Developments and Turkish operations in Libya

[Saithan]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1278794992375476224

Wagner etc closing down oil production seems to piss off EU.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1278431833122799617

https://twitter.com/x/status/1278692335761739777

This is turning into a sabotage warfare. While we’re settling in they’re spreading out to strategic locations and preparing.

 

[Vergennes]

Document provided by the Turkish ambassador in France during his hearing in front of the senate,reportedly showing (According to Turkey) the Courbet's maneuveurs during the incident of the 10th of june.

Turkey still denies there was a radar illumination against the French frigate,claims instead the Courbet made dangerous maneuvers and fishtailed Turkish frigates...

Document produit par l’ambassadeur de Turquie lors de son audition au Sénat

 

[Saithan]

Document provided by the Turkish ambassador in France during his hearing in front of the senate,reportedly showing (According to Turkey) the Courbet's maneuveurs during the incident of the 10th of june.

Turkey still denies there was a radar illumination against the French frigate,claims instead the Courbet made dangerous maneuvers and fishtailed Turkish frigates...

View attachment 647478
Document produit par l’ambassadeur de Turquie lors de son audition au Sénat

I think you will agree that there are some topsecret talks in NATO that public isn't informed about. So given that turkish defense minister has publicly said we've handed over the data on that incident to NATO for their review. And NATO review didn't back up France I think it's conclusive that France was:

1. Wrongfully accusing Turkey of Radar illumination.
2. Did a dangerous manouver (as depicted in the picture you shared).

I do not believe I've heard that France shared data of that incident with NATO. Can you confirm this ?

Turkish Foreign Minister is demanding an apology, France is withdrawing from naval missions in mediterranian.

"Guilty people don't run" comes to mind. indirectly France was in the wrong and chooses to remove itself from the area rather than admit fault.

 

[AerospaceTech]

I guess a small proof from Al Watiya. A special design for Turkish HAWK team who is in mission at the desert

 

[what]

That means we will see a more left-ish Macron, now that his right-wing PM is gone. Not going to change anything in foreign policy.

 

[Saithan]

I guess a small proof from Al Watiya. A special design for Turkish HAWK team who is in mission at the desert

I like it.

I was wondering whether Al watiyah may be used as HQ for mainly ANKA. If it has a range of 1400+ km. The it can reach quite some distance.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAI_Anka.

 

[Vergennes]

I think you will agree that there are some topsecret talks in NATO that public isn't informed about. So given that turkish defense minister has publicly said we've handed over the data on that incident to NATO for their review. And NATO review didn't back up France I think it's conclusive that France was:

1. Wrongfully accusing Turkey of Radar illumination.
2. Did a dangerous manouver (as depicted in the picture you shared).

I do not believe I've heard that France shared data of that incident with NATO. Can you confirm this ?

Turkish Foreign Minister is demanding an apology, France is withdrawing from naval missions in mediterranian.

"Guilty people don't run" comes to mind. indirectly France was in the wrong and chooses to remove itself from the area rather than admit fault.

"In the face of this internal crisis, NATO has so far chosen to remain silent. The report on the Courbet incident commissioned by Alliance secretary general Jens Stoltenberg apparently did not seek to offend the Turkish ally. In the absence of "means and time", the investigation is "not exhaustive", they say to the ministry. The report "is not conclusive," assured Tuesday morning the Turkish ambassador to France, Ismail Hakki Musa, questioned by the senators of the defense committee. Under the seal of secrecy, the report has not been released."

https://www.lefigaro.fr/internation...denoncer-le-double-jeu-de-la-turquie-20200701

France,supported by 8 other European nations (the list hasn't been revealed) was the one asking for NATO to investigate the incident. If indeed we didn't have any proofs to back our claims or if we were at fault,I doubt we would be the one asking for a NATO investigation. Wait&see.

That means we will see a more left-ish Macron, now that his right-wing PM is gone. Not going to change anything in foreign policy.

EDIT : A Sarkozyst has been named as the next PM....

 

[Saithan]

"In the face of this internal crisis, NATO has so far chosen to remain silent. The report on the Courbet incident commissioned by Alliance secretary general Jens Stoltenberg apparently did not seek to offend the Turkish ally. In the absence of "means and time", the investigation is "not exhaustive", they say to the ministry. The report "is not conclusive," assured Tuesday morning the Turkish ambassador to France, Ismail Hakki Musa, questioned by the senators of the defense committee. Under the seal of secrecy, the report has not been released."

https://www.lefigaro.fr/internation...denoncer-le-double-jeu-de-la-turquie-20200701

France,supported by 8 other European nations (the list hasn't been revealed) was the one asking for NATO to investigate the incident. If indeed we didn't have any proofs to back our claims or if we were at fault,I doubt we would be the one asking for a NATO investigation. Wait&see.

You do see that the accusation and allegation are not facts or proof right ?

Inconclusive is a term used politically when you can't discern the truth of an occurance. Which translates into "the accusation cannot be proven true".

Also remember that Turkey shared the data on that occurance so we're playing with open cards.

https://www.intellinews.com/nato-ne...n-in-major-row-with-turkey-over-libya-186727/

Funny thing about the article above is that it writes :

As bne IntelliNews has reported, there are fears that the outcome of the conflict could leave both Turkish and Russian military bases in Libya staring across the Mediterranean at France, Italy and other European states.

You are worried about a NATO ally having bases south of France and Italy. In truth EU doesn't care what happens to either side in Libya as long as the oil keeps flowing (ENI/TOTAL).

Also ret. admiral Cem Gürdeniz has said in an interview after the incident that basic radars (not illuminating) and hailing allies is standard practice in NATO. You only illuminate enemy vessels. This is a doctrin in TN and we do not make such mistakes, because we know how EU really feels about Turkey. So we're not going to be the ones to make such a mistake.

But you are right we can only watch and see what will happen.

 

[TheMightyBender]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1278880216648163331

 

[egolfs]

If indeed we didn't have any proofs to back our claims or if we were at fault,I doubt we would be the one asking for a NATO investigation. Wait&see.

This also applies in reverse:
If Turkey didn't have any proof to back her claims or if she were at fault, I doubt Turkey would be asking for an open apology!

 

[Faheka]

MoND and chief of staff in libya

https://twitter.com/x/status/1279012511291932672

 

[LienNoir]

If u re claiming something, it's up to you to prove your claim; There is no other way around. And asking for an apology is just common courtesy after such accusations.

Indeed there is 8 countries who supported France but there is also 22 countries who voted in favor of Turkey. It's just simple math.

 

[Test7]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1279025280724676611

 

[Vergennes]

You are worried about a NATO ally having bases south of France

I think it's fair to say France doesn't actually consider Turkey as an ally,but more like an opponent and think sooner or later there will be an inevitable confrontation. You could cite issues in Cyprus,Greece,the mediterannean as a whole and of course Libya among others.

So yes France is ready to ally or side with not so presentable and doubtful "friends" to counter Turkish's growing influence in Libya and the mediterranean as a whole.

 

[dBSPL]

While everyone is paying attention to Libya, we are about to take a strategic level of cooperation with another African country. It's just a matter of timing. So Mr. Vergennes is right. We are moving towards an inevitable confrontation with France; France taking steps to compensate for Turkey in the eastern Mediterranean, while Turkey also has other preparations in other geographies which are Vital for France's overseas policies. However, we are not the who started this. France carried the process to this point with a meaningless ambition, especially Syria and pkk related issues.

The period of 1995-2005 was promising for Turkish-French relations. It is an indisputable fact that we are now far away from those days. However, it should not be forgotten that even at that time, there was nothing different in the French agenda, Turkish people will never forget these words: https://eksisozluk.com/iktidar-olunca-turkiyeye-sevri-kabul-ettirecegiz--765533?nr=true&rf=iktidara gelince türkiyeye sevri kabul ettireceğiz