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Did Dr Shakil Afridi commit treason?

You are right.. It was a trap(probably unintended) and Pakistani establishment walked right into it. If this was smartly played, Pakistan should have immediately suspended Afridi's license for malpractice and should have diffused the issue. Now that it has been made such a huge issue with talks of treason and what not, the stakes are just too high to walk away from it..

I agree with you, except that Dr. Afridi's case was not a "trap" by any stretch of the imagination, but was unfortunately made into one by the typical overly emotional knee-jerk reaction that is a Pakistani hallmark in such matters to its own detriment over the longer term.
 
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I agree with you, except that Dr. Afridi's case was not a "trap" by any stretch of the imagination, but was unfortunately made into one by the typical overly emotional knee-jerk reaction that is a Pakistani hallmark in such matters to its own detriment over the longer term.

And now lets see what happens next
 
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I agree with you, except that Dr. Afridi's case was not a "trap" by any stretch of the imagination, but was unfortunately made into one by the typical overly emotional knee-jerk reaction that is a Pakistani hallmark in such matters to its own detriment over the longer term.
So i guess you would have also done the same thing and worked for CIA after all you are also a doctor and yet you support Dr Afridi illegal and unethical practices?
 
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And now lets see what happens next

Of course one will have to wait to find out what sort of "accommodation" is arrived at as part of the "comprehensive" review of bilateral relations being conducted by Pakistan.

As of now, there have been no charges filed against him, so if any deal is reached, which is likely, there are no further complications likely. Even if charges are filed, it will be a tall order for the prosecution to prove treason, given the level of proof needed to make such a charge stick, assuming the trial is conducted per established law.
 
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Of course one will have to wait to find out what sort of "accommodation" is arrived at as part of the "comprehensive" review of bilateral relations being conducted by Pakistan.

As of now, there have been no charges filed against him, so if any deal is reached, which is likely, there are no further complications likely. Even if charges are filed, it will be a tall order for the prosecution to prove treason, given the level of proof needed to make such a charge stick, assuming the trial is conducted per established law.

Yes lets see what happens then
 
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I am not sure I understand your question, but USA is only waiting for the parliamentary review process to complete before responding, as Pakistan has asked it to wait. That, I believe, is the correct thing to do for due processes to work. Whether Dr. Afridi's case is part of that "settlement", I do not know, but it would be logical to include it in the overall review.

What business is it the United States to bother about a Pakistani citizen?

I agree with you, except that Dr. Afridi's case was not a "trap" by any stretch of the imagination, but was unfortunately made into one by the typical overly emotional knee-jerk reaction that is a Pakistani hallmark in such matters to its own detriment over the longer term.

Jail for serving the CIA - what is emotional about that?

You are right.. It was a trap(probably unintended) and Pakistani establishment walked right into it. If this was smartly played, Pakistan should have immediately suspended Afridi's license for malpractice and should have diffused the issue. Now that it has been made such a huge issue with talks of treason and what not, the stakes are just too high to walk away from it..

I can recall a certain embassy staff that got jailed in India for falling in love with a Pakistani man (who turned out to be an ISI agent).

Shakil Afridi: another view – The Express Tribune

I have the greatest regard for Feisal H Naqvi not just for his legal acumen but also the ability, rare in this country and getting rarer still, to connect dots and find affinities where none exist to common minds. But I have difficulty agreeing with the arguments he has presented in his op-ed published in this newspaper on March 19, titled “Did Dr Shakil Afridi commit treason?”

The assertion “that merely working for a foreign intelligence agency is not enough to render one a criminal”, going by the examples Feisal has given, should be obvious. Foreign missions generally have intelligence personnel on cover postings. They also employ local people as household help. The domestic staff is not supposed to know, unless one or all of them also belong to the host country’s intelligence — often the case — about the ID of the person that has employed them. In either case, whether they know it or not they are not in the same category as someone who has wilfully been in the employ of a foreign intelligence agency. Please note that I have not used the term “hostile” because no foreign intelligence agency is ever non-hostile even if it belongs to a “friendly” state.

Ditto for the example of the supposed CIA Station Chief going to a restaurant and being fed like other patrons: one, if he knows his craft, the restaurateur is not supposed to know who he is feeding; two, just because the state has allowed someone in, even if supposing it knows who the person is, does not mean the citizens’ dealings with that person outside of what is authorised, legal and in the line of one’s duty can be defended on the basis that if the state can have dealings with such a person so can the citizens.

In both examples, the lawyer in Feisal has picked up the laypersons’ argument, i.e., “that no citizen of Pakistan can legally be employed by a foreign intelligence agency” to rubbish it because those advancing this argument do not have his court skills.

Let’s then first posit that Afridi’s case cannot be likened to these examples. This is of course what Feisal does subsequently when he says, “What we are left with then is the argument that Dr Afridi is guilty of treason because he conspired to commit treason” though he goes on to add the caveat that “The legal question is then this: how is the decision by a Pakistani citizen to assist the forces of a military ally in killing Osama bin Laden equivalent to treason?”

He then presents two answers: “The first is that Osama bin Laden was not an enemy of the state of Pakistan. Presumably, this is not an argument that the government of Pakistan wishes to adopt — at least, not in public (emphasis added).” This is evidently not a legal argument and trots out an assumption which is not only unproven and uncalled for but places the onus of proving such an insinuation on those who make it.

I am more interested in Feisal’s “second argument” — that “the only entity legally justified in taking action against him was the state of Pakistan and that by assisting US intelligence agencies, Dr Afridi assisted in the violation of Pakistan’s sovereignty…”. This Feisal concedes is “legally valid” but argues that “it assumes that Dr Afridi had specific knowledge of the fact that eventual action against Osama bin Laden was going to be taken unilaterally by US Special Forces without the approval and knowledge of the Pakistani government.”

He doubts that such would be the case and since it is not possible that Afridi was privy to what action was to be taken against bin Laden “then Dr Afridi is innocent of treason”.

Wrong. Intelligence work is normally conducted on need-to-know basis. While Aridi was unlikely to know what exactly the Americans would do to take out bin Laden, much less know about Seal Team 6, it is enough, if proved, that he conducted an exercise to determine for a foreign intelligence agency the presence of bin Laden, knew what he was doing and did so without informing his own state. He therefore not only acted in the pay of a foreign state but deliberately withheld vital information which resulted in terrible embarrassment for the State of Pakistan whose citizen he is.

Article 5 of the Constitution of Pakistan is very clear with reference to “Loyalty to State and Obedience to Constitution and Law”. Feisal has already mentioned Jonathan Pollard’s case. Pollard was even granted Israeli citizenship in 1995 and successive Israeli governments have lobbied for his release. President Clinton wrote in his autobiography: “For all the sympathy Pollard generated in Israel, he was a hard case to push in America; he had sold our country’s secrets for money, not conviction, and for years had not shown any remorse. When I talked to Sandy Berger and George Tenet, they were adamantly opposed to letting Pollard go, as was Madeleine Albright.”

But there’s another case: Mordechai Vanunu. Vanunu blew the whistle on the Israeli nuclear programme. His defence was not just moral, opposition to nuclear weapons, but also legal: the Israeli state was in violation of International Law. Yet, the state of Israel did not buy it. Let’s however accept the argument that Vanunu had to violate his citizenship oath to his state because the state was in non-compliance of International Law obligations. In other words he couldn’t have co-opted a state that was violating an obligation. Can this defence be applied to Afridi at a theoretical level?

Perhaps. But then we will have to prove that the State of Pakistan was in non-compliance of the UN legal regime on terrorism. Empirical evidence suggests that Pakistani intelligence agencies have captured, killed, and handed over to the US more AQ and Taliban rank and file than all other agencies combined. It has deployed more than 110,000 troops in FATA and conducted multiple big and small operations in the area in support of the UN regime.

The defence that Afridi might have acted Vanunu-like therefore stretches credulity. Please note that I have offered this defence despite knowing that, as Vanunu’s and other cases testify, no state will ever accept this legal-moral position as viable defence. This is where we get into the problems of consent and sovereignty, accepted notions that place limits on the exercise of International Law and obligations.

Where I fully agree with Feisal is on the point that Afridi should be allowed due process. If he then gets nailed, so be it.
 
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What business is it the United States to bother about a Pakistani citizen?

He is the spouse of a US citizen.

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Shakil Afridi: another view – The Express Tribune

Where I fully agree with Feisal is on the point that Afridi should be allowed due process. If he then gets nailed, so be it.

Due process begins by charging Dr. Afridi. What are the charges that have been laid down against him in a court of law? Following that, presentation of the evidence to prove those charges, including treason, is needed.
 
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Shall I quote you to my congressman the next time Pakistan suffers from a natural disaster?

Your congressman said he owns us?

He is the spouse of a US citizen.
Ok that gives them some sneaky way in to weasel - but yet no premises to demand.

Due process begins by charging D. Afridi. What are the charges that have been laid down against him in a court of law? Following that, presentation of the evidence to prove those charges, including treason, is needed.

Just because an article says "I'm not aware of him being charged" does not mean he is not charged. CJP is releasing all people not charged these days go and raise the issue for him then. See what result you get. I'm pretty sure the US would have attempted this already if it were true.

If he's not been charged, we would want to know too, so that we can ensure he IS charged.
 
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Your congressman said he owns us?
Your answer advertises that Pakistanis are available for rent - that is, bribery - and do not act out of a sense of gratitude or shared humanitarian purpose. Are you sure you wouldn't like to add or subtract from it?
 
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Just because an article says "I'm not aware of him being charged" does not mean he is not charged. ....................

If he's not been charged, we would want to know too, so that we can ensure he IS charged.

If he has indeed been charged, then why the secrecy? A fair process lays out the charges for all to see.
 
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I don't understand why the drug seller to defend the Shakil Afridi and the process? what he is doing here first post after break?
 
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