Destroy ISI - Indian NSA Advisor

[BATMAN]

^^^You can't prove stuff like this. Just like you can't prove that the US created thepart Taliban.

Its always your word against mine.

US created Taliban? who claimed that?
US created warlords and Taliban was a forum from where a revolt was intiated by common Afgahnis against the brutal animal like warlords who denied their own people any rights.
Interesting part is that those brutal animals like warlords who were fighting with each other using poor Afghanis as their soldiers unite with each other and formed an infamous alliance of warlords 'northern alliance' which resumed its attrocities since Afghan invasion of US troops.
Isn't is this totally opposite of your perceptions!
Infect, US empowered warlords and drug barrons and helped creating another brutal, corrupt and undemocratic regime.
Their is also indian role in helping those drug barrons and warlords killing and suppresssing their own people but you tried to propogate false rumors against US which is cleared now, so I don't go down the second part.

BTW, have a look at this site:
http://www.unconfirmedsources.com/?itemid=1935

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

^^^You can't prove stuff like this. Just like you can't prove that the US created the Taliban.

Its always your word against mine.

Indeed you can't - but what can be shown is how the organization works (in general), who is running it, who has been running it etc.

From there its pretty easy to deduce whether it is even possible for the ISI to be a rogue organization.

That exercise has been conducted countless times - non of the ISI bashers on this forum have ever contradicted the arguments, and the same regurgitations keep being spewed again and again.

However, for the sake of argument, assume the ISI is dissolved and another agency created to take its place, what exactly will be different about this new agency, or even the existing ones, that will change things?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Moving posts on Narayanan's comments here:

 

[BATMAN]

Pakistan has absolutely no clue what the ISI is upto.
It hardly matters. The Indian National Security Agency (NSA) believe that it has enough evidence.

As they say 'Putup or Shutup'

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

When you start looking into the details of what Narayanan is demanding/threatening, and what it would entail to follow through on something like that, it is nothing but a threat to the State of Pakistan, or at the very least its Armed forces, both of which imply war.

The ISI is not some autonomous organization like the Revolutionary Guard of Iran - it draws its staff from all three Military wings, and they are rotated. The DG ISI is appointed by the President currently, in the past by the Prime Minister - there is no separate 'track' or 'recruitment process' or 'career' within the ISI.

So when one speaks of "destroying the ISI", it is in fact a threat to destroy the Armed Forces of Pakistan that staff it.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

In a comment that perhaps reflected the sentiments in the government, Narayanan was also quoted as saying that such acts of terror need retaliation. "I think we need to pay back in the same coin. We are quite clear in our mind," he said.

NSA confirms ISI role in Kabul attack-India-The Times of India

Let there be no doubt over what the highlighted statement means - we can quibble over whether the ISI did it or not, but there is no mistaking what the NSA adviser is advocating when he talks about "paying back in the same coin"- Terrorism against Pakistan.

"the same coin" can only mean suicide bombings and acts of violence against Pakistani interests.

 

[PakistaniPatriot]

No proof of foreign hand in Indian embassy bombing: Gates


WASHINGTON, July 10 (APP): The United States Defence Secretary Robert Gates has said he has no evidence that foreign hand was involved in this week’s bombing on Indian embassy in Kabul. His remarks refuted Afghanistan’s allegation of Pakistani involvement. “I haven’t seen any evidence or proof that foreign agents were involved,” Defence Secretary Robert Gates told a news conference when asked about the Afghan claims.

Earlier, the State Department had also declined to support Kabul’s allegations, asserting that extremists were trying to destabilise Pakistan-Afghanistan region.

Spokesman Gonzalo Gallegos said Washington is working with the Pakistani and Afghan governments to curb violent extremism.

“We believe that these extremist elements are working to destabilise, you know, this region so that they can gain from instability and any chaos that this may bring. We are working with the governments to put an end to this and try to allow the people to live in peace and in a situation where they can continue to develop themselves, their country, and become a bigger part of the world economy,” he stated.
Associated Press Of Pakistan - No proof of foreign hand in Indian embassy bombing: Gates


oh and there are several websites displaying this news. Its not just one site. One question. Why can't Indian intelligence agencies take blame for their on mistakes. I mean its not the first time that India has blamed ISI for such acts. Just because RAW and their sources aren't good enough to prevent such attacks doesn't mean they blame it on someone.
RAW just can't face the truth.

WHY

 

[Vinod2070]

NSA confirms ISI role in Kabul attack-India-The Times of India

Let there be no doubt over what the highlighted statement means - we can quibble over whether the ISI did it or not, but there is no mistaking what the NSA adviser is advocating when he talks about "paying back in the same coin"- Terrorism against Pakistan.

"the same coin" can only mean suicide bombings and acts of violence against Pakistani interests.

Yes, The highlighted statement means that such acts will not go unpunished. Sadly, that may be the only language that will be understood by some.

I would believe he has solid reasons to say what he said. He obviously has access to much better information than most people on this forum. To say that he is just indulging in conjecture would not be correct. As earlier mentioned, he is not one to mouth loose words.

 

[Flintlock]

NSA confirms ISI role in Kabul attack-India-The Times of India

Let there be no doubt over what the highlighted statement means - we can quibble over whether the ISI did it or not, but there is no mistaking what the NSA adviser is advocating when he talks about "paying back in the same coin"- Terrorism against Pakistan.

"the same coin" can only mean suicide bombings and acts of violence against Pakistani interests.

Nonsense, no state will openly say that it plans to carry out terror attacks, even if it does do it.

Read the full text. He says that for now, India is going to retain her policy with Pakistan (and hence ISI). However, in the light of these bombings, it is being reviewed.

The result will probably be a sustained effort on India's part to dismantle the ISI.

 

[Cheetah786]

NEW DELHI, July 12: India’s top security official claimed to have evidence on Saturday of the involvement of ISI in the recent suicide attack on Delhi’s embassy in Kabul and said time had come to destroy the spy agency.

“We not only suspect but we have a fair amount of intelligence,” India’s National Security Adviser M.K. Narayanan told television channels.

He was commenting on speculation about Pakistan’s involvement in the devastating attack on Monday.

“The ISI needs to be destroyed. We made this point, whenever we have had a chance, to interlocutors across the world... There might have been some tactical restraint for some time, obviously that restraint is no longer present,” he said.

“We have no doubt that the ISI is behind this(i love these statements no doubt but have no proof either). We are in the favour of the peace process, but the ISI is not in any way part of it. The ISI is playing evil. The ISI needs to be destroyed,” Mr Narayanan said. Explaining India’s stand on the talks with Pakistan, he said: “The peace process is being initiated by the prime minister and is even predated. It went on and then there was a hiccup towards the end of 2006. Since 2007, it has not picked up. However, we have not slowed it down. We hope that the new administration (in Pakistan) will take it up again.”

India this week called off scheduled talks between the two sides in Islamabad, saying the official who was to head them was away in Kabul to attend to the emergency there.


As a Pakistani i have proof that Indian army is involved in Kashmir and its time it should be destroyed as its making peace with India impossible.

India’s National Security Adviser M.K. Narayanan

How did this get this job?

 

[dr.umer]

NEW DELHI, July 12: India’s top security official claimed to have evidence on Saturday of the involvement of ISI in the recent suicide attack on Delhi’s embassy in Kabul and said time had come to destroy the spy agency. Indian top security officials always make such claims but they have very poor record of bringing up the evidence.If they have why they don't show it?

“We not only suspect but we have a fair amount of intelligence,” India’s National Security Adviser M.K. Narayanan told television channels. (Where was your intelligence before the attack. Probably arming Uzbik,Tajik & Afghan Militants to destabilize FATA)

He was commenting on speculation about Pakistan’s involvement in the devastating attack on Monday.

“The ISI needs to be destroyed. We made this point, whenever we have had a chance, to interlocutors across the world... There might have been some tactical restraint for some time, obviously that restraint is no longer present,” he said.

“We have no doubt that the ISI is behind this(i love these statements no doubt but have no proof either). We are in the favour of the peace process, but the ISI is not in any way part of it. The ISI is playing evil. The ISI needs to be destroyed,” Mr Narayanan said. Explaining India’s stand on the talks with Pakistan, he said: “The peace process is being initiated by the prime minister and is even predated. It went on and then there was a hiccup towards the end of 2006. Since 2007, it has not picked up. However, we have not slowed it down. We hope that the new administration (in Pakistan) will take it up again.”

India this week called off scheduled talks between the two sides in Islamabad, saying the official who was to head them was away in Kabul to attend to the emergency there.


As a Pakistani i have proof that Indian army is involved in Kashmir and its time it should be destroyed as its making peace with India impossible.

How did this get this job?[/QUOTE(Like Lalu Parsad did)

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I would believe he has solid reasons to say what he said. He obviously has access to much better information than most people on this forum. To say that he is just indulging in conjecture would not be correct. As earlier mentioned, he is not one to mouth loose words.

The entity with the largest and most advanced intelligence gathering apparatus, one whose troops and civilians (contractors) are directly in the line of fire, and have been for far longer than India's, the US, has categorically denied that Pakistan was involved.

Between the US and India, I'll go with the US for the moment. So spare me the "India has evidence" - it is the same BS that has continued to be spewed all these years to put pressure on Pakistan for stopping support for the independence movement in Kashmir.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Nonsense, no state will openly say that it plans to carry out terror attacks, even if it does do it.

Read the full text. He says that for now, India is going to retain her policy with Pakistan (and hence ISI). However, in the light of these bombings, it is being reviewed.

The result will probably be a sustained effort on India's part to dismantle the ISI.

Narayanan essentially said just that when he talked about "same coin".

Whether it is now or later doesn't matter - he is advocating 'terrorism' to counter alleged Pakistani involvement, which has been denied by the US.

 

[Vinod2070]

The entity with the largest and most advanced intelligence gathering apparatus, one whose troops and civilians (contractors) are directly in the line of fire, and have been for far longer than India's, the US, has categorically denied that Pakistan was involved.

Between the US and India, I'll go with the US for the moment. So spare me the "India has evidence" - it is the same BS that has continued to be spewed all these years to put pressure on Pakistan for stopping support for the independence movement in Kashmir.

If by evidence you mean a smoking gun, obviously it is never there in these types of attacks. Even if there is one, it would be denied as manufactured. e.g. Reports of Dawood Ibrahim keep appearing in Indian and Pakistan media and even addresses are published but is never acknowledged by Pakistan. Next you hear is the marriage of Jawed Miandad's son openly!

Mostly you have to go by who would be most interested in and capable of carrying out such attacks. Circumstantial evidence do point in a certain direction. It is up to people to close their eyes or not. Of course most of us are not privy to confidential intelligence.

USA may have it's own reasons to say what it said. To assume that they don't have their own agenda here would be incorrect. They need Pakistan's co-operation and would say what they need to.

They keep saying so many things about "do more". You don't believe all of that.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

If by evidence you mean a smoking gun, obviously it is never there in these types of attacks. Even if there is one, it would be denied as manufactured. e.g. Reports of Dawood Ibrahim keep appearing in Indian and Pakistan media and even addresses are published but is never acknowledged by Pakistan. Next you hear is the marriage of Jawed Miandad's son openly!

Mostly you have to go by who would be most interested in and capable of carrying out such attacks. Circumstantial evidence do point in a certain direction. It is up to people to close their eyes or not. Of course most of us are not privy to confidential intelligence.

USA may have it's own reasons to say what it said. To assume that they don't have their own agenda here would be incorrect. They need Pakistan's co-operation and would say what they need to.

They keep saying so many things about "do more". You don't believe all of that.

The US never held back on exposing Khans nuclear proliferation, one thing they will not stand for is institutional support for terrorism and the Taliban, especially when it puts the lives of their troops and civilians on the line.

As far as rogue elements supporting the Taliban is concerned, that is something the US has expressed concerns over, as well as some parts of the FC supporting the Taliban, and Musharraf himself acknowledged that - but that is different from what is being implied here.

In fact, the US would have every reason to confront Pakistan with evidence of of institutional support for terrorism, since it would then be able to bring about a tremendous amount of pressure on Pakistan to get it to take more military action in Pakistan.

What can be seen in terms of 'motive' is that Pakistan does not stand to gain anything from bombing an embassy, this argument has been IMO debunked thoroughly in the bombing thread - if such flimsy motives of destabilization are what you want to buy, then the motive applies equally in the case of the Lal Masjid attack on the police as well, indicating Indian culpability - for which no Taliban group claimed responsibility.