Defending Militancy: Why they kill civilians, attack the state

[Awesome]

I feel you are being subjective based on your personal grudge , so I shall retire from debating you.
at least, you corrected "Khawarij" from "Khariji" !

Khariji is the singular of Khwarij

And Khariji means those who went out of their land. In normal Arabic expats are often referred as Khariji.

My advice for you is to really listen to what Niaz sahab has to say. Don't fixate upon the word Khariji, also listen to the fact that his emphasis was that he can't be part of any sect that advocates killing of innocents. Which is so fundamental and so important in taking out the hate and anger that now (wrongfully) seems like a part of Islam.

 

[TARIQ BN ZIYAAD]

You don't have to, after all, you share their basic outlook - and ofcourse in Arabia with the money you exchanged for Pakistan, it is easy to be "patient"

See, I told something wrong with you, you play both sides but your sympathy is with the enemy - But there is no need for patience with murderers.

Assalam alaikum

MashaAllah u send ppl to heaven and hell u have all sorts of accusations if someone differs from u or when u don't have an answer and lastly u try to make personnel attacks. dont bring the level of this forum down after all u r T.T overhere

To me u and taliban r no different and alhumdulillah u said that i m patient just like my ideal Ali r-a thanks for this compliment and u stay like the americans who bombed millions just for their own 3000.

TARIQ

 

[forcetrip]

Assalam alaikum

MashaAllah u send ppl to heaven and hell u have all sorts of accusations if someone differs from u or when u don't have an answer and lastly u try to make personnel attacks. dont bring the level of this forum down after all u r T.T overhere

To me u and taliban r no different and alhumdulillah u said that i m patient just like my ideal Ali r-a thanks for this compliment and u stay like the americans who bombed millions just for their own 3000.

TARIQ

I agree with your philosophy, but it is not making things better. Its making it worse. Sitting and praying for others to get on the right track has never worked in anyone's favor throughout history. They are destroying generations.. The dead tell no stories .. if they did we would have found different reasons to kill each other instead of fighting over who goes to heaven. What happens to the children that have been affected by these ideologies. It is a global epidemic. Just because the West has made a lot of mistakes and killed our innocent people does not mean we go into the mix with our future generations as cannon fodder. They have no plan and they are taking away our future with them as well. Time to make a stand and be vocal about who is right and who is not. Show your true face to the world.

 

[kugga]

Army should talk with taliban and stop this war... I don't want people dying everyday in Pakistan.... We should make them understand that they are wrong.. also kill those taliban leader who only want to kill more and more innocent people... but we should have a dialogue with them....

 

[TARIQ BN ZIYAAD]

I agree with your philosophy, but it is not making things better. Its making it worse. Sitting and praying for others to get on the right track has never worked in anyone's favor throughout history. They are destroying generations.. The dead tell no stories .. if they did we would have found different reasons to kill each other instead of fighting over who goes to heaven. What happens to the children that have been affected by these ideologies. It is a global epidemic. Just because the West has made a lot of mistakes and killed our innocent people does not mean we go into the mix with our future generations as cannon fodder. They have no plan and they are taking away our future with them as well. Time to make a stand and be vocal about who is right and who is not. Show your true face to the world.

Assalam alaikum

I agree with u and it is not a situation where somebody wanna be, if they don't have a plan we also don't have a plan and there r so many security mistakes. The whole nations is divided on this issue, we need to sit down and find out why r we divided and why our security forces r not protecting its even strategic installations let alone the public.
I saw a programm where sharmila farooqi was in replying to one said if it was u.s's war now we lost our 36000 so it became our war, i think these ppl r involved in making these monsters big monsters.

TARIQ

 

[TARIQ BN ZIYAAD]

Army should talk with taliban and stop this war... I don't want people dying everyday in Pakistan.... We should make them understand that they are wrong.. also kill those taliban leader who only want to kill more and more innocent people... but we should have a dialogue with them....

Assalam alaikum

Very well said brother, we can achieve a lot by talking instead of firing

TARIQ

 

[Developereo]

It's the duty of a True follower of Islam to teach the correct one to all those who are in the wrong path, it might be tough but a very much possible one.

I disagree.

Even on this forum, we see so many threads about people debating which is the true Islam and what kind of lifestyle is permitted or mandated by Islam. The problem with this approach is that each side fervently believes they are right. The debate quickly degenerates into sermonizing and rarely achieves anything useful.

The only requirement with religion should be to respect the others' choice and a crystal clear understanding that violence is not an option. It is the State's responsibility to enforce law and order and make it clear that incitement to criminal activity will not be tolerated.

Hifzullah’s reply is that killing Pakistani officers is the same as killing Americans, as they consider them as one.

That is precisely the game plan of America's war on terror. They know that the fanatics can not be reasoned with or cured, so the only option is to redirect their anger elsewhere. The Americans have made is clear that they will response disproportionately to any terror, so the terrorists channel their frustrations towards the much softer targets in Pakistan.

It's like some guy who gets angry at work and then takes out his anger by beating up his wife and kids.

 

[muse]

Merely contacting the militants and engaging with them in this discussion is a proof that some still think these militants are honest in their thoughts and opinions.

Just wondering... something remote... what if the militant on the radio, somehow, by trick or treat, manages to convince the army guy of his own version of the religion?

What are the possibilities after that?

It's happened before - one of the five most wanted men in Pakistan is a FC Jawan - who was turned by the Talib.

The larger question is that some in the armed forces are not reconciled to the notion that these are the enemy, they still dream of retaining these as their proxy as they once were. I think this is indisputable.

Of course all Pakistanis, and friends of a peaceful Pakistan, would want a united front against the Islamist terrorists, but once again, the army, seems to have other ideas.

If their response is that this was a "collection" effort, one wonders how much evidence will convince the army ?

 

[President Camacho]

Army should talk with taliban and stop this war...

They talked to the Taliban - June 2008. Swat Agreement.

I don't want people dying everyday in Pakistan....

They captured, then killed 22 policemen, to take over another town - when they were under their own oath that they will abide by the agreement.

We should make them understand that they are wrong.. also kill those taliban leader who only want to kill more and more innocent people... but we should have a dialogue with them....

............

 

[kugga]

They talked to the Taliban - June 2008. Swat Agreement.



They captured, then killed 22 policemen, to take over another town - when they were under their own oath that they will abide by the agreement.



............

Swat is a different story... Pak army take notice of that area quite late and they did not do agreements main taliban leader they guy whom they did agreement with had no control over those terrorists and btw those were not the talibans that are in fata area those were just bunch of theifs joined against state mangal bagh etc etc and ttp was supporting them because they were against the state.....
Pakistan should do serious dialogue with them instead of just media stunts to calm down people. Its question of life of innocents and the matter should be taken seriously. Killing its own people is not gonna solve the problem

 

[President Camacho]

Swat is a different story... Pak army take notice of that area quite late and they did not do agreements main taliban leader they guy whom they did agreement with had no control over those terrorists and btw those were not the talibans that are in fata area those were just bunch of theifs joined against state mangal bagh etc etc and ttp was supporting them because they were against the state.....
Pakistan should do serious dialogue with them instead of just media stunts to calm down people. Its question of life of innocents and the matter should be taken seriously. Killing its own people is not gonna solve the problem

Say, even if your words are taken with the face value.

Consider this: There is no more a single authority. Entire KPK is rife with small factions that work independently. The TTP is often quick to take responsibilities, but they let the TTP do so (take responsibility of the attacks) only for their own take in the looted arsenal and tax (ransom) distribution. (That is why every major organization wants complete control of Kohat - source of weapons and ration that can easily be captured at that crucial tunnel).

Otherwise, these numerous factions keep forming and disappearing all the time. They change shape so fast, by the end of the talks, some other group would be in control.

Even now, the entire TTP is shrinking rapidly, but attacks are going on with the same intensity.

So the question remains - whom would you hold your talks with?

 

[seekers]

Army should talk with taliban and stop this war... I don't want people dying everyday in Pakistan.... We should make them understand that they are wrong.. also kill those taliban leader who only want to kill more and more innocent people... but we should have a dialogue with them....

sure! keep killing the people with terrorist and keep dialogue with them. They have dishonor numbers of agreement but people like you are willing to be bite hundred time with these snakes.
Dialogue with mad dogs is a capital error in this war.

 

[Awesome]

Miltants’ ideology
By Editorial
Even more than the militant’s twisted understanding of religion, what is more worrying is that he had this conversation with an employee of the army. We have frequently heard about the radicalisation of the army and here we seem to have proof. Although the scholar frequently challenges and disagrees with the militant, that is not enough. The army needs to explain why one of its employees was in contact with a militant. We are supposed to be at war with the militants, not discussing the finer points of religion with them on their own terms. And the war, we should always remember, has been declared by the militants, not us.[/SIZE][/FONT]

I disagree with the blue part, if we can bring this fight off the battle ground and on to the debate podium that would be in the better interest of Pakistan. Which may be an explanation on what the Arm was doing here.

In essence I believe in some method where we can tame the militants rather than eliminate them. Heavy handedness of Musharraf proved ineffectual, Kayani's focus operations were a lot more successful and he has produced good results there by going after the specific no-hope cases.

 

[muse]

In essence I believe in some method where we can tame the militants rather than eliminate them.

Presumably they are amenable to civil decorous debates? Which is why in their own words, they have the right to kill any who disagree with their vision?? Remember, they imposed this war on us, not us on them.

You are a decent human being, my impression of the overwhelming number of members here, is that they are, for the most part decent human beings - and it is a fact, that we view the world through the lens of our values, our orientation - and sometimes, we use "corrective lens" when our lens fail us.

In this instance, the ideologues of the Islamist movement are not open to persuasion, the peace they seek, is the peace of the grave - lets give them their peace and move on with building Pakistan.

 

[muse]

There is no more a single authority. Entire KPK is rife with small factions that work independently. The TTP is often quick to take responsibilities, but they let the TTP do so (take responsibility of the attacks) only for their own take in the looted arsenal and tax (ransom) distribution. (That is why every major organization wants complete control of Kohat - source of weapons and ration that can easily be captured at that crucial tunnel).

Otherwise, these numerous factions keep forming and disappearing all the time. They change shape so fast, by the end of the talks, some other group would be in control.

Even now, the entire TTP is shrinking rapidly, but attacks are going on with the same intensity.

So the question remains - whom would you hold your talks with?

I think your focus is on the wrong thing, you are missing the forest for the trees --- It's the ideology, basically Saudi Wahabi/Salafi ideology, that should be the focus - sectarian groups and TTP, Al-Qaida, Lashkar of this and Jaish of that - All these groups have two things in common, Saudi ideology and Saudi money.

Now of course we have to politic and diplomatic and cannot use the qualifiers I have used above, but focus on the ideology, that's the real enemy, that's what is animating them.