What's new

Did Saudis warn us about Israeli Jets in 1998 ?

In any 'presumed' war between Israel and Pakistan (which can't happen in reality), Pakistan will utterly annihilate Israel because of its sheer superiority in land forces, and its air-cover. Israelis might have quality-edge, but as war would go on...Israelis will be over-whelmed by Pakistan.

And if Israel decides to use nuclear weapons---well, that would be the end of Judaism/Jewish people as we know it.

Israelis won't risk a direct confrontation with us...
 
.
In any 'presumed' war between Israel and Pakistan (which can't happen in reality), Pakistan will utterly annihilate Israel because of its sheer superiority in land forces, and its air-cover. Israelis might have quality-edge, but as war would go on...Israelis will be over-whelmed by Pakistan.

And if Israel decides to use nuclear weapons---well, that would be the end of Judaism/Jewish people as we know it.

Israelis won't risk a direct confrontation with us...


The words above do not belong to a Pakistani. why?
These words have been used by many Arab Generals and the result of HUGE @rse whooping of you know who.

However if you insist, then I am sorry, you are totally off base.


20 odd operational F-16 cannot face off a modern army.

Asalam-o-alikum,

I was also told by an official the Jets of Israel were in India, and parked in IOK somewhere on these days. and its also confirmed news that their target was khota, and if we not test our nuclear capability they will strike!

Danish

rumor
 
.
The words above do not belong to a Pakistani. why?
These words have been used by many Arab Generals and the result of HUGE @rse whooping of you know who.

However if you insist, then I am sorry, you are totally off base.


20 odd operational F-16 cannot face off a modern army.

Arabs and we are different people.


Israel knows that too.

200 odd F-16s won't be able to destroy a million man fully-armed, one of the best trained army with the air-cover of 76 F-16s armed with AIM-120Cs, and other aerial assets armed with BVRs etc.

Israel will definitely punish Pakistan...ALOT. But in a "pro-longed" conflict, Israel won't be able to withstand the conflict

Anyways, its not happening so no point of discussing
 
.
Arabs and we are different people.


Israel knows that too.

200 odd F-16s won't be able to destroy a million man fully-armed, one of the best trained army with the air-cover of 76 F-16s armed with AIM-120Cs, and other aerial assets armed with BVRs etc.

Israel will definitely punish Pakistan...ALOT. But in a "pro-longed" conflict, Israel won't be able to withstand the conflict

Anyways, its not happening so no point of discussing

Let's not talk like Iranian Mullahs.

We have no bone of contention with Israel.

Neither they have any claims on Pakistan.


So let's chill.
 
. .
Israelis had a contingency after the Indians refused them to land and refuel after the attack fearing an all out attack by Pakistan. The Indians tried to subcontract Sri Lanka as a transit destination for the strike package instead.
  • ISI's station in Colombo found out and relayed back.
  • Multiple contingencies were developed to deal with this situation, including inserting Zarrar units as a covert operations team to mount a spectacular sabotage of the Israeli package when it lands in Sri Lanka en route to Pakistan.
  • Others included Air and Naval strikes on the Lankan air bases in response to such an event.
It became rather easy when the Lankan govt, then very close to Pakistan simply refused the Indo Israeli request to service an attack on Pakistan.
Wow !!! I am Amazed #Astronaut as this is something new for me and i just realized that this too happened . AWESOME
 
.
Mr its no made up story the fact that Israeli Jets were in India to attack us is known fact Mr the only question is when they moved to leave for India did Saudis warned were the ones who warned us first
Mr,
No it was not..No Israeli jets were in India, and that too not for attacking Pakistan..
I was there for 20+ years around Airforce stations and among Airforce officers..
Never heard such Bizarre claim..Unless you can quote some valid claim or photo's of Israeli strike groups in India back then, your Crap is not acceptable..
We were all waiting for a chance to conduct raids sitting in Adampur polishing our Arses inside our Fulcrums, unfortunately it never happened..But we never let anybody use our Airbase or even airspace for waging war on another nation be it friend or enemy...That has been our policy right from day 1..
 
.
By: RMS Azam

This article was written to mark the Fourth Anniversary of Pakistan’s nuclear tests of May 1998.

WINGS OVER CHAGAI


The Role of the Pakistan Air Force during the
May 1998 Nuclear Tests

After the Israeli attack on Iraq’s under-construction French-built nuclear Osirak-type reactor, Tammuz-I, south of Baghdad on 7 June 1981, Pakistan felt that it would be the next target of an Israeli misadventure. The Israeli Air Force (IDF/AF) had, at first, explored the possibility of such a plan and, later, put together operational plans for a possible air strike against Kahuta in the 1980s using satellite photo and intelligence information provided by the US Central Intelligence Agency (CIA). These operational plans are still kept updated in the Headquarters of the IDF/AF and pilots of some specially assigned IDF/AF F-16 and F-15 squadrons are given special training exercises to carry out mock attacks on Kahuta. So much so that a full-scale mock-up of the Kahuta facility was built in the southern Negev Desert for the IDF/AF pilots to train on.

The Kahuta plan was made concurrently with the plan to attack Osirak using the same pilots of the Iraq mission, if it went through successfully. The Israelis planned to either use Indian airbases or fly non-stop from Israel to Kahuta while refuelling their aircraft using airborne tankers. Israeli Airborne Warning and Control System (AWACS) aircraft would jam Pakistani air defence radar while the Israelis took out Kahuta - or at least attempted to do so.

To this effect, India had played its part in cajoling and trying to convince Israel to carry this ill-advised plan through. However, Israel was insisting on using Indian air bases but India was reluctant to allow them such a facility for fear of sparking of another Indo-Pak war.
To all those here, at that time Pakistan didn't possess any credible delivery modes for an all out nuclear war, heck even the Nukes were not ready at that time..If India Wanted, we could have allowed Israelis and even we could have attacked them by complementing Israelis..Pakistan had no answers, Except those F-16s nothing else could match up the Mig 21s and Foxbats, Which were capable of doing Mach 2 Easily..Do u think without nukes in the game, India was afraid of sparking another war??
Man this is a nice joke..India was never afraid of a conventional war with Pakistan..When paksitan was trying to get its hands on nuclear weapon, according to this article India had all the chance to stop it along with Israel, but it didn't do so because of a Pakistani retaliation with conventional weapons???Listen to yourself man, aren't you tickeled..

According to a paper published by the Australian Institute for National Strategic Studies, “Israeli interest in destroying Pakistan’s Kahuta reactor to scuttle the "Islamic bomb" was blocked by India's refusal to grant landing and refueling rights to Israeli warplanes in 1982.” India wanted to see Kahuta gone but did not want to face the blame or the retaliation nor bear any responsibility.
What?????India didn't want to face retaliation????seriously??Man come on, that is some serious cooked up shitt mann..
Retaliation from whom??Pakistan??I don know seriously what to say for this..
America??Man we were not afraid of American Aircraft carrier moving inside indian waters to assist Pakistan during 1971, and u think we would have been worried in 1982???Soviets were actually waiting for this chance to spank Yankee's arse, directly for all the damages they caused using their stingers..Do u think America would have moved a muscle??That too when Israel strikes??


Israel, on its part wanted it to be seen as a joint Indo-Israeli strike so that responsibility could be shared. The Reagan Administration was against this plan, not out of any love for Pakistan’s nuclear programme, but because at that time it was busy fighting the Soviet Union in Afghanistan and considered Pakistan a key ally in the conflict. It informed Israel and India that it could not support such a plan. This plan, therefore, never materialized and was indefinitely postponed, and rightly so, after Pakistan reminded the Israelis that they were not the Iraqis and the Pakistan Air Force was not the Iraqi Air Force. Through indirect channels, Pakistan had also conveyed the message to Israel, if Kahuta was attacked, Pakistan would lay waste to Dimona, Israel’s nuclear reactor in the Negev Desert.

According to this article, If Israel attacks pakstani reactor, then Pakistani will unleash hell on Israeli reactors in Negev desert??With what??F-16s??F-7s??Without any mid air refuelling capacity, this article says that, Pakistan had actually sold the threat to Israelis that it will attack if attacked and the Israelis bought this threat and got so scared and refrained from attacking kahuta, huh???
I don't know what your Airforce veterans would say after reading this article..If there are any body here, I would like to hear from them too on this article..


Pakistan, however, was not taking any chances. Soon after the Osirak raid in 1981, then President Zia-ul-Haq of Pakistan directed PAF Air Headquarters (AHQ) to make contingency plans for a possible Israeli attack on Kahuta. In lieu thereof, the PAF Chief of Air Staff issued an Air Tasking Order to the Air Officer Commanding of the Air Defence Command to take suitable measures for the air defence of Kahuta and prepare a contingency plan for a retaliatory PAF strike on Dimona, in case Kahuta was attacked. As a follow-up to this directive, a special Operations Room was established at AHQ, Chaklala to oversee the task of defending Pakistan’s strategic nuclear facilities at Kahuta and Karachi. A study of the air defence ground environment of Kahuta was carried out and gaps and weaknesses in the air defences were filled and strengthened. On 10 July 1982, a special contingency plan was issued. In the event of an Israeli attack on Pakistan's strategic installations, plans were drawn up for a retaliatory Pakistani strike on Dimona. The strike would be carried out by Mirage III/Vs. When Pakistan received 40 General Dynamics Block F-16A/Bs from the US from 15 January 1983 onwards, this new weapons system too was incorporated in Pakistan’s contingency plan to carry out retaliatory strikes on Dimona.

In the backdrop of the above scenario, it was, therefore, not surprising that in the aftermath of the Indian nuclear tests of 13 May 1998, Pakistan felt that there was a strong possibility of a joint Indo-Israeli strike against Pakistan's nuclear installations. The PAF had an essential role to play in defending Pakistan's strategic installations and airspace to thwart any such plan. The tensions were so high that a PAF F-16 flying low over the Ras Koh test site in the Chagai District of Balochistan on the eve of the Pakistani nuclear tests was, for a moment, mistaken by the personnel on the ground, to be an Israeli warplane. The incident sparked off a diplomatic squabble between Pakistan and Israel, with the Israeli Ambassador in Washington D.C. denying the existence of any such plan.



It was felt that a joint Indo-Israeli attack could target not only Pakistan's nuclear installations but the nuclear test sites at Ras Koh and Kharan as well. According to intelligence reports, US and Indian intelligence did not know about the Kharan Desert site, which came as a total surprise to them. To counter any high-level threat emanating from the west or south-west, a TPS-43G high level radar had been permanently deployed in the Quetta area since October 1982. The same radar was, therefore, used to provide surveillance on all flying aircraft in the Chagai area.

Dalbandin Airfield had an important role to play during Pakistan’s May 1998 nuclear tests. In fact, two names gained prominence around the world during the tests: (i) Chagai Hills and (ii) Dalbandin airfield. Dalbandin is located among sand dunes some 30 km south-east of the Chagai Hills near the Pakistan-Afghanistan Border. The Koh Khambaran Massif in the Ras Koh Mountain Range, the site of Pakistan's nuclear test, lies south of the Chagai Hills and Dalbandin.

The airfield at Dalbandin was constructed in 1935 to serve as a satellite for Samungli Air Base at Quetta. During the Second World War, it was made operational by the Royal Air Force in order to counter a possible Russian invasion through Iran and Afghanistan. During the 1970s, Dalbandin remained a disused airfield. Although the airstrip is visible from extremely high altitude, pilots making landing approaches often find the airstrip disappearing from view, with sand dunes and sand collected on the runway obscuring it - like a natural camouflage. Dust storms are frequent and cause delays in take-off and landing schedules. The airfield was taken over by the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) in 1985, it received a major face-lift and overhaul, which provided modern navigational aids, air traffic control facilities, a passenger terminal and a paved runway. There are regularly scheduled Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) services to the airport. While not a military facility, this airfield is available to the PAF for emergency landing and recovery of aircraft during peacetime and wartime. During May 1998, Dalbandin air field became the centre of activity for all personnel, military and civilian, flying to and from the nuclear tests sites to the rest of the country.

The nuclear devices were themselves flown in semi-knocked down (SKD) sub-assembly form on two flights of PAF C-130 Hercules tactical transport aircraft from PAF Chaklala in northern Punjab to Dalbandin airfield, escorted even within Pakistani airspace by four PAF F-16As armed with air-to-air missiles. At the same time, PAF F-7P air defence fighters, also armed with air-to-air missiles, were on CAP guarding the aerial frontiers of Pakistan against intruders. Both the nuclear devices (the bomb mechanism, the HMX explosive shields and casing) and the fissile material (the highly enriched uranium components) were divided into separate consignments and flown on separate flights of the Hercules. The PAEC did not want to put all its nuclear eggs in one basket in case something adverse was to happen to the aircraft. The security of the devices and the fissile material was so strict that that PAF F-16 escort pilots had been secretly given standing orders that in the unlikely event of the C-130 being hijacked or flown outside of Pakistani airspace, they were to shoot down the aircraft before it left Pakistan’s airspace. The F-16s were ordered to escort the C-130s to the Dalbandin airfield in Balochistan with their radio communications equipment turned off so that no orders, in the interim, could be conveyed to them to act otherwise. They were also ordered to ignore any orders to the contrary that got through to them during the duration of the flight even if such orders seemingly originated from Air Headquarters.

On 30 May 1998, when Pakistan sixth nuclear device shook the ground in the Kharan Desert, Operation Bedaar '98 had accomplished its mission - that of deterring any misadventure by either India or Israel to strike at Pakistan's nuclear infrastructure.
The same ground shaking happened atleast two decades before in Indian side..So, which means, for atleast twenty years Pakistan was without a nuclear weapon that can deter indian and Israeli attack and India had one..So how many times between these twenty years did Pakistan faced Indian incursions and how much land Pakistan lost because of that??These claims are bull shiit...India never was, is and will be threatening any nation for the sake of doing it unless it is first attacked..

But how real was the possibility of a joint or unilateral Israeli or Indian raid on Pakistan's nuclear installations during May 1998? The answer is that we really don't know. The threat is of such a nature that it can neither be overestimated nor underestimated. Overestimation may lead to minor diplomatic embarrassment, but underestimation will surely lead to catastrophe for Pakistan. So Pakistan prefers to overestimate the threat and pay the price of minor diplomatic embarrassment rather than underestimate it and face the prospective annihilation. This is not to say that the threat was never there during May 1998. Pakistan preferred to be safe rather than sorry. Furthermore, there is concrete evidence that India and Israeli have been planning exactly such an operation to neutralize Pakistan's nuclear capability. It is only the PAF and the risk of nuclear retaliation that is holding them back.
Nope it was not..It was our foreign policy laid out decades before these sort of circuses happen, that stopped us from encouraging any such thoughts from Israleis..
We tried our best diplomatically to stop Pakistan from getting its hands into a nuclear weapon, but this???NOOOOO


According to an Indian official, Subramaniam Swamy, a former member of the Hindu fundamentalist and extremist Bharati Janata Party (BJP) that rules India today, Israel in 1982 asked him to sound out other Indian leaders to see if India would grant Israeli warplanes landing and refueling rights were they to undertake an Osirak-type raid against the Kahuta nuclear reactor in Pakistan. India refused, probably for a combination of reasons. As one expert on South Asia speculated:

"First, the Kahuta facility is well-protected and is thus a hard target to destroy. Second and more important, India expects that any first strike by India against Kahuta would be swiftly followed by a Pakistani attack against India's nuclear facilities. Such an exchange would leave India worse off, since any potential deterrent capability against China would thereby be eliminated. Finally, India would be wary of launching such an attack against Pakistan as it would cause not only great death and destruction to Pakistan, but could blow radioactive fall-out back over India. Such an attack against Pakistan would also alienate the Muslim Middle Eastern states whose amity India has assiduously cultivated."

In a meeting in Paris in July 1985, senior Israeli diplomats and a personal envoy of the late Indian Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi reportedly examined the option in detail. As an incentive, Israel held out an offer to cooperate with India on military intelligence, defence production and transfer or technology. Yitzhak Rabin, then the Israeli Defence Minister, reportedly pinned a lot of hope on that meeting. But India, which had not yet forged diplomatic ties with the Jewish state, ultimately rejected the proposal, ostensibly because of the fear of possible nuclear retaliation by Pakistan and for fear of a possible backlash by Islamic states, including an oil embargo against it by the Muslim member-states of OPEC.

In 1991, India and Pakistan signed a treaty pledging that neither would preemptively attack the nuclear facilities of the other. However, as India’s and Pakistan’s animosity grows, this treaty has been rendered toothless and is unlikely to be adhered to by either side.

In the early 1990s, reports surfaced in London claiming Israel had repeatedly tried to pressure India into launching a joint strike on Pakistan's nuclear weapons development plant at Kahuta. The reports claimed Israeli and Indian pilots would be aided by detailed satellite photographs of Kahuta provided by convicted spy Jonathan Pollard.

According to a report in The Washington Times, citing US officials, Pakistan’s then Foreign Secretary Shamshad Ahmed had notified the US government and UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan that Israeli and Indian warplanes, equipped with long-range refueling gear and operating out of India, had planned to attack Pakistani nuclear facilities at dawn on Thursday, 28 May 1998.

It is possible that for Kahuta, the Israelis will use F-15 Strike Eagles to carry out the actual attack with F-16s providing air cover - a reversal of the roles in the operation against Osirak. Furthermore, it is almost certain that if Israel ever attempted to take out Pakistan’s nuclear weapons facilities, Kahuta will not be the only target and it is highly likely that the Plutonium Reactor at Khushab and the National Development Complex (NDC) at Fatehjung, among others, will be additional targets high on the priority list of the Israelis.

Senior Israeli military intelligence officials had, of course, dismissed the notion that any kind of attack was being contemplated against Pakistan. Pakistan and India "are coming out of the closet and they are trying to drag us with them," one senior intelligence official said. "We have nothing to do with it. They are trying to force us into being a party in this. "The official also maintained that Pakistan's infamous espionage and counter-espionage agency, the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI), was acting on "faulty intelligence." The Israelis maintained that the misinformation may have been propaganda fed to them from some other body, the Iranians perhaps. "They took it seriously. They could have believed it, but they did the responsible thing and checked it out with the Americans," the official said. Not that the Americans could be trusted, given the fact that it was the United States which has supplied all the information and satellite photos of Pakistan's nuclear installations to both Israel and India.

The assessment in Israel is that it does not believe that Pakistan sees the Jewish State as its enemy - not directly and at least not in the short-run. Israeli intelligence officials also do not believe that Pakistan has transferred nuclear or missile technology to nuclear-wannabe Iran. Moreover, they have no proof that Pakistan is or intends to engage in any nuclear cooperation with any other country. An Israeli defence analyst commented to this effect, "Pakistan will not transfer nuclear know-how to any other Muslim country, not out of fear of Israel, but because that would diminish its own importance in the Islamic World. Today, Pakistan is the Islamic world's sole nuclear power, if there are two, Pakistan's position would be reduced. So it is using its nuclear prowess not only as a deterrent against its enemies but also to bolster its relationship with its strategic friends".

Shai Feldman, Director of the Jaffee Center for Strategic Studies at Tel Aviv University in Israel once stated, "I am certain that the Pakistanis have enough trouble on their hands and would refrain from doing something that would actually increase Israel's incentive to cooperate with India. Why would they buy another enemy when the situation is as bad as it is?" Feldman said. "They are not stupid, and they probably know that if we had any evidence of transfer of technology to one of our adversaries then Israel would react and it wouldn't be very pleasant," he added.

And vice versa, Mr. Feldman.




Read more: Grande Strategy
 
.
Indian wet dream turned into cold shower as soon as they realised the grave error in judgement they were about to make.
Shit man, they let Guys like this to post here...Without any proof or any back up claims, u start bashing India by pulling them inside..??Man, it is better to start an India Bashing thread 24x7 instead doing this on every other threads I guess..
Admins, u guys let this happen, in this forum??
 
.
Asalam-o-alikum,

I was also told by an official the Jets of Israel were in India, and parked in IOK somewhere on these days. and its also confirmed news that their target was khota, and if we not test our nuclear capability they will strike!

Danish
Danish,
It seems, your delusions know no limits...How can you guys come with stories like this??
It feels as if I'm reading a James bond comics, to look at your comments..
Have fun guys..
On topic, But India will never let anyone use its space or even airspace to attack any other country be it a friend or a foe..
It is not because we are scared that u have nukes or anything else..It is because Our foreign policy says so, and any government which decides to do something against our sovereign foreign policy will be made to kneel in the parliament..Our parliament is the ultimate deciding authority, not like Pakistan where your ISI and Generals can dictate terms..Hence no party will dare to shift the balance followed for years in our foreign policy..
In 1971, when 90,000 Prisoners of War was captured in Bangladesh(Former east Pakistan), we could have easily chopped them off, or atleast if we had turned a blind eye towards the revolting Bangladeshis, not one would have returned to Pakistan alive because those Mukti baginis were damn too angry on the west paksitanis..
We could have easily done that but we didn't..we followed as committed in the UN and to the international forum..
We took the pain of transporting them to west Pakistan Border all the way without creating any hostility between the soldiers who are being transported, and the civilians on the way, because again it would have been a blood bath..
Not one soldier of Pakistan army was killed in hostility or hatred while departing back to the west pakistani border..
Now any one here touch your heart and tell me, if the same thing would have happened to Indian army at the hands of Pakistan army, would you have transported them safely like we did respecting the international laws and conventions.
Is there anyone here who can answer this question????
 
.
Asalam-o-alikum,

I was also told by an official the Jets of Israel were in India, and parked in IOK somewhere on these days. and its also confirmed news that their target was khota, and if we not test our nuclear capability they will strike!

Danish

Which Khota man? There are a lot of them in Pakistan , although I think @Hyperion is compiling a list.
 
. .
In the old days, maybe, however, today is a different story. I feel as if the Saudi's have realized that Pakistan maybe the only existential threat they face in the long term. Reason? People here have started realizing their treachery, and many don't buy into their fairytales anymore. If you ask me, only true "Banya" in this world is them lizard-eating desert dwellers.

In my personal opinion

no not Saudis, they have standards
for Saudis.. Pakistan and Egypt look after their flanks and Saudis cant see these two countries come to any major harm. yes their funding of Deobandi madrassah's has hurt us but direct attack on our strategic installations is taking it way too far

.. Afghans on the other hand ? I cant say the same
 
. .
Affirmative. I'm compiling a list of all "khotay sikkay" that frequent online forums.......... :sarcastic:
I was referring to this Khota.
donkey.jpg
 
.

Latest posts

Country Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom