Depopulate Kashmir, send Kashmiris to refugee camps in Tamil Nadu: Subramanian Swamy

[Vishwabalas]

With the current political atmosphere all over the world, watch for India to start ethnic cleansing. Kashmir is a highly possible first location. But it will not be the last.

Have I told you how much I admire the chinese strategy in Tibet ? .............. did I mention your admirable strategy in Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region ?

Chinese are the world leaders in Social engineering. .......... Big Fan

 

[salarsikander]

You are partially correct in your understanding. However, that is not the complete picture.

Firstly - there is no doubt that the Indian government has a poor record in socio-economic development. Not just Kashmir, but also the North-East bear testimony to that fact. So no argument on that.

However, it is also true that the Indian government has invested more per capita in J&K than in any other Indian state. Graft and corruption have ensured that nothing good came of it. Whether it is the Abdullahs or the Saeeds, they play the same game and the result is for all to see.

And finally, we must also understand the agenda of the Separatists. They are scared that if Kashmiris end up going about their lives like people everywhere else, then the entire "issue" will be forgotten. So they try to make sure that students do not appear for exams and tourists avoid the valley. This in turn will result in the feedback loop wherein desperate citizenry out of options will lash out at the government which they feel has failed them, thereby achieving the Separatists' goal.

This game has been played a over the world, from the US to Iraq. As educated and informed people it is our responsibility not to fall for it and to understand all aspects of the issue. Governance can only succeed in that situation, otherwise it fails everywhere.

The fact that Indian govt has poor record is the mother of all evils.

Kashmir is not something like North East for that matter, is it ? You must know it is inhabited by the proud muslims, who will not just give up fighting for their rights until they have had one.

I say this always and I wil it again. There is nothing, nothing that Pakistan provide to those Kashmiris that India cant,

Say, if we do any developmental work in that region, India can match it with 10 times more money and development. So all this nonsense of Kashmir getting integrated into PAkistan is nothing but just to piss-off Indian by waving PAkistani flag,. In reality every kashmiri knows that PAkistan cannot provide for them. Either give them their right or give them independence. The latter is quite hard and the former is far more easier. But Trust me Indians will never do that. Never.

Secondly, Why do you think fake Insurgency in Baluchistn is failing ? Because, after Cpec Their concerns are being looked after of not giving the province their rights and what not. Every other day you hear news that XYZ group is laying down its weapon. Why ? because everyone is realising there that these fake bughtis have done nothing and now State of PAkistan is damn serious about developing the most-neglected province. Which means work for everybody.

YOu indians have this obsession of taking credits for things which never belonged or were done by you. Shamelessly singlehandedly taking all the credit for creation Bdesh, While ignoring the Due credit to Infamous Arsehole known as Bhutto.
The person who engineered the breakup of East PAk, by denying them their due right. India just took the advantage of opportunity. The whole thing was sustained and created by ZAB. If it were not for his ego the independence would have been smooth. He denied them their right ( also the West Pakistan as whole) This is exactly what you guys are doing in Kashmir.

Lastly, youre just playing the rules of separatist and actually increasing more hatred, even the ones who dont want to raise arms against the Indian state in Kashmir would willingly pick when you kill them and force them into subjugation rather than providing them with jobs and development. Which is their right.
Trust me I am the last person to see Indian muslims blood being spilled. ( Though I have sympathy for everyone as general rule). But since they're muslims I will have more preference to them, when it comes to killing and subjugating them/

So it is upto you Indian to decide if you really want to keep Kashmir by providing them with schools, jobs, medical facilities, or just letting the money go down the corruption ( knowingly it well) or to keep on killing them and forcing them in to subjugation and also incurring more suicides in CPRF after kashmir operations.

I trust sanity will prevail

 

[Tom M]

I could say Submarine Swamy is a an idiot but this idiot has a lot of fan boys in India, including its government.

And The Harvard University, Massachusetts as well. He was a Professor there.

 

[faithfulguy]

Have I told you how much I admire the chinese strategy in Tibet ? .............. did I mention your admirable strategy in Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region ?

Chinese are the world leaders in Social engineering. .......... Big Fan

As the GDP per capita of Tibet is higher than that of Bombay or Dehli and even Goa, than I guess you can call that social engineer. Tibet is one of the most poor area in China but its wealthier than the richest cities in India.....

Still a fan?

And The Harvard University, Massachusetts as well. He was a Professor there.

He must be the ethnic cleansing professor.

 

[EndangeredSpecies]

And The Harvard University, Massachusetts as well. He was a Professor there.

Leave them. Their only internationally renowned academic got even his grave defiled. Such is their respect for knowledge.

As the GDP per capita of Tibet is higher than that of Bombay or Dehli and even Goa, than I guess you can call that social engineer. Tibet is one of the most poor area in China but its wealthier than the richest cities in India.....

Still a fan?

Wrong, Delhi has GDP PPP per capita of 12200. Tibet is somewhere in 9000. Actually Delhi will be above 15 or 16 of Chinese administrative divisions. And yes I am a fan of Chinese social engineering as it seems to work even on Taiwanese.

He must be the ethnic cleansing professor.

He learnt his lesson well from CPC.

 

[Tom M]

Leave them. Their only internationally renowned academic got even his grave defiled. Such is their respect for knowledge.


Wrong, Delhi has GDP PPP per capita of 12200. Tibet is somewhere in 9000. Actually Delhi will be above 15 or 16 of Chinese administrative divisions. And yes I am a fan of Chinese social engineering as it seems to work even on Taiwanese.


He learnt his lesson well from CPC.

Dude, ignore the false flagger. Let him be happy with his brags, while deep inside he very well know the pathetic state of affairs of his actual country. LOL

 

[faithfulguy]

Leave them. Their only internationally renowned academic got even his grave defiled. Such is their respect for knowledge.


Wrong, Delhi has GDP PPP per capita of 12200. Tibet is somewhere in 9000. Actually Delhi will be above 15 or 16 of Chinese administrative divisions. And yes I am a fan of Chinese social engineering as it seems to work even on Taiwanese.


He learnt his lesson well from CPC.

GDP per capita for PPP does not taking into account the cost of living per administrative area for China or India. It only consider national average cost of living. So it's inaccurate. In nominal terms, Dehli per capita income is below that of Tibet. Sad

 

[Chhatrapati]

He must write a book. These are hilarious ideas. Some kinda syndrome.

 

[Jacob Martin]

The fact that Indian govt has poor record is the mother of all evils.

Kashmir is not something like North East for that matter, is it ? You must know it is inhabited by the proud muslims, who will not just give up fighting for their rights until they have had one.

I say this always and I wil it again. There is nothing, nothing that Pakistan provide to those Kashmiris that India cant,

Say, if we do any developmental work in that region, India can match it with 10 times more money and development. So all this nonsense of Kashmir getting integrated into PAkistan is nothing but just to piss-off Indian by waving PAkistani flag,. In reality every kashmiri knows that PAkistan cannot provide for them. Either give them their right or give them independence. The latter is quite hard and the former is far more easier. But Trust me Indians will never do that. Never.

Secondly, Why do you think fake Insurgency in Baluchistn is failing ? Because, after Cpec Their concerns are being looked after of not giving the province their rights and what not. Every other day you hear news that XYZ group is laying down its weapon. Why ? because everyone is realising there that these fake bughtis have done nothing and now State of PAkistan is damn serious about developing the most-neglected province. Which means work for everybody.

YOu indians have this obsession of taking credits for things which never belonged or were done by you. Shamelessly singlehandedly taking all the credit for creation Bdesh, While ignoring the Due credit to Infamous Arsehole known as Bhutto.
The person who engineered the breakup of East PAk, by denying them their due right. India just took the advantage of opportunity. The whole thing was sustained and created by ZAB. If it were not for his ego the independence would have been smooth. He denied them their right ( also the West Pakistan as whole) This is exactly what you guys are doing in Kashmir.

Lastly, youre just playing the rules of separatist and actually increasing more hatred, even the ones who dont want to raise arms against the Indian state in Kashmir would willingly pick when you kill them and force them into subjugation rather than providing them with jobs and development. Which is their right.
Trust me I am the last person to see Indian muslims blood being spilled. ( Though I have sympathy for everyone as general rule). But since they're muslims I will have more preference to them, when it comes to killing and subjugating them/

So it is upto you Indian to decide if you really want to keep Kashmir by providing them with schools, jobs, medical facilities, or just letting the money go down the corruption ( knowingly it well) or to keep on killing them and forcing them in to subjugation and also incurring more suicides in CPRF after kashmir operations.

I trust sanity will prevail

I understand that you speak without malice. Unfortunately, things have gone out of the hands of sensible people.

The Valley has now become trapped in a vicious, self-reinforcing cycle. The Indian government and elected leaders in J&K want one kind of status quo. The separatists want status quo of another kind. I hope you are old enough to realize one basic truth about life in South Asia - person power, greed and self-aggrandizement are the only motives left in any form of political organization in our lives. The founding fathers of both nations had warned against this possibility, and here we are.

The ineptitude and occasional brutality of the Indian government is very public in nature. I don't see any point in disputing that. But such a complex problem has many dimensions. You cannot discount the insidious role played by elements who use death for their own agenda. Instigating youth towards violence, and then sitting back and watching the fun. Sadly, it is the lives of Kashmiris and Indian soldiers that is the price for their ambitions. Each dead or injured Kashmiri means nothing more to them than an emotional card to be played.

Although I am not sure the Indian government will ever be able to implement the development agenda that you mentioned in a proper manner. For that to happen, India will have to change as a nation. But there is also something for you to understand about the issue - it has now gone beyond fairness and sanity. Do not underestimate the vicious intent of those who are leading the separatists - both soft and violent ones. If there is no despair in the Valley, where will they get followers from? Any attempts at bringing normalcy will be met with resistance.

For example, few years back after a long time tourists started returning to the valley. Immediately the separatists saw trouble and within no time the valley was burning once again, thereby driving the tourists away. Last year, a mob burned down the valley's first high-density orchard because it happened to be near the site where Burhan Wani was killed. The orchard belonged to a local entrepreneur. Just in the immediate aftermath of the Wani encounter, 26 schools were burnt down.

Now you may either see it as a helpless people venting their frustrations, or rather as it actually is - that they are pawns in someone else's game. The things that can bring normalcy back to their lives are deliberately targeted - education, tourism, enterprise. This will build up the grievances which will further provide the ammunition for the movement to continue, never discount the efficacy of long term planning.

I know you are right when you say the Indian government has handled it badly. Now the issue has become more of a chicken-and-egg story, whether the separatists' intent to cultivate and use the misery of Kashmiris for their purpose came first or the Indian government's stupidity. But really, what's the point? Isn't it true that both will have to change for situation to improve?

I am not expecting you to curtail your sympathy for Kashmiris. That is your rightful prerogative. All I expect is that you see the complete picture and don't think that the people leading this movement are innocent victims - like many Machiavellian "leaders" before them, they are using the suffering of others for their own purposes, and have every motive to want it to continue.

 

[EndangeredSpecies]

GDP per capita for PPP does not taking into account the cost of living per administrative area for China or India. It only consider national average cost of living. So it's inaccurate. In nominal terms, Dehli per capita income is below that of Tibet. Sad

You know what does GDP pre Capita PPP measure? It measure the value of goods and services produced adjusted to purchasing power parity. So you are indeed wrong. It is actually the other way round. GDP per Capita PPP is actually taking into account cost of living. GDP nominal only considers the nominal value expressed in US dollars of goods and services produced. 'Nominal' mean in-name more like what is written on the label, coverted to USD. Hence PPP is a better choice when you are comparing two economies.

Consider this, it costs INR 150 to get a hair cut in Delhi and CNY 111 in Beijing. In USD it will be have nominal GDP contribution of $ 2.4 in Delhi and $ 16.25 in Beijing. Real people in Delhi and Beijing produce and consume real goods and services not dollars and that is what is GDP the intends to measure. So, nominal value of hair cut seems higher in Beijing compared to Delhi, if you want to compare the size of economy, ie the sum total of goods and services produced in both of the places you will have to adjust to purchasing power parity because after all a haircut is a haircut, no matter done in Delhi or Beijing.

Only times nominal GDP actually matters is when you are having cashflows between two different currencies. Most of the economic activity in Delhi and Tibet is within same currency, INR and CNY. You may want to read about GDP and GDP PPP on IMF's website.

Hence, GDP PPP per capita of Delhi is much higher than Tibet. Infact it is much higher than about 14 of Chinese administrative provinces. GDP nominal is misleading in comparing two economies.

 

[EndangeredSpecies]

I understand that you speak without malice. Unfortunately, things have gone out of the hands of sensible people.

The Valley has now become trapped in a vicious, self-reinforcing cycle. The Indian government and elected leaders in J&K want one kind of status quo. The separatists want status quo of another kind. I hope you are old enough to realize one basic truth about life in South Asia - person power, greed and self-aggrandizement are the only motives left in any form of political organization in our lives. The founding fathers of both nations had warned against this possibility, and here we are.

The ineptitude and occasional brutality of the Indian government is very public in nature. I don't see any point in disputing that. But such a complex problem has many dimensions. You cannot discount the insidious role played by elements who use death for their own agenda. Instigating youth towards violence, and then sitting back and watching the fun. Sadly, it is the lives of Kashmiris and Indian soldiers that is the price for their ambitions. Each dead or injured Kashmiri means nothing more to them than an emotional card to be played.

Although I am not sure the Indian government will ever be able to implement the development agenda that you mentioned in a proper manner. For that to happen, India will have to change as a nation. But there is also something for you to understand about the issue - it has now gone beyond fairness and sanity. Do not underestimate the vicious intent of those who are leading the separatists - both soft and violent ones. If there is no despair in the Valley, where will they get followers from? Any attempts at bringing normalcy will be met with resistance.

For example, few years back after a long time tourists started returning to the valley. Immediately the separatists saw trouble and within no time the valley was burning once again, thereby driving the tourists away. Last year, a mob burned down the valley's first high-density orchard because it happened to be near the site where Burhan Wani was killed. The orchard belonged to a local entrepreneur. Just in the immediate aftermath of the Wani encounter, 26 schools were burnt down.

Now you may either see it as a helpless people venting their frustrations, or rather as it actually is - that they are pawns in someone else's game. The things that can bring normalcy back to their lives are deliberately targeted - education, tourism, enterprise. This will build up the grievances which will further provide the ammunition for the movement to continue, never discount the efficacy of long term planning.

I know you are right when you say the Indian government has handled it badly. Now the issue has become more of a chicken-and-egg story, whether the separatists' intent to cultivate and use the misery of Kashmiris for their purpose came first or the Indian government's stupidity. But really, what's the point? Isn't it true that both will have to change for situation to improve?

I am not expecting you to curtail your sympathy for Kashmiris. That is your rightful prerogative. All I expect is that you see the complete picture and don't think that the people leading this movement are innocent victims - like many Machiavellian "leaders" before them, they are using the suffering of others for their own purposes, and have every motive to want it to continue.

Honestly, spreading these Kashmiris thinly all over India is the key to the solution of this mess. These folks fear and hate Indian army, are mostly unemployed, most of their kids have broken education and often they have to live without basic amenities of life for extended period of time. Best will be to move them somewhere they are away from army, can be gainfully employed, get education to their kids and live a decent life. You will be surprised how many people will take this over any vague notion of Aazadi. To see the evidence, just look at any recruitment drive of Indian military in Kashmir. The number of youths show up there is huge.

 

[Jacob Martin]

Honestly, spreading these Kashmiris thinly all over India is the key to the solution of this mess. These folks fear and hate Indian army, are mostly unemployed, most of their kids have broken education and often they have to live without basic amenities of life for extended period of time. Best will be to move them somewhere they are away from army, can be gainfully employed, get education to their kids and live a decent life. You will be surprised how many people will take this over any vague notion of Aazadi. To see the evidence, just look at any recruitment drive of Indian military in Kashmir. The number of youths show up there is huge.

I have full sympathy for the Kashmiri people. But we need to be able to splice the issue - the separatist leaders and Kashmiri people are not the same, and neither do they have the same interests. Unfortunately the situation has now become more complex than ever. You may be right about a majority of Kashmiris, but now Salafi/Wahabbi ideology has also found a home their, unlike earlier. This is not an easy problem to deal with - it is like a pathogen that creates a more favorable environment for itself.

Both the central government and the idiotic state government slept while this radicalization was taking place. Now we are faced with a situation where one cannot reason with a large section of Kashmiri youth. So we have a potent combination of those with genuine suffering and those whose grievances are self-imposed, but to them it seems the same.

I think greater integration will help. They should be encouraged to settle in other cities, maybe have a program whereby Kashmiri youth are offered free education in good universities so that they feel motivated. That is definitely part of the solution but not the whole.

As for reasoning with those who now see it as a religious issue, I have no idea how to engage with them. India's secular credentials will not impress them, partly because we have damaged it ourselves and also because radicalized youth are never impressed by secularism in the first place.

 

[Zibago]

Isn't India a signatory of the convention of genocide?

Laws dont apply in Kashmir

 

[salarsikander]

I understand that you speak without malice. Unfortunately, things have gone out of the hands of sensible people.

The Valley has now become trapped in a vicious, self-reinforcing cycle. The Indian government and elected leaders in J&K want one kind of status quo. The separatists want status quo of another kind. I hope you are old enough to realize one basic truth about life in South Asia - person power, greed and self-aggrandizement are the only motives left in any form of political organization in our lives. The founding fathers of both nations had warned against this possibility, and here we are.

The ineptitude and occasional brutality of the Indian government is very public in nature. I don't see any point in disputing that. But such a complex problem has many dimensions. You cannot discount the insidious role played by elements who use death for their own agenda. Instigating youth towards violence, and then sitting back and watching the fun. Sadly, it is the lives of Kashmiris and Indian soldiers that is the price for their ambitions. Each dead or injured Kashmiri means nothing more to them than an emotional card to be played.

Although I am not sure the Indian government will ever be able to implement the development agenda that you mentioned in a proper manner. For that to happen, India will have to change as a nation. But there is also something for you to understand about the issue - it has now gone beyond fairness and sanity. Do not underestimate the vicious intent of those who are leading the separatists - both soft and violent ones. If there is no despair in the Valley, where will they get followers from? Any attempts at bringing normalcy will be met with resistance.

For example, few years back after a long time tourists started returning to the valley. Immediately the separatists saw trouble and within no time the valley was burning once again, thereby driving the tourists away. Last year, a mob burned down the valley's first high-density orchard because it happened to be near the site where Burhan Wani was killed. The orchard belonged to a local entrepreneur. Just in the immediate aftermath of the Wani encounter, 26 schools were burnt down.

Now you may either see it as a helpless people venting their frustrations, or rather as it actually is - that they are pawns in someone else's game. The things that can bring normalcy back to their lives are deliberately targeted - education, tourism, enterprise. This will build up the grievances which will further provide the ammunition for the movement to continue, never discount the efficacy of long term planning.

I know you are right when you say the Indian government has handled it badly. Now the issue has become more of a chicken-and-egg story, whether the separatists' intent to cultivate and use the misery of Kashmiris for their purpose came first or the Indian government's stupidity. But really, what's the point? Isn't it true that both will have to change for situation to improve?

I am not expecting you to curtail your sympathy for Kashmiris. That is your rightful prerogative. All I expect is that you see the complete picture and don't think that the people leading this movement are innocent victims - like many Machiavellian "leaders" before them, they are using the suffering of others for their own purposes, and have every motive to want it to continue.

That is true, but it does not end here. As a nation which is growing, Kashmir needs its rightful!place in India. When Indian can develop infra of war torn country infested with terrorists in Afghanistan nwhy can't it genuinely do that in Kashmir?

It is all about intent. Indian can thousand more soldiers yet it can carry out development under the watchful eyes of those soldiers? Once you do that. Everyone will shun violence and get back to work

You're heading towards next 71

 

[baajey]

idiot war monger