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Details emerge of Chinese J-11B heavy air superiority fighter

Yes, but the J-11B is 100% completely Chinese-designed and developed. It uses 100% Chinese technologies. That's why it's considered a fully Chinese fighter and is available for export.

it won't be exported ,even though we update almost everything,but it still with SU-27's shape,we was only authorized to produce 180 SU-27,this is why we have to design J-XX by ourselves,we are already capable of that, and it will take our industry and technology to a new lever ,on one will say china "copy" fifth-generation fighter then.....
 
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Yes, but the J-11B is 100% completely Chinese-designed and developed. It uses 100% Chinese technologies. That's why it's considered a fully Chinese fighter and is available for export.

Have you ever heard of something called IPR , patent laws and copyright infringement if not than you are 100% right , whatever china produces in the defense sector is purely 100% home grown product:D
 
Have you ever heard of something called IPR , patent laws and copyright infringement if not than you are 100% right , whatever china produces in the defense sector is purely 100% home grown product:D

unfortunately ,no one will give a damn about IPR or anything else when it comes to war,it's just about survival.while our potential enemies constantly propagate "china thread",it will also push our manufacturing and technology to a new level,as an old saying goes "生于忧患 ,死于安乐"
 
Russia upset by China's imitation fighter
By ANDREI CHANG
Column: Military Might
Published: April 25, 2008

Hong Kong, China — China's production of J-11B fighters using Russian technology has become the latest bone of contention in the military cooperation between the two countries, following prolonged problems over an IL-76 transport aircraft deal.
An authoritative source from the Russian military industry says that Russia has officially notified China that the latter's production of J-11B fighters is a violation of the original agreement between the two sides. If Russia cannot get a satisfactory response from China, it reserves the right to take legal action to protect its property rights, the source said.

Many sources from the Russian military industry are upset over China's production of J-11B fighters. According to the Su-27SK Fighter Technology Transfer Agreement reached between China and Russia in 1995, Russia would supply to China first 95 then an additional 105 sets of parts to assemble Su-27 fighters. The domestic production of the Su-27SKs was to proceed with assistance from the Russian side through the transfer of technology.

The agreement explicitly outlined the specific areas of technology transfer and the corresponding schedule. In the course of assembling the planned 200 Su-27SKs, all the core component parts including the engines, radar systems and avionics equipment was to be supplied by the Russian company. Russia had already made preparations in 2004 for the delivery of 105 sets of parts for assembly and all the related equipment had been put in place.

Right from the start, the Russians noticed that China's practices were very different from those of India, with whom they were also conducting military technology transfers.

In the first place, the Chinese were very sensitive, and exhibited a strong distrust for their Russian counterparts. Russians were not allowed in the production workshops of the J-11 fighters.

Later in 2004, the Chinese abruptly notified the Russians that they no longer needed the 105 sets of Su-27 components. They complained that the fighter's radar technology was out of date. The Russians therefore upgraded 70 Su-27SKs and a small number of J-11s with RVV-AE active radar guided air-to-air missiles. The Russians proposed the same upgrade for the remaining batch of 105 sets of parts, but China did not respond.

Around the same time, a series of incidents occurred in which Chinese nationals attempted to acquire Su-27SK component parts and production blueprints through illegal means. They were caught in the Russian Far East by the Federal Anti-espionage Agency, according to one Russian source.

From 2005, China imported a number of AL-31F engines and some other parts, saying they needed them for repairs on the fighters. Soon after that, the Russians discovered that the Shenyang Aircraft Company was manufacturing a fighter called the J-11B. Though the Chinese claimed it was a newly designed aircraft, Russian experts believed the J-11B was an exact imitation of the Su-27SK. The Chinese had violated the terms of the technology transfer agreement by creating their own indigenous version of the Russian aircraft.

This is similar to what occurred with regard to the Z-10 combat helicopter China built after importing engines from Canada, claiming they were to be used for civilian helicopters.

The Russian military industry has not made clear what legal action it will take if it is convinced that China violated Russian intellectual property rights. However, a civil aviation technology analyst based in Moscow says that the J-11B incident will surely have a major impact on cooperation between China and Russia in the aviation industry.

Russia is now conducting a full assessment of the importance of the Chinese arms market to the Russian military industry. Some analysts believe that Russia is already switching its priority to other markets because of China's failure to fulfill its commitments. Under this circumstance, the likelihood that Russia will export Su-35 and Su-33 fighters to China is growing smaller. New obstacles may also interrupt the export of additional AL-31F engines and Su-27SK component parts to China.

Russia's economic recovery in the past few years means that money is no longer the only consideration in deciding where to export its military technology.

Even if Russia imposes sanctions against China over the production of the J-11B fighters, production of the aircraft is unlikely to be affected. China has already imported what it needs from Russia, including 180 AL-31F engines that will arrive later this year. Also, since beginning the J-11B production, China has reinforced its cooperation with the Ukrainian and Belarus aviation industries.

An upgrade of the Su-27SK's avionics equipment was assisted by technology from the Minsk No. 558 Factory, while the Ukrainian Migremont Factory helped China in the repair and maintenance of fuselages. A chart showing the production of the J-11B on open display at the 2006 Zhuhai Air Show revealed that already 80 percent of its parts were manufactured domestically.

A source from the Chinese aviation industry said the Shenyang Aircraft Company suffers from low production efficiency, unlike the Chengdu Aircraft Company, which has received a series of domestic awards. The Chengdu company has already manufactured 120 J-10A fighters. It had been building J-7Es until 2007, but that production line will be officially closed within this year so as to put full attention to the manufacture of additional J-10As. A second J-10A production line is expected.

The above information suggests that due to low production efficiency, the first phase production of J-11Bs is intended mainly to meet the demand of the PLA Air Force. The possibility that China will export the aircraft is very slim. This is what concerns Russia. Under the original Su-27SK production transfer agreement, the 200 J-11 fighters should not be exported to any third country. Yet Russia suspects that China's intention in suspending the J-11 production agreement ahead of time is to develop the J-11B export market independently.

--

(Andrei Chang is editor-in-chief of Kanwa Defense Review Monthly, registered in Toronto Canada.)
 
Yes, but the J-11B is 100% completely Chinese-designed and developed. It uses 100% Chinese technologies. That's why it's considered a fully Chinese fighter and is available for export.


really? then why does it look exactly like a su27?
 
really? then why does it look exactly like a su27?


Although J-11B is largely a copy of Su27 from the looks, still, there are many key differences inside (see other comparison threads). Planes are all more or less look the same. The lastest modern planes still look genereally the same as the ones from 100 yrs ago: 2 wings and several limited combinations of tails, until somone comes up with a sort of UFO alike disc design in the distant future when humans figure out new breed of techs of how to fly.

The fact that HK pop star Andy Liu looks exactly like me doesn't mean he can sing and act exactly as I do. Or just use a simple logic: what's the point for China if we just want to waste our resources and time making an exact copy of Su27, which technically is at verge of being retired anyway?
 
it won't be exported ,even though we update almost everything,but it still with SU-27's shape,we was only authorized to produce 180 SU-27,this is why we have to design J-XX by ourselves,we are already capable of that, and it will take our industry and technology to a new lever ,on one will say china "copy" fifth-generation fighter then.....

Copying is ok. Everybody does that. Zombie copying is not.
If you learned something new by all means copy.........or I guess I am telling this to the wrong set of guys (no pun intended).
 
The Engines used on the J11b is Russian, and so are many other stuff, So How can you say its 100% Indigenous? The J10 uses the Russian engines too, but the J10 is more "Indigenous" than the J11.
 
russia already got over the upset........china and russia signed a agreement last year,looks like indian is still in grief “皇帝不急太监急”

Suspicion between Russians and Chinese did not start from the ANDREI CHANG's articles. In fact this tiff over J-10/J-11 designs started because of suspicions that Russians harboured since even earlier times. I think the seeds were laid at the time of the nuke tech cooperation. After Nuke coop there have been agreements but the seeds have already been sown and there will be more suspicion in future. Perhaps the chinese know that and that is why the inordinate focus now on doing it alone. On the other hand Indians were always upfront and that resulted in Intel coop., Reactor miniaturisation, hell almost all the hardware is Russian.
 
Suspicion between Russians and Chinese did not start from the ANDREI CHANG's articles. In fact this tiff over J-10/J-11 designs started because of suspicions that Russians harboured since even earlier times. I think the seeds were laid at the time of the nuke tech cooperation. After Nuke coop there have been agreements but the seeds have already been sown and there will be more suspicion in future. Perhaps the chinese know that and that is why the inordinate focus now on doing it alone. On the other hand Indians were always upfront and that resulted in Intel coop., Reactor miniaturisation, hell almost all the hardware is Russian.

No one person or group has a monopoly on Knowledge. Nor does Knowledge have a nationality or identity. True knowledge is unbiased and you can't prevent it from spreading (only delaying). In the past China was the scientific and technical powerhouse of the world, the entire world benefited from that. Last few hundred years others became the Knowledge Powerhouse. And in the next hundred years it will be someone else - we are now witnessing it. Your envy due to your lack of capabilities is evident. Don't worry, one day India will possess the basic scientific and technological foundation to contribute to cutting-edge breakthroughs. It takes time before ones' efforts bear fruit. :smitten:
 
Have you ever heard of something called IPR , patent laws and copyright infringement if not than you are 100% right , whatever china produces in the defense sector is purely 100% home grown product:D
copyrights, and ipr are extreme capitalist ideas, and China is a socialist country, so you can take the ipr and shove it up your baty. foreign laws do NOT apply in China. deal with it.
 

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