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Defense Official: Qaher 313 Home-Made Fighter Jet to Protect Persian Gulf

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This sentence is incorrect for early U-2s.

Here it is in nice shiny aluminum:

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u2-3t.jpg

The U-2 was made of the thinnest possible types of metal so that its light weight would ease the extreme heights of its flights.
U-2 Spy Plane - To the brink of war : The impact of the U-2 Spy plane on the Cuban Missile Crisis

the U-2 was built of lightweight materials.
Cordon of Steel

dirty_bird_02.jpg

Seeking the Dirty Bird
 
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You can see the wings bend in flight (0:30-0:33)!



... and utterly irrelevant to the story.

Back then, aluminum alloys were the lightweight materials until honeycomb panels were developed for the Hustler. Shiny unpainted aluminum is very much a metal and does not absorb radar waves. Absorbent coatings and composites were added much later. Early U-2s were NOT made from "nonmetallic materials". They were non stealthy and relied on altitude mainly for protection.
 
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Thats why you people are helping assad killing civillians and raping their women. Protecting assad is your goal and you are using every inhumane means to acheive it. Is that what your imams taught you. killing and raping???????????
and who is accusing us? cannibals? sorry, no answer for you.
 
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Back then, aluminum alloys were the lightweight materials until honeycomb panels were developed for the Hustler. Shiny unpainted aluminum is very much a metal and does not absorb radar waves. Absorbent coatings and composites were added much later. Early U-2s were NOT made from "nonmetallic materials". They were non stealthy and relied on altitude mainly for protection.

That point was already made, I've acknowledged it by my post, it doesn't matter for the point in the discussion so why are you repeating this (for a third time)?
 
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That point was already made, I've acknowledged it by my post, it doesn't matter for the point in the discussion so why are you repeating this?

Sorry, I thought you had a different opinion about it. My bad.
 
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Sorry, I thought you had a different opinion about it. My bad.

Whatever the materials used on the initial U2's, they were not easy to detect. Still, the Russians managed to detect it in the 1960 even after radar absorbing paint was added. And with radars today being better than in the 1960s, ....
 
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Whatever the materials used on the initial U2's, they were not easy to detect. Still, the Russians managed tot detect it in the 1960 even after radar absorbing paint was added. And with radars today being better than in the 1960s, ....

I can agree with all of that. My only correction was about the use of non metallic materials in the early U-2s.

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You may find this interesting:

https://www.cia.gov/library/center-...ns/csi-studies/studies/winter98_99/art02.html

"Early U-2 Flights . . .

During the ten days beginning on 4 July 1956, the U-2 detachment from Wiesbaden made five deep incursions into Soviet airspace at an altitude of approximately 20 kilometers (about 66,000 feet). The U-2s obtained high-quality photography of such targets as airfields near Moscow where bombers were based and a shipyard near Leningrad (now St. Petersburg) where submarines were being built. Soviet radar detected and tracked the U-2s (albeit with some gaps in coverage). Moscow repeatedly protested the incursions to the US Embassy."

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"Soviet Reactions to U-2 Overflights

Soviet military intelligence was fully aware of U-2 high-altitude reconnaissance flights from their very beginning. Soviet radar tracked the first two U-2 flights as they proceeded from West Germany through Eastern Europe and over the USSR on 4 and 5 July 1956. The first flight spent more than 2 1/2 hours over Soviet territory; the second was in Soviet airspace for almost 3 1/2 hours, penetrating to a depth of 1,000 kilometers (about 620 miles).

The Soviets observed three more deep U-2 incursions into their airspace on 9-10 July, tracking them as they proceeded from West Germany at altitudes of 16 to 20 kilometers (about 52,000 to 66,000 feet). These aircraft spent from three to 4 1/2 hours over Soviet territory, penetrating to depths of 700 to 1,400 kilometers (about 435 to 870 miles). Soviet and other Warsaw Pact radar observed each of these flights over the entire extent of their routes (with some gaps), and air defense fighter aircraft were vectored to the targets, but the fighters' ceilings were below U-2 altitudes by several kilometers, preventing them from operating effectively against the reconnaissance planes.

The Soviets also took steps through diplomatic channels. An official protest note to the US Government on 10 July stated that American violations of Soviet airspace represented "a deliberate action by certain US circles designed to exacerbate relations between the Soviet Union and the United States." Like Soviet notes of previous years protesting intrusions by US military aircraft into Soviet airspace, the 10 July communication maintained that such actions were violations of international law.

A pause ensued in U-2 overflights of the USSR after those of July 1956, but they were resumed in 1957, creating new complications for the Soviets. President Eisenhower, citing the dangerous tenseness of the world situation in autumn 1956 in light of the Anglo-French-Israeli invasion of Egypt and the Hungarian uprising, did not allow more flights over the USSR until early 1957. Between March and October of that year, Soviet air defense radar picked up five U-2 overflights. In contrast to the July 1956 flights, the U-2s in 1957 reconnoitered areas of the Transcausus, Kazakhstan, and elsewhere in Central Asia, Siberia, and the Soviet north. Flying at altitudes of 19 to 21 kilometers (about 62,000 to 69,000 feet), they were beyond the reach of the Soviet Air Defense Forces' fighter planes and antiaircraft artillery."
 
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The design is good.

But it seems a bit too small to be able to be used as a potent dog-fighter or even to do air-to-ship(ASM) missions. Marine fighters need to be able to be up in the air for longer time because of the lack of landing fields available even in case of emergency, which means they will need additional fuel tanks than the conventional variants of a jet, which makes it very expensive.

How can it be 2-3 million dollars only?

How low-cost can it be?

You're talking about a fighter jet and not a suicide sub being dropped.

The ultimate aim is to be able to swarm the skies of Persian Gulf and rain bombs on USN's carrier battle groups right?

Mind you, that is not going to happen if you are making a very rudimentary structure. The air defence system aboard USN CBGs are deadly. A single carrier has an entire armada of protecting warships that are armed with dozens of cruise and air defence missiles apart from the CIWS cannons. Add to that 90+ Super Hornets armed to teeth with deadly AAMs.

You will need to use about 200 of them at once to overpower air defences, CBG warships and the fighter jets all together. Do you know what risk you will be carrying? 200 pilots are not easy to train. Each trained pilot is a precious resource because his training is what makes him a force in an air combat. Kamikaze while might seem grand, but is a foolish thing because unlike those basic flying turboprop fighters of the old, today jets are modern, easier to operate, faster, stealthier and have much much more devastating weapons than what the Japanese did.

You Iranians should be the last one to talk about suicide attacks.

Tell me, how many men died during the Iran-Iraq war? Thousands of young, brave and patriotic men were sent to be blown up to bits to be used as mine-sweepers across the land. Do you know what kind of a resource drain is that? You are a considerably populated country but the value of human life is too high to be used for such a trivial project.

Iranian government would do much more justice in spending more money and making this jet at least equal to atleast block 52 F-16s.

If China can manufacture J-10 under sanctions, then even you can do it.

Even if this is a simply plastic model shown for public display, to make it out of real composite grade material would cost a lot taking the price tag to at least $25-30 million, which is pretty normal for a modern fighter jet.

Iran has a variety of anti-ship missiles, so they won't need the Qaher-313 for that mission, but imagine the psychological and real threat perceived by Attacking forces of 200 more airplane fighters in the sky, and stealthy too.

2 to 3 million was the cost of research they have said, not the cost of the airplane that no one knows yet. Given that they have already produced the Saeqa fighter plane ( I have recently seen a production video of the Saeqa ), the research was just to build on from there.
I do not think Iran wants to invest too much money to match any other non Iranian jet on the market, their own planes are not for sell, one can not know their performance and ability until he meets them in combat, suffice that the Iranian officials have said that it was a very advanced and sophisticated fighter plane. Do not expect them to give you its detailed characteristics, they have given the general ones.
It is not too small, if it has the size of a Saeqa, it can be a multi-role fighter like they have said.

As for war that was imposed on Iran, and the victims that you call kamikazes, than all soldiers are kamikazes if it comes to that. I think that famine and disease kill more Indians than that / year, so reality is that India should invest more money on that than on nuclear submarines and what have you...
 
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Iran has a variety of anti-ship missiles, so they won't need the Qaher-313 for that mission, but imagine the psychological and real threat perceived by Attacking forces of 200 more airplane fighters in the sky, and stealthy too.

2 to 3 million was the cost of research they have said, not the cost of the airplane that no one knows yet. Given that they have already produced the Saeqa fighter plane ( I have recently seen a production video of the Saeqa ), the research was just to build on from there.
I do not think Iran wants to invest too much money to match any other non Iranian jet on the market, their own planes are not for sell, one can not know their performance and ability until he meets them in combat, suffice that the Iranian officials have said that it was a very advanced and sophisticated fighter plane. Do not expect them to give you its detailed characteristics, they have given the general ones.
It is not too small, if it has the size of a Saeqa, it can be a multi-role fighter like they have said.

As for war that was imposed on Iran, and the victims that you call kamikazes, than all soldiers are kamikazes if it comes to that. I think that famine and disease kill more Indians than that / year, so reality is that India should invest more money on that than on nuclear submarines and what have you...


So? You condone sending young men, conscripts into their deaths?

Do you really think that a country like USA would not take such things into consideration?

THINK:

1- They put the sanctions on Iran and forced the world to do so.

2- They are patrolling the entire Gulf region, seeing every movement in Iran through satellites and other spy systems.

3- They pressed Russia and China not to assist Iranian military progress in self-reliance to such an extent that even these two otherwise strong countries caved in.

Do you really think that they'll not take the 'quantity' perspective into picture considering that despite what the top elites in Iran claim or not?

First, Iran doesn't reveal its military capabilities which the Americans know is no matter what, not more advanced than theirs.

Second, investing into a technology that can preserve soldiers and at the same time win a war, is important.

Third, fighting a war of attrition with USA is useless. They won't even need to put boots on the ground. In a full-blown war, the best thing they'd do is recall at least three CBGs with their entire armada and a dozen other destroyers, launch their full aerial fury from their bases in Arab countries.

That's what they did in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Though Afghan strategy failed because of the nature of its conflict, what a potential US-Iran war would be, would be a conventional country to country war.

A war which USA has pioneered in.

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Bottomline is that personally, Iran should invest in technologies that can ensure sufficient protection of valuable pilots who will in turn someday lead Iranian Air Force.

It is difficult but considering the path the clerics have chosen of outright rejection of anything American, it will be something they have to do.

The other option is to tone down politically a bit and rather try to slightly mend ties with the West in general.

Iranians are not considered fanatic and are even admired in many western countries as being modern and far-sighted people --- something that Arabs, Pakistanis and other of Iran's neighbouring people are not considered as.

It is best that Iran follows a China-like strategy to build itself up.

China despises USA and if Mao had his way, US would have been sent to stone age with Communist missiles in the 60s itself.

But instead, Chinese chose to follow the Art of War.

They fed right into US heartland and have today taken a leading position.

Iran can do something similar but distinct given its own geopolitical circumstances and limitations.

But an outright confrontation would be foolish and wasteful.

The youth are the biggest resource any country has. Training them costs money, and lots of time. That should not go wasted.


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As for India, it is sad I know. Lakhs of them die every year. But these die separate from what the general population is, which is massive. More than 76% of the Indian population is under 25 years of age. Every year more than 80 million young men are combat fit to join military services if need be.

Being on PDF for quite sometime, you must be familiar with the geo-political compulsions India has, apart from a callous government.

Iran doesn't have so much demography and we're talking about a hypothetical confrontation between a superpower superior in every form of modern combat in today's warfare against a sanction-hit country.

Please understand the perspective from which I speak.
 
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To put some facts on record

First thing you'll know, Iran will show case the mass production line of the Qaher-313.

Now, since you seem to be highly educated in warfare systems, can you please explain what are electro-ionic systems.

It is much easier to power an Aircraft by horses or donkeys than by electro-ionic system aka ion thrusters.

An ion-thruster is a kind of experimental engines currently being used on large distance planetary missions.They have a high specific impulse but have very low total impulse and acceleration.

They need a conventional rocket to help them escape gravity so that they could be operational far away from earth gravity.

They could not be used to move even a tin can on planet where there is significant atmospheric drag and gravity to overcome.


Not really a western fan-boy like you, I use only logic , and I have given you a hint about a possible technology to be used once the attacking aircrafts are detected by the long range radar, they might comprise satellite navigation or computer based positing in space to send the Qaher-313 undetected to get close and shoot down the aircrafts if they have slept through the air defence systems, this is just one possibility for the use of the stealth fighter plane. I cannot go into scientific details for you, I have given you a general and plausible idea, so take it, think about it, or leave it, it is as simple as that.
I think your long range ballistic missile is fake or at best an RC model, can you please send me the blue prints of it. if not than you are a bad boy, an ignorant and you have no logic at all.

You do not have a GPS.


it's funny how you see every thing in dodge fight (and specially sharp angle ones), while in reality it's very rare. pilots kill the opponent before even see them, just a light disappears from the radar screen.
and those Lockheed crew, I bet still are busy wondering WTF happened to their most advanced stealth drone.
I wish your military crew and analyzers to be as arrogant as you.

A plane usually does not have a 360[SUP]o[/SUP] radar coverage so every plane has to maneuver to get into a position to take a good shot.
 
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Qaher-313 is NOT a fighter jet.
It's just a small,cheap,stealth plane capable of flying very low altittude and is designed to attack bases and ships.

You will not see an Iranian fighter jet until Iran develops a powerful jet engine and good radars systems.
 
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After the fake videos and pics, ppl still believe the Qaher 313 is real?
 
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