DEFENCE REFORM REPORT by Presidency of TÜRKİYE

[Babur Han]

Actually too many things left for AC , but until 2020s we will able to complete these. I wish it have been only about aselan's responsibility to fullfill needs, but unfortunately not.
Unless we design our own LHD , honestly i dont think we will capability of building aircraft carrier before than 2030s. If LHD tender is going how it is now, it will be in the same way like said in previous one.

You mean the Second LHD after Levent Class(Juan Carlos) must be designed in Turkey to pave the Way for an future Aircraft Carrier ?

 

[ANMDT]

You mean the Second LHD after Levent Class(Juan Carlos) must be designed in Turkey to pave the Way for an future Aircraft Carrier ?

I mean 1st LPD , Levent class , it can be designed by Turkish engineers with some consultancy from experienced companies, instead of directly achieving design from Navantia and building it in Sedef Shipyard which has no design ability .

Without experience of designing LHD , there will be only blueprints of one ship which doesnt mean anything to design AC,or better LHD ,to be LHA( assault ship). There are blueprints which bought by our shipyards, and i have seen several of them ,but when it comes to design there is noone to do.

 

[Babur Han]

Designing an AC is a complicated Matter on the other Side turkish influence in Africa is inreasing and we even have interests in south Asia ! By Operation far away from turkish Soil Levent Clas with 16 F-35B will not have enough self Protection Capabillity, only enough to Supprot a Landing Operation !

If no AC is available I see a need to prepare Infrastructure on Airbases in Morocco and Oman in order to deploy and Support TurAF Fighter Jets in an event of Crisis !

 

[xxxKULxxx]

Guys i want to add some other comments on the subject 'state of the art aircraft carrier'...

I mentioned past, current and short term programs... Now think about all experiences(including every kind of XP)....

Now, i don't expect us to have an aircraft carrier before 2030...

As you know for nearly 10 years we are investing so much money for indigenous defence products... We are working on various kind of platforms, systems, subsytems.. For land, air, naval & space.... We really pay huge money for these... I'm sure there is a huge amount of secret funds too...

Now let's jump to 2030... Till 2030 most of platforms,systems,subsystems will be delivered to the army... In all fields that i mentioned... Now think... After these program finished our economical investment power will be free for the future programs(after 2030 programs)...

Attack helicopters, MBTs, MİLGEM BLOCK I & II & III, TF-2000, Long/Medium/Short Air Defence Missile Systems, LHD/LPD, Assault Boats, NTP Boats(Already finished), Coast Guard Ships(Already finished), LCTs(Already finished), LSTs, support ships, U-214 TNs, various land platforms, MPT-76, Satellite Launch Base, ANKA & ANKA variants and other various UAVs, LCAC, HÜRKUŞ B,C even D, Domestic Multi-purpose Helicopter, some Satellites, various weapon systems & munitions, countless subsystems, softwares, simulators... So on... These cost huge amount of money... By 2030 we will nearly stop paying money for these huge list of products' productions... We will have quite good money to spend...

Also till 2030 our defence investment budget will rise... So in 2030 our platform needs will decrease too much... So these money so powerfully will be spent for specific platforms(like possible aircraft carrier) and deeply for technology...

Also so much money will turn back to our companies by exports... And our companies will use this money for R&D... They will not buy Ferrari for (let's say) all ASELSAN employees...

Which huge programs will be on by 2030 ?.. As i remember.. T/F-X, MİLDEN, Future satellite programs... Any other huge programs ?.. I really ask it... Maybe i couldn't remember them...

Also by 2030 we will have engines too...

Again i say... Our first aircraft carrier will be a state of the art vessel...

 

[xenon54 out]

Designing an AC is a complicated Matter on the other Side turkish influence in Africa is inreasing and we even have interests in south Asia ! By Operation far away from turkish Soil Levent Clas with 16 F-35B will not have enough self Protection Capabillity, only enough to Supprot a Landing Operation !

Well we must also consider that you need a whole Armada to protect the AC since its itself pretty much defenseless, so its also a question of cost and profitability.

 

[Babur Han]

Well we must also consider that you need a whole Armada to protect the AC since its itself pretty much defenseless, so its also a question of cost and profitability.

Yes I Know !

 

[Babur Han]

Here for example a french CSG:

France
The only serving French carrier is the Charles de Gaulle, which also serves as the flagship of the Marine Nationale. The Carrier Battle Group (Groupe Aéronaval, GAN, in French) of the Force d'Action Navale is usually composed, in addition to the aircraft carrier, of:

• a carrier air wing (Groupe Aérien Embarqué, GAE, in French), a complement composed of about 60 aircraft:
  • Rafale F3 and Super Étendard (up to 30)
  • E-2C Hawkeye (2)
  • SA365 Dauphin (3) for RESCO and EC725 Caracal for CSAR (2)
• one Rubis-class submarine
• two anti-submarine destroyers (currently Tourville or Georges Leygues class)
• one or two anti-air destroyers (Horizon or Cassard class)
• one stealth frigate in forward patrol (usually a La Fayette class)
• one supply ship

This group is commanded by a rear admiral (contre-amiral, in French) on board the aircraft carrier. The commanding officer of the air group (usually a capitaine de frégate—equivalent to commander) is subordinate to the commanding officer of the aircraft carrier, a senior captain. The escort destroyers (called frigates in the French denomination) are commanded by more junior captains.

Carrier battle group - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[ANMDT]

Designing an AC is a complicated Matter on the other Side turkish influence in Africa is inreasing and we even have interests in south Asia ! By Operation far away from turkish Soil Levent Clas with 16 F-35B will not have enough self Protection Capabillity, only enough to Supprot a Landing Operation !

If no AC is available I see a need to prepare Infrastructure on Airbases in Morocco and Oman in order to deploy and Support TurAF Fighter Jets in an event of Crisis !

Our style is more like western rather than eastern in design of support class vessels, for example,there arent many of domestic weapon on AC, LHD , while eastern , Russia, operates mix of Destroyer- AC , also i have seen some LHD- destroyer in japanese.

As @xenon54 mentioned,usually a carrier battle group is constructed , with 1-2 heavy AAW, 1-2 Auxillary , 2-3 AsuW-ASW . Self protection isnt that crucial , while its important an AC should have all ways of communication , and management of fleet as flagship.

16 F35B would make a better sense than a base in morrocco , we can sail it anywhere with a fleet , so far i know ,eventhough its claimed in contrast, within details of RFP document for LHD,its indicated ship to have jet-blast resistance coating on the deck, might be a sign for F-35B .

 

[Babur Han]

16 F35B would make a better sense than a base in morrocco , we can sail it anywhere with a fleet , so far i know ,eventhough its claimed in contrast, within details of RFP document for LHD,its indicated ship to have jet-blast resistance coating on the deck, might be a sign for F-35B .

A LHD with 16 F-35 is better than nothing and allready enough to Project Power in the eastern mediterran ! The Influence of Turkey in Africa is increasing and the Goverment Plan to Invest in Africas Energy and Mining. For the Trade with Arab Countries, sub-saharan Africa, Latin America and Asia Turkey is hardly depend on open Sea Lanes also to import Goods and raw Raw Materials. There is also an interest to Connect Central Asian Turkic Brother States with Highways, Train and Pipeline to south Asia that they become more independent to winding up their Trade independent from Russia !

In long Term Turkey need to Project Power to the Gulf of Oman and the straight of Gibraltar, the possible Adverseries in this Regions have also Advanced Fleets of Combat Aircraft !

 

[Babur Han]

I mean 1st LPD , Levent class , it can be designed by Turkish engineers with some consultancy from experienced companies, instead of directly achieving design from Navantia and building it in Sedef Shipyard which has no design ability .

Without experience of designing LHD , there will be only blueprints of one ship which doesnt mean anything to design AC,or better LHD ,to be LHA( assault ship). There are blueprints which bought by our shipyards, and i have seen several of them ,but when it comes to design there is noone to do.

As far I know Juan Carlos was chosen over the LHD designed by RMK Marine, because of Koc Support for Gezi Protestors.

 

[ANMDT]

As far I know Juan Carlos was chosen over the LHD designed by RMK Marine, because of Koc Support for Gezi Protestors.

During tender of LHD , RMK was already awarded with 6 milgem , so in that moment RMK havent played strong in Tender, also shifted to 3rd place directly by SSM. Meeting intensed on Sedef and Desan . Because SSM doesnt want to award 2 tenders to one shipyard, desires to get 2 shipyard to have knowledge and influence on international market.

RMK was more willing to build LHD then milgem, unfortunately LHD is given to Sedef , the worst and most expensive choose, and after that Sedef began to bitching out for Milgems, since LHD is to be laid 4-5 years later, they planned to launch all milgems until LHD's keel laid.

Actually all these were planned, Sedef was so sure with their design ( thanks to their connection to government) . So while RMK got milgems, they havent joined in tender ( dont care what they say like they werent invited , they had been in fact ). And with the advantage of Gezi ,Sedef played card on Milgems.

For the moment,i wont get suprised if Sedef wins the tender of milgem too

 

[Hakan]

Turkey doesn't need bases anywhere or an aircraft carrier. America is already patrolling the seas for western aligned countries like Turkey. France and Britain have aircraft carriers because they still have overseas territories and they have to protect their oil companies etc. Besides Turkey doesn't have enough money for these sorts of things.

I don't see why Turkey would even have bases overseas. For what? Well maybe somalia so that it has influence over what comes through the suez canal in case of war but other than that it is not needed. Even somalie isn't well suited for that. Djibouti is where you want to be.

 

[Hurshid Celebi]

Time changes first Turkish military base outside Country boarders ! In Katar 3.000 soldiers will be deployed.


Aircraft carrier with jump ski is coming until 2019 ! Budget is 1.2 Billion USD without F-35 airplanes !


I believe it will be a carrier Task force , with modified Juan Carlos carrier vehicle, 2-3 Milgem Extended, 1 Sub modernized U-209, 6 F-35 (STOL), 6 Atak Helos and UAV's onboard !