Developed cancer drug for 'western patients' who could afford, not 'for Indians': Bayer's CEO

[amitkriit]

But it is Bayer developing the drugs, which are than used to treat the Indians later.

Who is stopping them from developing the drugs? We must encourage Bayer to invest more into R&D. After all we are also the beneficiaries. We will reap the benefit of their new inventions, Europeans will foot the bill of the R&D by purchasing those drugs at market price and by purchasing more company shares to compensate for the Bayer's losses in Indian market. We will humbly recognize their sacrifice.

 

[gambit]

Its worth the life of my countrymen. Now, if pharma companies cannot play by the rules laid down by the GoI, like I said, they are welcome to exit. As per past record, they have remained.

Wrong...Compulsory licensing under the current understanding is new and according to Bayer, it is the first victim of this rule by the Indian government. Other companies in other industries will look very closely at this and if they feel that the GoI will not respect the joint efforts between them and the Indian people, they will leave. They will not leave immediately. They will just gradually reduce production quotas, laying off workers as production lines idles, and even though the process will take years, they will be gone.

 

[surya kiran]

I have...

So how much profit will Natco Pharma make from Indians? Do you think NP will give the drug to Indians for free? NP must pay Bayer %6 for royalty, so if NP must charge Indians even that %6 in order to pay Bayer the royalty, is that not immoral under the current arguments we see here?

Since we are talking about arguments...under trips agreement, countries can issue compulsory licenses for drugs that unaffordable by the population. Now, who is stopping Bayer from applying for the license and manufacturing it in India?

As for % its 7% if I am not mistaken. So let Bayer make money, nobody is debating that point. But, it needs to be affordable to people who are suffering. The issue is Bayer says, we will sell it at round 3 lacs. This is unaffordable to most Indians.

 

[gambit]

Who is stopping them from developing the drugs? We must encourage Bayer to invest more into R&D. After all we are also the beneficiaries. We will reap the benefit of their new inventions, Europeans will foot the bill of the R&D by purchasing those drugs at market price and by purchasing more company shares to compensate for the Bayer's losses in Indian market. We will humbly recognize their sacrifice.

How? Under compulsory licensing?

 

[surya kiran]

Wrong...Compulsory licensing under the current understanding is new and according to Bayer, it is the first victim of this rule by the Indian government. Other companies in other industries will look very closely at this and if they feel that the GoI will not respect the joint efforts between them and the Indian people, they will leave. They will not leave immediately. They will just gradually reduce production quotas, laying off workers as production lines idles, and even though the process will take years, they will be gone.

Its allowed under TRIPS. So there is no argument there. As for production lines, Indian pharma is growing stronger by the day. There is a strong manufacturing base.

Now, here's the deal. If its allowed under a globally signed deal like TRIPS what is Bayer crying about? You want to manufacture, apply for the license and sell it. Nobody is stopping them.

 

[gambit]

Since we are talking about arguments...under trips agreement, countries can issue compulsory licenses for drugs that unaffordable by the population. Now, who is stopping Bayer from applying for the license and manufacturing it in India?

As for % its 7% if I am not mistaken. So let Bayer make money, nobody is debating that point. But, it needs to be affordable to people who are suffering. The issue is Bayer says, we will sell it at round 3 lacs. This is unaffordable to most Indians.

Right...Basically, you are saying that it should be governments who sets the limits on profitability under their jurisdictions.

Marx said: From each according to his ability. To each according to his needs.

Perfect. Utopia.

 

[surya kiran]

Right...Basically, you are saying that it should be governments who sets the limits on profitability under their jurisdictions.

Marx said: From each according to his ability. To each according to his needs.

Perfect. Utopia.

No. I am saying, they are life saving drugs. They need to be made available to the people. There are various ways, in which they can off set costs. Like tax incentives, tax holidays for all earnings, but, you need to be ready to negotiate.

 

[amitkriit]

How? Under compulsory licensing?

We will cheer for them like we cheer for all good people. May be the Bayer CEO is the next "Mother Teressa" in making, we just need to make him discover his real self.

Bayer will invest every penny into R&D and we will lend moral support from outside.

Right...Basically, you are saying that it should be governments who sets the limits on profitability under their jurisdictions.

Marx said: From each according to his ability. To each according to his needs.

Perfect. Utopia.

It is working for us. Hence no Utopia. It is real.

 

[gambit]

Its allowed under TRIPS. So there is no argument there. As for production lines, Indian pharma is growing stronger by the day. There is a strong manufacturing base.

Now, here's the deal. If its allowed under a globally signed deal like TRIPS what is Bayer crying about? You want to manufacture, apply for the license and sell it. Nobody is stopping them.

Allowed does not mean enforced. It is not that difficult to find public information on how compulsory licencing is detrimental and discouraging to development.

Appleyard Lees India's first Compulsory Licence granted for an anti-cancer drug | Appleyard Lees

We will cheer for them like we cheer for all good people. May be the Bayer CEO is the next "Mother Teressa" in making, we just need to make him discover his real self.

Bayer will invest every penny into R&D and we will lend moral support from outside.



It is working for us. Hence no Utopia. It is real.

Good luck on your cheering. You may want to discard the saris as they can be limiting to cheerleading moves.

No. I am saying, they are life saving drugs. They need to be made available to the people. There are various ways, in which they can off set costs. Like tax incentives, tax holidays for all earnings, but, you need to be ready to negotiate.

Right...So what you are saying to foreigners is: Come to India where you and your products will be under Marxism, but that is fine since you and your products are still under capitalism elsewhere.

Good luck with that sales pitch.

 

[surya kiran]

Allowed does not mean enforced. It is not that difficult to find public information on how compulsory licencing is detrimental and discouraging to development.

Appleyard Lees India's first Compulsory Licence granted for an anti-cancer drug | Appleyard Lees

There are ways to deal with it. Like I said, tax breaks, tax incentives and the rest,which will allow for profitability. But, I do not buy into the arguement that an ordinary person will need to die, because, he cannot afford a drug which is available and beyond his reach.

Allowed does not mean enforced. It is not that difficult to find public information on how compulsory licencing is detrimental and discouraging to development.

Appleyard Lees India's first Compulsory Licence granted for an anti-cancer drug | Appleyard Lees


Good luck on your cheering. You may want to discard the saris as they can be limiting to cheerleading moves.


Right...So what you are saying to foreigners is: Come to India where you and your products will be under Marxism, but that is fine since you and your products are still under capitalism elsewhere.

Good luck with that sales pitch.

It is a very simple rule. MNCs are welcome to make money. But, play by the rules defined here or you are welcome to exit.I humbly disagree with your logic that people be allowed to die, when there is a solution. Call me Marxist for this, I humbly agree.

 

[gambit]

There are ways to deal with it. Like I said, tax breaks, tax incentives and the rest,which will allow for profitability. But, I do not buy into the arguement that an ordinary person will need to die, because, he cannot afford a drug which is available and beyond his reach.

You cannot compel others to do that which they do not want to do and do it well. Foreigners may be gullible enough to be fooled once, but they will think twice the next time around. They know about TRIPS but as long as compulsory licensing is not practiced, they will enter a domestic market and invest. But once compulsory licensing is enforced, they will become suspicious of any future incentives because they will reason that if compulsory licensing was enforced, what is to prevent the government from reneging on the tax breaks?

 

[amitkriit]

You cannot compel others to do that which they do not want to do and do it well. Foreigners may be gullible enough to be fooled once, but they will think twice the next time around. They know about TRIPS but as long as compulsory licensing is not practiced, they will enter a domestic market and invest. But once compulsory licensing is enforced, they will become suspicious of any future incentives because they will reason that if compulsory licensing was enforced, what is to prevent the government from reneging on the tax breaks?

We do not want their investments over dead bodies of our people. You really want the Indian government to tell our people that it cannot let them have access to life saving drugs because that might deter foreigners from investing into our country?

 

[surya kiran]

You cannot compel others to do that which they do not want to do and do it well. Foreigners may be gullible enough to be fooled once, but they will think twice the next time around. They know about TRIPS but as long as compulsory licensing is not practiced, they will enter a domestic market and invest. But once compulsory licensing is enforced, they will become suspicious of any future incentives because they will reason that if compulsory licensing was enforced, what is to prevent the government from reneging on the tax breaks?

Look don't blame a government. This is part of WTO. They were agreed upon in the 90s. Nothing new here. Typically, its the developed countries which harp about WTO, now we are.

They dont want to invest, let them not. Like I mentioned, there are enough Indian pharma companies which have scaled up and are now investing in R&D.

 

[Kloitra]

You cannot compel others to do that which they do not want to do and do it well. Foreigners may be gullible enough to be fooled once, but they will think twice the next time around. They know about TRIPS but as long as compulsory licensing is not practiced, they will enter a domestic market and invest. But once compulsory licensing is enforced, they will become suspicious of any future incentives because they will reason that if compulsory licensing was enforced, what is to prevent the government from reneging on the tax breaks?

The issue is that a particular medicine wasn't in reach of the majority of the people.
Company was asked to lower its prices, as than the product would be affordable to the people. It didn't chose to do so.
Neither did it imported the medicine in large enough quantities. By its own admission, as the CEO said and what the company presented to the controller, India was not Bayer's market as it had no sell there.

What losses is Bayer incurring, by not being able to sell in a country where it had no market to begin with?

 

[MarkusS]

aah yes, we are aware of that...thats why we are pumping your country's marines in our courts and all you can do is bleat

please


Please do read what the actual case is. Which is what kloitra has already pointed out.

our marines work in our embassy and attend party and nightclubs. so what are you trying to say?

That is completely inhumane. Is that how you treat Human beings? You are doing to us what Hitler did to Jews.

No, we do whats best for our people. Our people come first. We test it on yours, so it is safe for ours. You said yourself, own family comes first.