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Despite Missile Integration, Nuke Role Unlikely for Pakistan’s JF-17 ?

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ISLAMABAD — Pakistan is integrating its nuclear-capable Hatf VII/Vengeance VII Ra’ad air launched cruise missile onto its JF-17 Thunder aircraft, but analysts are unsure if this signifies a nuclear deterrence role for the aircraft.

Air Commodore Khalid Mahmood at the JF-17 Project Management Office said integration work was ongoing with Chinese and Pakistani weapons, and that “most weapons have been integrated”.

“Ra’ad and the H-4 [glide bomb] will be for the Block I and Block II” aircraft currently in or about to enter service, not just the forthcoming Block III variant, he said.

Former Air Force pilot and analyst Kaiser Tufail said, “It makes good sense to get on with the wiring as well as flight trials of these weapons on the JF-17 at this stage. For one thing, all subsequent production aircraft would have the mod integrated from the outset and there will be no need for retrofits that also result in long down times at the flight lines. Secondly, the whole process is lengthy and it was about time we started it.”

He added, “Possibly, by the time the mods are in place on the JF-17, the first of the older Mirages would be retiring.”

The Mirage III carries the Ra’ad and is the delivery platform for Pakistan’s airborne arm of its nuclear deterrent. Its avionics were upgraded in the 1990s under the Retrofit Of Strike Element (ROSE) program.

They have been in service for many years, however, and are approaching the end of their useful lives.

Most recent major military developments have aimed to strengthen the nuclear deterrent, such as the unveiling of the Hatf IX/Nasr battlefield ballistic missile and the submarine-launched variant of the Babur cruise missile.

However, analysts are uncertain if the airborne arm of the nuclear triad is set to be similarly strengthened with the introduction of the JF-17 in this role.

Tufail said the Ra’ad’s integration onto the JF-17 would be very beneficial.

“It would certainly add to PAF’s [Pakistan Air Force’s] stealthy ingress capability [due to low cross-section of the cruise missile], considering that the parent aircraft do not have it,” he said.

However, Mansoor Ahmed, from Quaid-e-Azam University’s Department of Defence and Strategic Studies, and who specializes in Pakistan’s national deterrent and delivery program, is unconvinced that replacement of the Mirages with the JF-17 is imminent.

“The Mirage is a tested and well-integrated platform, it would take some time to have the Thunder in large numbers to do the job”, he said.

“Secondly, how good are the Thunder’s ground attack/avionics capabilities compared to the ROSE Mirages?”

Tufail, who flew the Mirage operationally, does not see the Ra’ad-capable Mirages as “less credible as a nuclear deterrent in any way.”

“However, the JF-17 would certainly be a better and more modern platform, about which there should be no debate. As and when the JF-17s attain full operational capability with the Ra’ad, that role will be withdrawn from the Mirages, but that is not to mean that the Mirages would be retired — they do a lot more than just carry Ra’ads,” he said.

“The Mirages would be retired as they outlive their airframe hours or run out of spares support, which I see starting to happen over the next five years or so.”

Depending on the material state of the Mirage aircraft, Ahmed said they should give the PAF enough time to bring the Block III variant of the JF-17 into service, which is to have an improved avionics suite.

Mahmood said the avionics suite of the Block III variant is not yet finalized as the PAF is “looking for something to give more operational capability, and still examining avionics options.”

A perennial issue for the JF-17 has been the question of the continued availability of its powerplant. Currently, it is powered by a Russian Klimov RD-93.

It has been speculated for some time that the JF-17 will eventually be powered by a Chinese engine, a possible thrust vector control (TVC) variant of the Guizhou WS-13 Taishan.

Mahmood, however, would only say that the engine “depends on customers,” and that “we have options with regards to engines; we’re not restricted.”

Tufail is unconvinced a TVC variant is a necessity at present.

“Personally, I don’t see the JF-17 as a ‘do-all’ fighter, and I feel that it needs other areas to be looked at for modifications, rather than just follow fads,” he said.

“TVC helps in air combat maneuvering, whose days are numbered, if one goes by the technological developments underway. If that be true, it would make much more sense to focus on enhancing BVR [beyond visual range] capabilities, including radar and weapons, which need to be constantly upgraded during the life of an aircraft.”

The JF-17 is only rated to plus 8g, and for this reason Tufail said “the JF-17 cannot fully exploit the TVC potential, which a 9g aircraft can do far better.”

Analyst Usman Shabbir of the Pakistan Military Consortium think tank said the JF-17 airframe “can certainly handle more than +8g, but the restriction is in place to increase the airframe life.”

He said this “may be increased in later variants where more composites are used to increase airframe strength and reduce the overall weight.”

Despite Missile Integration, Nuke Role Unlikely for Pakistan’s JF-17 | Defense News | defensenews.com
 
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H khan reported this 2-3 weeks before

Good news indeed
 
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Curious headline - I did not get that from the article, perhaps I'm confused:

The Mirage is a tested and well-integrated platform, it would take some time to have the Thunder in large numbers to do the job”, he said.

“Secondly, how good are the Thunder’s ground attack/avionics capabilities compared to the ROSE Mirages?”

Huh?? A bit late in the game to come to this isn't it?? Such a curious remark, especially to the press.

Tufail, who flew the Mirage operationally, does not see the Ra’ad-capable Mirages as “less credible as a nuclear deterrent in any way.”

“However, the JF-17 would certainly be a better and more modern platform, about which there should be no debate. As and when the JF-17s attain full operational capability with the Ra’ad, that role will be withdrawn from the Mirages, but that is not to mean that the Mirages would be retired — they do a lot more than just carry Ra’ads,

I don't know what to make of it
 
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How exactly is it unlikely?? Ra'ad ALCM's primary role is nuclear.
However it will be verified only after flight trials.
 
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Most recent major military developments have aimed to strengthen the nuclear deterrent, such as the unveiling of the Hatf IX/Nasr battlefield ballistic missile and the submarine-launched variant of the Babur cruise missile.

Is this an official confirmation ?????
 
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Confusing indeed, the vital part is the missile integration, once it is done, it does not matter whether Raad carries a conventional warhead or nuclear. Author is creating fuss for nothing
 
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The author of this article is terminally confused.
what a waste of time this article was

this is what happens when people copy paste bits of other articles without knowing jack about the subject and simple comprehension of the language. double negation, irrelevant comparison and examples and then talking about something entirely different

TVC , 9 G , not being able to deliver nuclear payload... since its not a "do all aircraft.." (not a multirole) so.....it should look into other areas (other roles a plural meaning multiple)
 
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Most of the statements in the article get negated in the very next para by the author ;

''
mirage is an old platform , its airframe is very old -- can jf-17 , a modern platform undertake that role or not....? Raad is a cruise missile capable of delivering nuclear and conventional systems to enemy...raad is being integrated with jft.. would jf-17 with raad be used in nuclear deterrence role or not? Will the modern 4rth generation multirole jf-17 with precision guided weapons h2/h4 be a good ground attack fighter in comparison to the fading mirages? ''

As the think tank is himself asking about the capabilities of rose upgradation and jf-17 specs, the readers would get even more confused than the auther himself!
 
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Well if its integrated it means , if we decide to use it as Nuke platform ... lol it will happen
 
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Whoever wrote that article is a retard. Also, Kaiser sahib's statements are conflicting, considering that Mirages are old platform, and they desperately need to be retired. Plus JF-17 carries much better avionics than these Mirages, whether ROSE or not.
 
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Whoever wrote that article is a retard. Also, Kaiser sahib's statements are conflicting, considering that Mirages are old platform, and they desperately need to be retired. Plus JF-17 carries much better avionics than these Mirages, whether ROSE or not.

Go ahead and read it again, Kaiser Tufail's statements are not conflicting in any way!
he said Jf-17's integration with Ra'ad is "beneficial" for PAF.
the only thing he questioned was whether thunder's ground capabilities are good enough..
And that's a very fair question, considering none of the block 1 are capable of carrying precision guided bombs.
 
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Go ahead and read it again, Kaiser Tufail's statements are not conflicting in any way!
he said Jf-17's integration with Ra'ad is "beneficial" for PAF.
the only thing he questioned was whether thunder's ground capabilities are good enough..
And that's a very fair question, considering none of the block 1 are capable of carrying precision guided bombs.

JF-17's ground capabilities even if not there, would have to evolve. How long can Mirage III/V continue to fly with stressed out airframes, and outdated avionics?

What survival chances does Mirages have, say if they go to drop a Ra'ad in the battlefield? So in anycase, JF-17 will have to take up the slack as all Mirages would be eventually retired.

It makes more sense to integrate cruise missiles and other guided weapons on JF-17s than the Mirages.
 
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