Delhi’s Aurangzeb Road Renamed After Dr. A.P.J. Abdul Kalam

[hussain0216]

You do know that those conquerors destroyed most places of today's Pakistan too, right? Or do you think they flew over Pakistan in C-17s and launched airborne invasions into India's gangetic plains?

It is pathetic that you name your missiles after people who raped, pillaged and massacred your own ancestors. In fact 100% of today's Pakistanis had ancestors who were killed or raped by those central asian armies. Today's Indians do not have that many ancestors who were affected.

Lahore, Peshawar etc were destroyed by those "conquerors", Bombay and Chennai were not. It is your great-great...grandparents who bore the brunt of their barbarisms. The Ghaznis and Ghauris after whom you name your missiles, probably raped your female ancestors and murdered your male ancestors. It is ludicrous to name your missiles after the ones who destroyed your ancestors, but hey - that's your privilege.



Correct. But you don't see Israelis naming their missiles after Ceasar or Augustus. But Pakistanis name their hardware after the people who raped and pillaged and tortured and murdered their ancestors. How pathetic should one be, to worship the very people who did all that to you?



That shows your ignorance, and that's coming from a non-hindu. You think "idols" were all that temples held? You have no clue about the majestic architecture and the finery? You are unaware of all the rich wealth these temples held? Ah, what the heck - I'm trying to explain things to somebody who's education consisted of the one lesson, "we so great, pagans bad."

I came back to 32 alerts no way i am reading or responding to all that after a long work day

But i clicked on your alert just to see what the alleged indian muslim would say and lo and behold verbal diarrhoea straight from the hindutva handbook



Sure the muslim conquerors had to pass through what 8s modern day Pakistan


But how else would they have gotten to india

The slaughter of idol worshippers and destruction of worthless temples was india wide

Tamerlane sacked Delhi and killed his hindus there muslim rule extended across india and rightly so temples were destroyed across india

From Tamerlane to Babur to Aurengzeb they may have conquered and destroyed for Empire but the byproduct was establishment of islam and muslims across the sub continent

All sub continent muslims owe these men a debt of gratitude as they bought islam to replace the idolatry

If tge faith of God hadnt been bought here by the wsves of conquerors and sufis snd teachers and muslims then our people You included would be bowing to idols and worshipping flying monkeys and elephant Gods and other obscenities like primitive pagans

To denounce these conquerors is to denounce every muslim who spread our faith or expanded muslim rule



We muslims of the subcontinent whether in Pakistan or india ir Bangladesh are the inheritors of the muslim history whether these invasions or Mughal rule




Our missiles are to destroy millions of hindus named after men who struck fear in the whole hindu kaum, who had the blood of millions of hindus on their swords, who desecrated everything the hindus held dear
Never was a missile whose purpose is bring indiscriminate destruction to hindus more aptly named then after Ghauri or Ghaznavi



Finally sure I hate these pagans they are the enemies of muslims and Pakistan, The prophet himself was a destroyer of idols should we now condemn idol destruction, worship of idols is one of the most heinous sins in islam, these people are hell bound

Do not take idolaters as friends and alliea you should be aware of this as a alleged muslim

 

[Levina]

that one is gajendra chauhan... you must be watching too many films these last days.

Yeahhhh
How did you know?

The author is free to go to APJ Kalam road and cry the change of name. Bangladesh is free to rename roads to Aurangzeb etc.

Hehehe
Aurangzeb and Babur road in Bangladesh??
I like your imagination.

 

[Spectre]

Yeahhhh
How did you know?




Hehehe
Aurangzeb and Babur road in Bangladesh??
I like your imagination.

I wonder what is the shelf life of these names, when should they get replaced - we should form a waiting list of eminent personalities. Why name them after only people, why not things. Why not an iphone road.

There is a great book called American Gods by my favorite author Neil Gaiman. It premises since Gods derive power from their believers in future US will have gods like Iphone, TV, Video Games, Movies etc.

 

[Juggernautjatt]

@levina @magudi @Juggernautjatt @jbgt90 @The_Showstopper @rubyjackass @Razia Sultana - how should his callous post be replied to??

Gajendra was just another helpless farmer in distress, like lakhs of farmers in the country, many of whom commit suicide away from the media glare. Those who are alive die a thousand deaths each day as they see their starving children.There is no point in expecting sympathy for them from insenstive & unproductive minds of blind devotees.
But at the same time I would say that naming roads on the names of farmers who commited suicides is not gonna solve this problem. Roads should be named only after those people who inspires public to do something constructive.
Name of farmer Gajendra Singh is not important, he was just a victim of mismanaged system of our country, main problem is exploitation & poverty of farmers & this problem needs attention of country.

 

[KingMamba]

Misplaced priorities.

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

I haven't said anything about forced conversions, my posts have only been about the historically undeniable fact that invading armies from Central Asia (Timur, Ghazni, Ghauri, Nadir Shah etc) did commit mass murders and mass rapes and plundering and marauding to your ancestors and mine. You can read about those in their own official records. Some of them (Timur, for one) have sent back detailed reports, boasting about his men's exploits of rape and murder and mayhem. (A famous boast of his was about building a pyramid of 80,000 human skulls on his way from Lahore to Delhi.)

None of that was for conversions, those were just routine activities for invaders in those days. (And even today, in some places.)

Now about your question of forced conversions, it is again historically true that there was a lot of that happening in those days. Not from all Mughal rulers, but some of them - the most notorious being Aurangzeb. That's not just a "Sanghi" narrative, it is recorded history. (And that too fairly recent history, relative to the timeless history of the subcontinent.)

Your question is not really logically sound - that if there were forced conversions, why the majority are still hindus. For one, the mughals didn't rule all-powerful in the entire subcontinent all the time. India had several rulers, mostly hindus. (Rajputs, Marathas, southern kingdoms, etc.) And forced conversions too can only succeed to an extent - the other sides will resist, and they did resist. It's always a conflict between many power centers, not a one dimensional story of a bad ruler converting everybody with force.

Long story short, the history of conversions is complex and complicated. There were lots of forced and lots of voluntary conversions, much as muslims and hindus today like to deny either one of those aspects.

Sorry my ancestors were independent people of photohar region of Pakistan and one of the earliest rajpout who were converted into Islam and Janjua rajpouts did embraced Islam because they were impressed with the message of Islam brought by sufi saints. I know its not easy to get back in history to find out how and when every individual was converted into Islam from his/her previous faith. My point was that you are Muslim because of your Muslim ancestors as i suppose you are Muslim because you were born in Muslim family. You should get back to native religion of your ancestors if you are convince that they were forced into Islam by invaders against their will. Then why you are following the religion of those who forced your ancestors into Islam and ghar wapisi is right scheme for such confuse Muslims in india

Now you asked question that why Pakistani giving names of gauri, abdali to their nuclear weapons and answer is very simple that its because of their military power and strength and have nothing to do with their looting, plundering etc which was the culture of rulers and invaders in the past to demoralize enemy and create fear in their mind. Which Emperor never did such thing to establish their kingdom, rule or empire? Maratha did plunder neighbouring states and read what mongol did in Baghdad and what about Romans? You cannot subdue and conquer others with love and thats was the reason of all this bloodshed in past for political power. Religion is very much irrelevant . The problem with your Hinduvata is that they paint a ruler entirely evil or entirely good based on how they treated Hindus and how they perceived religion Hinduism or Sikhism. They like akbar who made mixture of religion and created his own version of deen e ilahe to please follower of every religion. They hate Aurangzaib because he was against polytheism . I am not defending wrong doing of any of these rulers but dont just paint them evil or good by just looking at one aspect of their life. It also matter whether you are reading history account from victim point of view or from neutral sources

Now coming back to topic giving aurngzaib name to some road don't mean that you approve all the wrong doing of Aurangzeb so you must change it because road represent wrong deeds of a Muslim ruler in past. Why then don't apply same logic to ashok road in Delhi? There will be many Indian Muslims with name aurngazaib or say osama. Would they become evil just because of keeping this name? Name osama don't represent terrorism in itself as many good people have this name. Long story short, this all name changing thing is being done to please Hindu nationalists and to satisfy their ego otherwise its meaningless form practical point of view

 

[jamahir]

Gajendra was just another helpless farmer in distress, like lakhs of farmers in the country, many of whom commit suicide away from the media glare. Those who are alive die a thousand deaths each day as they see their starving children.There is no point in expecting sympathy for them from insenstive & unproductive minds of blind devotees.

well said.

But at the same time I would say that naming roads on the names of farmers who commited suicides is not gonna solve this problem. Roads should be named only after those people who inspires public to do something constructive.

i agree with you most of the way.

but gajendra singh was not just a suicider but was a voluntary leader who wanted to demonstrate the plight of farmers and he without shame stood on that tree and shouted and ranted for who knows how long... he was a natural grass-roots leader who did ( while alive ) what so many party-connected farmer organizations haven't... it is his leadership and non-defeatist spirit that i want celebrated and commemorated.

however, this need not be a road... it can be a new institute to research on progressive farming solutions like "vertical farms".

 

[KingMamba]

And why do you think it is a good idea to talk like this, on a PAKISTANI forum?

Or even on any forum?

Do not worry that is the typical hindu version of history and is about as true as vedic sciences and elephant head transplants.

 

[Hindustani78]

Sorry my ancestors were independent people of photohar region of Pakistan and one of the earliest rajpout who were converted into Islam and Janjua rajpouts did embraced Islam because they were impressed with the message of Islam brought by sufi saints. I know its not easy to get back in history to find out how and when every individual was converted into Islam from his/her previous faith. My point was that you are Muslim because of your Muslim ancestors as i suppose you are Muslim because you were born in Muslim family. You should get back to native religion of your ancestors if you are convince that they were forced into Islam by invaders against their will. Then why you are following the religion of those who forced your ancestors into Islam and ghar wapisi is right scheme for such confuse Muslims in india

Now you asked question that why Pakistani giving names of gauri, abdali to their nuclear weapons and answer is very simple that its because of their military power and strength and have nothing to do with their looting, plundering etc which was the culture of rulers and invaders in the past to demoralize enemy and create fear in their mind. Which Emperor never did such thing to establish their kingdom, rule or empire? Maratha did plunder neighbouring states and read what mongol did in Baghdad and what about Romans? You cannot subdue and conquer others with love and thats was the reason of all this bloodshed in past for political power. Religion is very much irrelevant . The problem with your Hinduvata is that they paint a ruler entirely evil or entirely good based on how they treated Hindus and how they perceived religion Hinduism or Sikhism. They like akbar who made mixture of religion and created his own version of deen e ilahe to please follower of every religion. They hate Aurangzaib because he was against polytheism . I am not defending wrong doing of any of these rulers but dont just paint them evil or good by just looking at one aspect of their life. It also matter whether you are reading history account from victim point of view or from neutral sources

Now coming back to topic giving aurngzaib name to some road don't mean that you approve all the wrong doing of Aurangzeb so you must change it because road represent wrong deeds of a Muslim ruler in past. Why then don't apply same logic to ashok road in Delhi? There will be many Indian Muslims with name aurngazaib or say osama. Would they become evil just because of keeping this name? Name osama don't represent terrorism in itself as many good people have this name. Long story short, this all name changing thing is being done to please Hindu nationalists and to satisfy their ego otherwise its meaningless form practical point of view

I cant understand why it should be an issue , If Indian Government decides to change the name of the Road ??

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

I cant understand why it should be an issue , If Indian Government decides to change the name of the Road ??

read last part of my post

 

[KingMamba]

@ayesha.a How Hindus survived as an overwhelming majority at the end of this very long Muslim rule in India if there were systemic forced conversion and killing of Hindus? I am not denying there would be some forced conversion and some crimes against humanity which all rulers in past did for political power as aurangzeb even killed her own blood relatives and so did ashoka but dont buy all BS you hear from Hinduvata

That is because there was no real attempt to forcefully convert all Hindus. If there was there would be no Hindus left, Hindus like to make it out as some sort of grand hindu resistance but that is all bullshit. As you know most Muslim empires were decentralized and so often times many Hindus would still be under their own local kings. For them it was just business as usual in day to day life not an unending armed struggle you would come to believe if you open hindutva history books.

In fact if you want to see how effective real attempts of forced conversion can be look at the forced conversion during the inquisition of Spain or the forced conversion of sunnis by Safavids in Iran. All neutral historians agree those were concentrated efforts by the rulers to forcefully convert all of their subjects. Yet no neutral historian agrees with any aspect of hindutva tales whether outright attempts to forcefully convert or the supposed millions of Hindus who were killed. If Muslim emperors had wanted they could have easily converted all Hindus, the reality is they were more concerned with making profit through jizya then anything else.

 

[Hindustani78]

Do not worry that is the typical hindu version of history and is about as true as vedic sciences and elephant head transplants.

That is about the ancient divine beings of the Rig Vedic tribes who are still worshipped by millions of Indians.

India is still the land of an ancient civilization.

 

[KingMamba]

That is about the ancient divine beings of the Rig Vedic tribes who are still worshipped by millions of Indians.

India is still the land of an ancient civilization.

Cool story but what does it have to do with my comment?

 

[Hindustani78]

Cool story but what does it have to do with my comment?

Its not any story but faith of millions of Indians.

 

[Post Colonnial]

Its said that Babur destroyed Ram Temple at Ayodhya and built Babri Masjid. Let me see when they change the name of Babur Road. Please also change the name of the country from India to Bharat. We already have at helm the master of repackaging and rebranding old stuffs.

I have a suggestion. All the 2M + toilettes that have been built should be named after babur and his dynasty of barbarians. That's one way a lot of Indians will be motivated to go use them instead of open air shrubbery!