it appears, are being exploited for the wrong ends. Why has the provincial government not been able to make a difference in the lives of the people? Why are the funds not being utilized? This underutilization of resources surely offers no genuine prospect for any miraculous improvement, thus becoming instrumental in maintaining the status quo.

The virtual indifference of the state apparatus has forced the people to lead a nomadic life in the post modern age when education and technology ought to have turned the dry barren land into an oasis of prosperity. Concentrating on trivial matters of personal interest, almost every government has leased the entire province to the sardars, who have kept strict control over the local populace turning the province into an example of personal fiefdom to maintain their power politics.

The question that needs to be asked here is who are these self appointed custodians of the Baloch people? Have they actually been chosen by the locals and have all the attributes to be classed as their true representatives? Are they actually advocating the Baloch case or once again, fueling discord? Who benefits from the formation of an independent Balochistan State? Where does the change in leadership guarantee a distinct improvement in the lives of the masses? Will the wealth that actually belongs to the citizens be made accessible to them at all or will the same exploitation perpetuate with a changed set of hands.

Background interviews with a number of prominent figures both at provincial and federal level, formerly or currently involved in the administrative or security affairs of the province almost commonly suggest that unless a massive development work is started on district levels, under a well-coordinated contingency plan, the situation cannot be turned to normal. Furthermore, cognizance of the threat of a big magnitude at national level is missing; the province can be saved from slipping into hands of insurgents if the entire nation, government, security apparatus, intelligentsia and civil society join don’t stand together. In words of former DG FC, “Pakistanis are a nation that can do wonders.”

The ability to perform miraculously, however, has been marred by the predominant sardari control over the lives of the people. These sardars can be easily classed as a growing ’beggar mafia’ with only one vocation; to sell their grievances and collect money from both the Centre and foreign forces. Thus, development of any sort would prove detrimental to this lucrative career which virtually thrives on violence and bloodshed. This turbulence and the tribal culture keep the law enforcers at bay, resulting in a huge security gap that benefits the separatist agenda.

The resultant void thus spells the need for the Frontier Corps as the only effective law enforcement agency to enter the province with the full support of the government. What was primarily the responsibility of the state was shifted conveniently to the shoulders of the FC and along with it the right to be criticized for every ill that befalls the province. Therefore, the entire security and safety aspect of the province including that of cities, borders, developmental projects etc was undertaken by the FC.

According to the data provided by the FC a total of 1,623 illegal immigrants have been checked by the law enforcement agencies in the past six months and handed over to the police for interrogation. Among them 14 were from Iran, 15 from Bangladesh and the rest Afghan citizens who had entered Balochistan illegally.
One is compelled to ask what is the apparent attraction these foreign individuals have for coming to Balochistan? Is it vacationing or sightseeing that they seek to indulge in? With an increase in violence against the state and law enforcement forces one needs to ask from where the insurgents acquire the relentless supply of arms and ammunition. Could these illegal entrants have something to do with it?

In the past six months Balochistan has witnessed around 107 incidents of attacks on gas installations, 6 on railways and railway tracks, 43 rocket attacks along with 64 incidents of targeted killings and 142 abductions by insurgents. The security forces are surely not spared by the insurgents as a total of 2,000 FC soldiers have lost their lives in these attacks so far.

With the rapidly deteriorating law and order situation the societal practices and responses have also altered visibly. It wouldn’t be entirely incorrect if we state that the society is acting as a resistant force against the fight to curb terrorism. This demoralizes the security forces that are under great duress from the threat they face from insurgents while facing an increased criticism directed towards them from within the society.
Most of us have forgotten or maybe never realized that we are at war where we have multiple enemies that can strike from every direction at any time. To end this agonizing era we have to play an equal and constructive part along with those who are fighting to keep the pieces of our land together.

The Balochistan turmoil needs to be viewed in a larger perspective that includes the economic, political and cultural context of the province in view. Where, the tribal social organization proves to be the major hindrance in exploiting available funds and resources for maintaining hegemony and perpetuating existing power paradigms. Strongholds of tribal ethnic politics over people need to be deconstructed and restructured to empower the masses.

For this state to materialize, however, coordination between all the operating forces in Balochistan is the only formula. The politicians, administration, judiciary, the society and the law enforcing agencies need to strike harmony with each other to augment their functional potential to bring long lasting peace and resolve age old issues. Peace in Balochistan is certainly not a mission impossible.
 
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pakistan is exploiting their resources and they gas and their wealth but in favor they return killings of innocents.hope they will get their place
 
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pakistan is exploiting their resources and they gas and their wealth but in favor they return killings of innocents.hope they will get their place

It is a part of Pakistan and we as a nation as exploiting our own resources which I fail to understand why bothers Indians so much. Punjab provides flour to much of Pakistan and Afghanistan(smuggled), should Punjab also be considered "exploited"?
No "innocents" have been killed in Balochistan. There is an on-going insurgency, as a result of which there has been collateral damage but it is hardly as wide spread as many Indians seem to think.
 
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It is a part of Pakistan and we as a nation as exploiting our own resources which I fail to understand why bothers Indians so much. Punjab provides flour to much of Pakistan and Afghanistan(smuggled), should Punjab also be considered "exploited"?
No "innocents" have been killed in Balochistan. There is an on-going insurgency, as a result of which there has been collateral damage but it is hardly as wide spread as many Indians seem to think.

i have self ready and watched paksitani shows in which they were stating that how leaders and common people get dissapeared and found dead.few of them are found hanging their hands on trees.if nothing is going on??then wats problem there??one show was showing even 10% balochistan is not educated:disagree:
 
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i have self ready and watched paksitani shows in which they were stating that how leaders and common people get dissapeared and found dead.few of them are found hanging their hands on trees.if nothing is going on??then wats problem there??one show was showing even 10% balochistan is not educated:disagree:

Insurgents, they operate with zero accountability. Are known to be ruthless. It's their handy work. Plus kidnapping is rampant in Balochistan. There are a lot more probabilities than just blaming it on the establishment.
 
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As far as education is concerned, the people live a tribal, nomadic way of life. Peasants are not allowed to be more educated than the tribal lords, in such a society, maintaining a high literacy rate is challenging.
 
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It is a part of Pakistan and we as a nation as exploiting our own resources which I fail to understand why bothers Indians so much. Punjab provides flour to much of Pakistan and Afghanistan(smuggled), should Punjab also be considered "exploited"?
No "innocents" have been killed in Balochistan. There is an on-going insurgency, as a result of which there has been collateral damage but it is hardly as wide spread as many Indians seem to think.

You can check you tube Videos. There are 100 of such videos where there has been lots of protests, killing and everything possible one can imagine for separation.
 
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You can check you tube Videos. There are 100 of such videos where there has been lots of protests, killing and everything possible one can imagine for separation.

I'm not saying there haven't been protests and I am not saying there have been killings. I'm saying that this stuff is the handy work of the insurgents and is often portrayed by them as being done by the agencies. Propaganda is a very important tool in an insurgency. These guys are ruthless. They set fire to entire buses of non-Balochs, carry out summary executions of non-balochs.
 
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Pakistan's military has escalated its brutal campaign of abduction and extra-judicial execution targeting nationalist rebels in Balochistan province, human rights groups have said.

In a new report on "enforced disappearances" by military and intelligence officials, Human Rights Watch (HRW) criticised the failure of Pakistan's civilian leaders to halt what it termed a human rights "free-for-all".

"The national government has done little to end the carnage," said HRW's Asia director, Brad Adams. "President Asif Ali Zardari has to realise it cannot just be wished away."

Covered in desert, mineral-rich and strategically located between Iran and Afghanistan, Balochistan is home to some of the most brutal state-led human rights abuses in Pakistan.

Suspected nationalist rebels or sympathisers are routinely picked up in broad daylight, taken to centres where torture is rife and, in an increasing number of cases, later found dead on the roadside with a bullet wound in the head.

Local groups have counted more than 180 bodies, mostly of men who reportedly disappeared at the hands of the Inter-Services Intelligence agency (ISI) in co-operation with Frontier Corps paramilitaries.

The military leadership is accused of orchestrating the violence as it seeks to crush a small rebel force it believes is being covertly boosted by arch-rival India – an accusation some western spies say is true.

The nationalists are also guilty of gross human rights violations, in particularly the targeted killing of Punjabi "settlers", teachers, politicians and anyone deemed to be co-operating with the military.

A sense of lawlessness and impunity reigns in the province, which covers 43% of Pakistan's land mass but accounts for just 5% of the population. One former detainee said his captors told him: "We can torture you, or kill you, or keep you for years at our will. It is only the army chief and the [intelligence] chief that we obey."

Army spokesman Major General Athar Abbas said the accusations were false. "We've responded to all this before. It's basically untrue," he said.

Conflict in the western province receives relatively little attention because unlike the Taliban, Baloch rebels have secular politics and pose little serious threat to the army.

Pakistani security officials estimate there are just 1,000 nationalist fighters, whose leaders are largely exiled in the UK, Switzerland and Dubai. But analysts say the barbarity underscores the fragility of Pakistani unity and could be a harbinger of unrest elsewhere.

The rebels want independence from Pakistan, saying that after decades of neglect from the centre they would be better off on their own.

The fighting is small-scale: rebels attack electricity pylons, rail tracks and military convoys; the military responds by detaining those thought to be responsible.

HRW says that in military detention camps, prisoners are beaten, hung upside down and deprived of food and sleep for long periods. Over the past year the bodies of detainees have turned up on the roadside across the province, triggering protests in the provincial capital, Quetta.

The exact number of those detained is unclear. In 2008 the interior minister, Rehman Malik, said at least 1,100 people were missing, but last January the Balochistan home minister put the figure at just 55 people.

Targeted killings of "settlers" and other accused collaborators by rebels is carving up the province along worrisome ethnic lines – in Quetta, for instance, non-Baloch doctors refused to work in Baloch areas, fearing harm.

The Zardari government has tried to appease nationalist sentiment through a generous aid package and greater funding, but the disappearances and deaths have fuelled nationalist sentiment.

A supreme court judge said last year that disappearances from Balochistan posed "the most burning issue in the country". But a judicial enquiry into the matter has been largely toothless due to a lack of military co-operation.

Pakistan's military accused of escalating draconian campaign in Balochistan | World news | The Guardian
 
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