Delhi varsity considers removing Allama Iqbal from syllabus

[TriptiD]

She has a genuine point. However petty and shallow the decision may seem to be, we need to consider the matter from a distance and with detachment.

Iqbal was relevant as a thinker who bridged the Doomsday logic and dire forebodings of Sir Syed Ahmed Khan and Mohammed Ali Jinnah, who took the two-nation theory of the former, and clothed it in terms that could be grasped and advocated by one of the foremost legal minds of his age. It was, in other words, very specific to Pakistan and the ideation and creation of Pakistan, whether or not the final steps were forced by circumstance.

Once the Indian National Congress took a clear view against that, and, inherently, against the Hindu-first parallel scheme of Savarkar and Golwalkar, and rejected the Two Nation Theory as a founding principle, Iqbal's relevance was extinguished. What is relevant in Indian political science theory and analysis is the contestation between the secular principles of the Congress and the bigoted thinking of the Sangh Parivar. There is no longer even the shadow of a Muslim version of the Two Nation Theory extant in India, nor the possibility that it might be relevant in any conceivable future set of circumstances.

@TriptiD

The Congress has no tenable claim to secular principles. Who overturned the Shah Bano judgement against the advice of his own Muslim ministers and who unlocked the Ram Lalla temple to appease Hindus ? Which party sponsored and propped up Bhindrawale and which party used to get the Shahi Imam of the Jama Masjid to issue a fatwa to Muslims to vote in its favour?

Also, the Sangh Parivar is not some ideological monolith and the RSS ideology itself is often misunderstood. It is based on pan- Hinduism rather than the othering of Muslims or Christians. It has done seminal work against untouchability and the caste system, for example. Sure, there are some vocal Hindu extemists that are part of the Parivar, but the majority of Hindus, and increasing number of Muslims, do not vote for the BJP because of any bigotry towards Muslims and other minorities but because BJP governments have generally been more efficient and leas corrupt than those of the Congress and other parties that claim to be secular and socialist. Where that has not been true, for example in most of the South, Orissa, Punjab and Delhi, the BJP has been unable to reap similar electoral rewards.

 

[AA_]

Pakistan =/= Islam (and spl not thekedaars of)

just so we're clear

Hey dothead, where do you see Islam in my post? And who is a malnourished fakir to tell us who’s a Muslim or isn’t. You Hindus are hilarious with the way you look at Muslims through your shit color Hinduism tinted glasses.

I am who I say I am and it’s great you are making all these rules and laws to extract all Muslim related influence.

Keep up the good work. I’m with you

 

[Drexluddin Khan Spiveyzai]

She has a genuine point. However petty and shallow the decision may seem to be, we need to consider the matter from a distance and with detachment.

I haven't studied PolSci but I think it includes thinkers or leaders of the past. Esp since majority of Iqbal's work was done in the last century.

Once the Indian National Congress took a clear view against that, and, inherently, against the Hindu-first parallel scheme of Savarkar and Golwalkar, and rejected the Two Nation Theory as a founding principle, Iqbal's relevance was extinguished.

I think his relevance was due to his efforts w.r.t to Jinnah, the Muslim League and the Muslims of the subcontinent in general. How congress is even in that equation, I am genuinely curious.

 

[ProudThamizhan]

Leave him in history and perhaps literature.
Ps. I dunno much abt him but from a cursory scan looks like he was a poet, a thought leader for Muslim separation and had some influence on shaping Pakistan. We should therefore not be ignorant of him, his works and his influence but it doesn’t have to cloud Modern Political anything. We have much more accomplished fools that shape that

 

[Joe Shearer]

You called the Sangh bigoted but claverly didn't call Iqbal and Jinnah bigoted. If Sangh and Muslim league were the two sides of the two nation theory, then both should be bigoted right? Incidentally it's the Sangh (whom you call a party to the two nation theory) who dreams for a United undivided India (Akhand Bharat) and not Congress.

I called the Sangh bigoted because in India today, the context in which we are discussing the removal of Iqbal's thoughts, they are the ones bigoted, and nobody else. You may have noticed that the reason for Iqbal's removal is that he is not relevant to modern Indian political thought.

So there is no question of equating the opposing sides of 75 years ago with the opposing side of today, particularly when one of the opposed sides of 75 years ago no longer exists.

I am beyond astonished at the stupidity of your remark about Akhand Bharat. That had nothing to do with the Congress. The Congress stood for secularism, a completely different thing. It is the Sangh Parivar that did nothing for Indian independence and stands today, jumping up and down, talking about Akhand Bharat.

Your post should be framed and hung around your neck to ensure that you never again make a post without thinking, or without understanding.

I haven't studied PolSci but I think it includes thinkers or leaders of the past. Esp since majority of Iqbal's work was done in the last century.

No longer relevant in the current context, then. That is precisely what they are saying, albeit in an ungracious and churlish manner.

I think his relevance was due to his efforts w.r.t to Jinnah, the Muslim League and the Muslims of the subcontinent in general.

I know that like many others my English is a learnt language, and has all the shortcomings of such a learnt language, but had rather the impression that I had said precisely this in my post.

 

[NagaBaba]

anyway, my srs thought on the whole saga is that IDGAFF

literally nobody cares, bro

yet some xutias are all upset about it

the bigger the xutia one is, the more outrage you feel.. do a self xutia check, people.

 

[TriptiD]

The divide between the two nations will widen

How will a handful of students in Delhi no longer studying Iqbal's political philosophy, which, in any case, has been discredited in India, widen the divide between the two countries ? Immediately after the partition, the subject of what caused the partition might have been topical, but today, in India, the two nation theory of Iqbal is seen in the same light as the political philosophies of Lenin or Ceausescu - something that history has washed aside and is of only academic interest now. Iqbal's political philosophy is as relevant in India today as that of Madan Mohan Malviya is in Pakistan. I am sure undergraduate political science courses in Pakistan do not devote a chapter to Pandit Malviya. In an undergraduate political science course, a chapter on Iqbal can be replaced by someone who is more relevant to modern India. He is already well known enough in India as a prominent Urdu poet.

 

[NagaBaba]

the bigger the xutia one is, the more outrage one feels

-------------------

ok, basic logic question, kids

If Joseph here, seems very upset.. what can we conclude ?

 

[Joe Shearer]

How congress is even in that equation, I am genuinely curious.

You seriously do not know?

Words fail me.

 

[salarsikander]

Why?

Dont be a hyporcite

 

[Chopchop]

I think it not worse decision. In my state even college girl who writing poem for independence is arrested, but because ikbal is bhaya he is good for studying. It not fair.
Ugly Bhaya persons do worse things but no problem,student should study him but others do some small thing it become very bad.
Today I reading pdf, and all Pakistan can see how bhaya person near Imran kahn running away. He still standing but fwad chodhry the ugly fat person ran away. This is normal behavior for this persons. But it no problem most Pakistan people. Only tribals are bad, same in India.

 

[Joe Shearer]

The Congress has no tenable claim to secular principles. Who overturned the Shah Bano judgement against the advice of his own Muslim ministers and who unlocked the Ram Lalla temple to appease Hindus ? Which party sponsored and propped up Bhindrawale and which party used to get the Shahi Imam of the Jama Masjid to issue a fatwa to Muslims to vote in its favour?

Did you notice that characterising the Congress as secular was at the time of partition? Please don't post without reading and understanding what you are responding to.

Also, the Sangh Parivar is not some ideological monolith and the RSS ideology itself is often misunderstood. It is based on pan- Hinduism rather than the othering of Muslims or Christians.

That is certainly not what emerges from reading Savarkar or Golwalkar. The whole concept of the Two Nation Theory put forward by Savarkar makes no sense unless the Hindu, as a nation, is contrasted to the Muslim, as a nation.

Sure, there are some vocal Hindu extemists that are part of the Parivar, but the majority of Hindus, and increasing number of Muslims, do not vote for the BJP because of any bigotry towards Muslims and other minorities but because BJP governments have generally been more efficient and leas corrupt than those of the Congress and other parties that claim to be secular and socialist

Quite possible, in concept. Could you explain how the BJP governments have been more efficient and less corrupt? Have they made even a single contribution to improvement of governance? Or done anything more than take Congress plans and programmes, change the names and a few superficial features, and re-launch them?

Disclaimer: I am not a Congress supporter. Please do not equate opposition to BJP/ Sangh Parivar bigotry with support for the Congress.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Where that has not been true, for example in most of the South, Orissa, Punjab and Delhi, the BJP has been unable to reap similar electoral rewards.

Perhaps you should stand your argument on its head.

Perhaps you should consider that the Sangh Parivar has an impact where the voting population is deadened with superstition and religiosity, where industry does not have a footprint, and where the virulence hate language against Muslims is the strongest.

Perhaps the Sangh Parivar has less or no impact where the voting population is more evolved.

I think it not worse decision. In my state even college girl who writing poem for independence is arrested, but because ikbal is bhaya he is good for studying. It not fair.
Ugly Bhaya persons do worse things but no problem,student should study him but others do some small thing it become very bad.
Today I reading pdf, and all Pakistan can see how bhaya person near Imran kahn running away. He still standing but fwad chodhry the ugly fat person ran away. This is normal behavior for this persons. But it no problem most Pakistan people. Only tribals are bad, same in India.

Oh no, a parody artist. As if we don't have enough idiocy floating around already.

I think it not worse decision. In my state even college girl who writing poem for independence is arrested, but because ikbal is bhaya he is good for studying. It not fair.
Ugly Bhaya persons do worse things but no problem,student should study him but others do some small thing it become very bad.
Today I reading pdf, and all Pakistan can see how bhaya person near Imran kahn running away. He still standing but fwad chodhry the ugly fat person ran away. This is normal behavior for this persons. But it no problem most Pakistan people. Only tribals are bad, same in India.

Oh no, a parody artist. As if we don't have enough idiocy floating around already.

Dont be a hyporcite

You mean you don't know what to say? Iqbal wrote it for Hindustan. He did not write it for Pakistan, or for the Muslim nation. If you know the words, you would have known that already.

Iqbal the political scientist is irrelevant. We don't have to throw the baby out with the bathwater, and why the poem should be discarded is not clear.

Think it over.

 

[khansaheeb]

Iqbal was the divisive force and creator of the idea of Pakistan.

Removing such ideology, in fact, is first step in promoting peace and harmony between Indians and their unfriendly neighbor.

Indians taking the p!ss?

 

[AlKardai]

@Areesh @AlKardai

They remove everything they disagree with.

Kind of dumb though, erasing history.
Gives it a higher chance of it being repeated

Even in the UK, we are taught about the Roman invasions, etc.