Desert Storm Air Warriors

[500]

500, you must remember and acknowledge that when the F-16 is loaded with iron bombs, things like range, G-available, all change dramatically. It was obvious to the naked eye in Red Flag exercises, where we'd see heavily loaded F-16's on a bombing mission staggering along, tapping burner just to keep the speed up to 420 knots. Any aircraft becomes a pig when loaded like that.

But in case of enemy fighter danger you can drop bombs and tanks and start maneviering (thats why undropable 600 gallon tanks are not used in combat missions). Also enemy fighters can attack you on the way back.

 

[Chogy]

Sure, you can jettison all your external stores and go kick some ***, but you have then ignored your primary mission of interdiction. Those 8-ship bomb trains have a job to do.

When doing point defense, if you can force the strikers to jettison their bombs, you have won. You did your job.

 

[500]

But Tornado, unlike the F-16, even after jetissoning external stores remains a proorly maneuvering aircraft.

 

[SQ8]

But Tornado, unlike the F-16, even after jetissoning external stores remains a proorly maneuvering aircraft.

Which gives it less of a chance of making it out of dodge unscathed... although its low alt performance is fairly good.

 

[Zabaniyah]

Which gives it less of a chance of making it out of dodge unscathed... although its low alt performance is fairly good.

If I am not mistaken, the Tornado is mainly intended to carry out bombing runs at high speeds and low altitudes.

 

[Chogy]

The tornado IS less maneuverable than the F-16. But it is also much faster than the F-16, especially low altitude.

Through jet aviation history, there have been a series of airplanes that are phenominal low-altitude performers in terms of speed. The F-105 in Vietnam was one. So are the F/B-111, the MiG-23/27, and the Tornado. Any of these can walk away from a high-lift aircraft like an F-16. And at low altitudes, missile envelopes shrink dramatically. In a 700 knot tail chase, the AIM-9 is useless, and a missile that might go 20 miles at 40,000' will shrink to 3 or 4 miles at sea level.

 

[Zabaniyah]

mmm...variable sweep wings ftw!

I have some questions.

Is it true that the Tornado borrowed some elements from the Tomcat? Does that mean the Tomcat is less maneuverable than the F-16 or the more comparable F-15?

What were the advantages of fighters having variable sweep wings? More speed?

And we aren't seeing this in the latest aircraft designs.

 

[500]

The tornado IS less maneuverable than the F-16. But it is also much faster than the F-16, especially low altitude.

Through jet aviation history, there have been a series of airplanes that are phenominal low-altitude performers in terms of speed. The F-105 in Vietnam was one. So are the F/B-111, the MiG-23/27, and the Tornado. Any of these can walk away from a high-lift aircraft like an F-16. And at low altitudes, missile envelopes shrink dramatically. In a 700 knot tail chase, the AIM-9 is useless, and a missile that might go 20 miles at 40,000' will shrink to 3 or 4 miles at sea level.

I dont think that Tornado is MUCH faster. F-16 is very fast aircraft too (unlike F-18 for example). Also even Tornado wont run away from enemy fighter wich will chase it from above.

mmm...variable sweep wings ftw!

I have some questions.

Is it true that the Tornado borrowed some elements from the Tomcat? Does that mean the Tomcat is less maneuverable than the F-16 or the more comparable F-15?

What were the advantages of fighters having variable sweep wings? More speed?

And we aren't seeing this in the latest aircraft designs.

Variable wings combine high speed (important for interceptors) with good take off landing capabilities (especially important for aircraft carrier based planes). Thats why for F-14 swept wing was very good choice.

The downside of variable sweep wings is that they are more heavy (reduces thrust/weight ratio) and have lower g-limit (7.5 g compare to 9 g for unvariable). So surelly F-14 is less maneuverable than F-15 and F-16 (except very low speeds, where F-14 can win thanks to open wings, but low speeds are not used in combats).