Defining The Punjabi Taliban Network

[S-2]

Vol. II Issue 4 of the Combating Terror Center (CTC) Sentinel is out and the above is the featured article. A link to the entire magazine-

CTC Sentinel-Defining the Punjabi Taliban Network-Hassan Abbas

I'll look forward to the input of the local experts here.

 

[blain2]

Thanks for posting. Hassan Abbas' book is a good read as well. Much more depth in the book about these and many other issues he hits upon.

 

[fatman17]

the area from DI Kkan through to DG Khan, Bahawalpur is the area where this phenomenon is currently taking hold.

 

[S-2]

The elements of a rural-based class struggle seem present and much of the proselytizing rhetoric we've read of in Buner carries this same tinge. What's missing is a unifying platform across these disparate groups.

Dr. Abbas refers to the Egyptians and Arabs as the "chemists". Alchemy would seem more accurate but they clearly are looked to as the political theologians and moral compass of the movement. How that may be transformed into a mechanism for the salafi/deobandi governance of Pakistan is unclear as hell.

I'm uncertain, and I suspect most are also, as to how dramatically the Punjab may become radicalized. What's it's vulnerability, where, and why?

These punjabi militant organizations are semi-autonomous. That's tactically advantageous but these groups certainly suffer from any unified objectives with each other much less the TTP other than some commonality of religion?

"...the area from DI Kkan through to DG Khan, Bahawalpur is the area where this phenomenon is currently taking hold."

fatman17, can you describe how this "phenomenon" appears on the ground? Symptoms of it's presence in a community? I know where D.I. Khan is located. Are you extending due east to Lahore over the Indus river?

 

[fatman17]

The elements of a rural-based class struggle seem present and much of the proselytizing rhetoric we've read of in Buner carries this same tinge. What's missing is a unifying platform across these disparate groups.

Dr. Abbas refers to the Egyptians and Arabs as the "chemists". Alchemy would seem more accurate but they clearly are looked to as the political theologians and moral compass of the movement. How that may be transformed into a mechanism for the salafi/deobandi governance of Pakistan is unclear as hell.

I'm uncertain, and I suspect most are also, as to how dramatically the Punjab may become radicalized. What's it's vulnerability, where, and why?

These punjabi militant organizations are semi-autonomous. That's tactically advantageous but these groups certainly suffer from any unified objectives with each other much less the TTP other than some commonality of religion?

"...the area from DI Kkan through to DG Khan, Bahawalpur is the area where this phenomenon is currently taking hold."

fatman17, can you describe how this "phenomenon" appears on the ground? Symptoms of it's presence in a community? I know where D.I. Khan is located. Are you extending due east to Lahore over the Indus river?

Sir, pls give me some time to reply! what i will say so far, this phenomenon so far is not of the militant variety, and whether it converts to militant (based on the success or not of the militants up in the FATA) is yet to be seen!

 

[Bill Longley]

TALIBAN CAN NEVER TALIBANIZE PUNJAB, SINDH or BALOCHISTAN

Pakistan has 80 % sunni population in this only 10 to 15 percent are deobandi

i reckon in south punjab deoband and jehadis may be in power
but i asure you the sufism in punjab has strong followers
if some incident like pir baba , or rehman baba happens in punjab or sindh or in AJK or in balochistan these fanatic talibs will get resistance which they never dreamed of
each home and village will give strong resistance to them....

 

[Elmo]

Not an "expert" but here are my "two cents":

a good book on the phenomenon is by Mohammad Waseem (a Lahore-based journo) on the jihadis groups here...I'll try putting extracts from it.

also, there is no mention of Jamaat-ud-Dawa/Lashkar-e-Taiba at Muridke... wonder why. it is equally important, especially as Osama Bin Laden was purported to have given 100 million dollars to set up the training camp.

If it's in DI Khan it goes into Bhakkar district in the Punjab, again a stronghold of the SSP.


One more thing, DI Khan may have a sizeable presence of the militants because of its proximity to Wazirsitan agencies, it is still immune. The Taliban here have little support and nor is its ideology shared as unlike the rest of the province which is Pashtun or Hazara dominated, DI Khan is inhabited by Saraiki speakers.

 

[Elmo]

@ Bill Longley: Talibanisation doesn't happen overnight. It's a long arduous process. It takes years of brainwashing — something which the govt. of Pkistn should have taken note of when it allowed madrassas to sprout up all over Pakistan. Hence the "Talibs" are already there is those madrassas of south Punjab — it's only a matter of time when they are invoked by the likes of Hafix Saeed and Commander Tari...at the end of the day they do share the Deobandism with the Taliban if not their ethnicity.

 

[Bill Longley]

@ Bill Longley: Talibanisation doesn't happen overnight. It's a long arduous process. It takes years of brainwashing — something which the govt. of Pkistn should have taken note of when it allowed madrassas to sprout up all over Pakistan. Hence the "Talibs" are already there is those madrassas of south Punjab — it's only a matter of time when they are invoked by the likes of Hafix Saeed and Commander Tari...at the end of the day they do share the Deobandism with the Taliban if not their ethnicity.

you see i think there are two types of muslim
1. who have faith in wasila
2. those who deny

or
1. those who belive in batin
2. those who dont

ppl of punjab belong to fist

according to marks " war is actually a voilent class struggle "

ppl of pak have become hopeless of present elite they may support talibs initially but not for long because talibs represent ideology which is amalgam of pashtunvali and islam
where as in punjab and sindh people follow sufism

 

[S-2]

Dr. Abbas indicated a Pakistani security officer had mentioned locals overhearing the Saraiki dialect among some of the police academy attackers. The guy captured was purportedly from Khost or somewhere like that in eastern Afghanistan and couldn't understand the police. Is the dialect specific to D.I. Khan and it's immediate environs?

Hazara? I thought they were only prevalent in Afghanistan? Are most shias in the NWFP/Islamic Emirate of Waziristan hazara?

 

[fatman17]

Dr. Abbas indicated a Pakistani security officer had mentioned locals overhearing the Saraiki dialect among some of the police academy attackers. The guy captured was purportedly from Khost or somewhere like that in eastern Afghanistan and couldn't understand the police. Is the dialect specific to D.I. Khan and it's immediate environs?

Hazara? I thought they were only prevalent in Afghanistan? Are most shias in the NWFP/Islamic Emirate of Waziristan hazara?

many poor and un-employed people from the seraiki belt were/are recruited by "mullahs" to fight in afghanistan/and other militant outfits!

 

[muse]

Hazara mostly in B'stan

Also see Hazara division in NWFP --


S2

Which is the second largest Shi'ah country in the world?? Iraq or Pakistan?

 

[S-2]

"Which is the second largest Shi'ah country in the world?? Iraq or Pakistan?"

Iraq-26m total population. Pakistan-170m population. India-1,000,000,000+ total population.

I'll guess Pakistan. No google. The above should explain it.

 

[Zob]

the weird thing is Taliban are going into punjab...but are having no stronghold whatso ever is Balochistan....and ofcourse hands down balochistan has the most grievences out of all the provinces...i wonder why....

 

[muse]

S2

See "The Shia Revival: How Conflicts within Islam Will Shape the Future" by Vali Nasr

the weird thing is Taliban are going into punjab...but are having no stronghold whatso ever is Balochistan....and ofcourse hands down balochistan has the most grievences out of all the provinces...i wonder why....

You have said something really important - some say it not just what your adversaries say about your actions but what they do not say, as well, that is important.