Defence council to green light local trainer today

[AMCA]

So the IAF should have done nothing as Deepaks were falling out of the skies and taking the lives of budding pilots with them? Is this what you are saying?

It's very easy to blame the IAF but they are professionals and do their job with what they have. There was no (and STILL is no) home-grown BTT in India and thus they HAD to go for the PC-7. All this time and HAL is still yet to even fabricate the HTT-40, if it was up to them the IAF would STILL have NO BTT. The significance of this omission cannot be overstated- it would have CRIPPLED the IAF.

You still haven't rebuked my points on the economics of operating two different BTT types for the same role brother, I understand the ideology behind what you are saying and in an ideal world I would agree but this is the real world and one has to be pragmatic. Blind nationalism would have seen many more young pilots killed or crippled to date.

The same applies to the Navy. They could have easily replaced their ageing Soviet and British era warships with Imported weapons, instead they chose to work closely with the shipyards and made them deliver. Why cant the Army or the IAF work closely with the Indian Industry?

 

[SP!TF!R3]

The problem with IA and IAF is their short sightness.They always try to find a solution when problem is already in hand.Eg.After 2 deaceds or so,IAF should try to take this idea that we should start finding an alternative for AJT Hawk.If HAL/ADA and other agencies takes into this process,They might deliver a fine replacement when it'll be time to retire Hawk.instead of that,they'll try to find a solution when Hawk is already has completed their life.And when Hal or other agencies will make a little delay or such,it'll become extremely critical and everybody will blame HAL/ADA for that,instead of IAF's indicision.

HAL IJT project was started in 1997 and first flight was conducted in 2003.But Kiran already became over 35+ years old platform during late 90s.IJT's problem stuck after IOC,which is really unfortunate.Possibly it'll have to go for some design change.But when it is already near completion,IAF asked them to stop work on this project.But is there any replacement in hand??NO.so why don't continue with the only option they have??And what they expected??within 10 years,they'll get a platform up and running?If they don't take into account the time which will be wasted for some rectification.rework,then I question their professionalism altogether.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Since India is likely to get this right than other advanced aircrafts ..
If we cannot make basic trainer right , how will we make AMCA ?

Moot point. India has designed and developed the LCA in-house- it is not like they are going from a BTT to AMCA. The AMCA will develop using the LCA as a foundation, not having the BTT developed is meaningless, do you really think there will be lessons from the HTT-40 applied on the AMCA??

Two types of basic trainer will waste some money, but in long run, it will save a lot.
Exports too

Potentially, but potentially not. Pilatus were willing to set up a production line in India and localise the sourcing of spares this would have been a far more economic solution than inducting ANOTHER type of BTT (along with the costs of developing it).

Another thing is when HTT 40 ready, IAF will assess both pilatus and HTT 40
And if one of the two can take up intermediate jet training , it will be promoted for that role..

How can a basic turboprop trainer be used for intermediate jet training?

Where you claim that trainers should be replaced pulling IAF lines. why IAF so eager to change basic trainer while they are still flying MIG21.....

It is far easier (and cheaper) to induct a BTT than a multi-role fighter jet. The MiG-21s are still flying for two reasons:

1)LCA is behind schedule
2) The MMRCA saga is dragging still

I am not saying HAL isn't at fault, but if we really want to develop as a nation we can not keep on importing every thing.

Pilatus were willing to set up a production line in India. This is not "Make in India"?

The same applies to the Navy. They could have easily replaced their ageing Soviet and British era warships with Imported weapons, instead they chose to work closely with the shipyards and made them deliver. Why cant the Army or the IAF work closely with the Indian Industry?

True to an extent BUT it is FAR easier to make a hull then it is to develop an advanced aircraft. The IN still imports the majority of its weapons and sensors. But I will take your point, the IN is a more technical organisation by its very nature and is more forward-thinking as a result. The IA and IAF could learn a thing or two from them.

HAL IJT project was started in 1997 and first flight was conducted in 2003.But Kiran already became over 35+ years old platform during late 90s.IJT's problem stuck after IOC,which is really unfortunate.Possibly it'll have to go for some design change.But when it is already near completion,IAF asked them to stop work on this project.But is there any replacement in hand??NO.so why don't continue with the only option they have??And what they expected??within 10 years,they'll get a platform up and running?If they don't take into account the time which will be wasted for some rectification.rework,then I question their professionalism altogether.

The IJT project was initiated during a time when Hawk AJT talks were stuck. Now the Hawk MK.132 and PC-7 Mk.2 are in service the need for the IJT is negligible (if not non-existent) hence why the IAF has lost all interest in it. Tell me what role will it serve in the IAF's 3 stage training program? What benefit can the subsonic IJT impart that the subsonic Hawk AJT can't?

 

[AMCA]

True to an extent BUT it is FAR easier to make a hull then it is to develop an advanced aircraft. The IN still imports the majority of its weapons and sensors. But I will take your point, the IN is a more technical organisation by its very nature and is more forward-thinking as a result. The IA and IAF could learn a thing or two from them.

It is far easier to develop a hull is because the Navy has created an Industrial base to support its requirement. You could have said the same today when it comes to fabricating an aircraft's Air frame had the IAF taken interest like the Navy did.

 

[Indian Patriot]

HAL should admit that making an aircraft is beyond their capability. They should tie up with a senior foreign partner and learn the basics. This obsession with swadeshi - LCA, Arjun, INSAS, Pinaka - and now the HAL trainers is seriously compromising national security.

 

[GORKHALI]

HAL should admit that making an aircraft is beyond their capability. They should tie up with a senior foreign partner and learn the basics. This obsession with swadeshi - LCA, Arjun, INSAS, Pinaka - and now the HAL trainers is seriously compromising national security.

Do you always BS like this or you got something else in your Inventory. Pinaka Inducted since 1998 and New version is advance user trial. Arjun Mk2 is something govt will push after successful completion of Trial.Insas is on the verge of Phase out after serving for 2 decades.LCA is again will be inducted in huge number sooner or later while LCH is in the verge of getting IOC before this financial year.So keep your rant to yourself and troll sinewhere else.