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Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) clears projects worth about Rs. 80,000 crore

What Indian platforms are there comparable to the PHALCON? NONE. Not for another 7-8 years at least.

As for AARs, forgive me, I must have missed the news that India now made wide-bodied civilian airliners o_O.

Again the AH-64E and CH-47F are must buys and Indian industry has nothing comparable to them so they'll be bought from the US.

Listen, "make in India" is all well and good but you need to be PRAGMATIC, it's not that India has had the capability to build cutting edge tech across the board for years just the evil greedy Indian generals refused to buy from home. In many areas India just isn't (right now) up to building the very best equipment that the Indian military needs. Modi is going to be made well aware of this and will clear these deals of that have no doubt.

There is RTA, Avro replacement and MTA. I know the time frame is 2020 and beyond but that is what the govt. should do / might do.

As for AH and CH, the govt. might look at alternate plans to satisfy the requirement. One that uses Made in Indian maal.

If we cannot have cutting edge, then we compensate with numbers. Quantity has a quality of its own.
 
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No chance whatsoever. a) the Rafales (apart from the initial 18) WILL be built in India (just like P-75(I) that the DAC has cleared today). b) more importantly, there are ZERO Indian firms making equipment up to the standards of the CH-47F, AH-64E, PHALCON AWACS and A330 MRTT.

Modi is serious about "make in India" but he is not stupid, he's not about to cut off his nose to spite his face. He knows that to have a strong Indian military, India needs to buy certain equipment from abroad. That is just a reality right now, the situation may be different in a decade or so but not in the immediate future.

I have no doubt all of the above will be cleared this finical year.


alos i think it makes sense to go for Made in india for systems that will be used in large nos i..e LOH/LUH now the projected requirements will be around 1000 nos over next 15 years so it will be indian

while chinook etc may not be more than 100-150 over next 10 years so doosent make sense to setup infra and expense for that

spike too is a temporary purchase - stop gap arangement - NAG ATGM is on the way in next 3-4 years

by the time spike deliveries will be completed and ToT complete we will most likely have Nag ATGm going intp production

Nag / Spike will give us 2 product lines
major orders nos will go to Nag + some orders will be given to Spike to maitian different product line + production line iopen
 
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And how is a submarine going to identify and track a ship from 300 km ? :coffee:

Sub can hear a ship miles away through Sonar..

  1. How does sonar work?
Sonar (SOund NAvigation and Ranging) gives our submarines virtual "eyes" underwater. Sonar is used primarily to detect ships and submarines. There are two types of sonar: active and passive. When using active sonar, a submarine transmits a pulse of sound into the water and listens for how long it takes to bounce off another object such as a ship or submarine and return. This gives information about that ship or submarine's direction and distance away. Unfortunately, if a submarine uses active sonar, all the other sonar-capable ships and submarines in the area would know that the submarine is there. Since the primary advantage that submarines enjoy is stealth (other ships don't know where they are), most submarines rarely use active sonar. Passive sonar listens for the sounds coming from other ships and submarines. When a submarine uses passive sonar, it is able to obtain information about other ships and submarines without revealing its own position. Like detectives examining a crime scene, skilled sonar operators can determine such things as ship speed, number of propellers and even the exact kind of ship just by listening to the sounds.
 
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Indian navy usually insists on shudh desi Indian wives for its younger officers. Its the older staff who had Russian wives. :D
commodore-sukhjinder-singh.jpg

That's because now our ties with Russians are not close as much as it was years back... or else trust me from Young to old IN personals would be having Russian Beauties
 
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Stop maligning the Indian armed forces and talk in specifics with FACTS backing you up. IF, IF Indian products were up to the standards of their international counterparts then don't you think the IAF would LOVE to buy from India? They are bigger patriots than you and would more than enjoy having a home built/designed product in their inventory both from a pride and practical perspective but that's not where the Indian military industrial complex is today so purchases will have to be made from abroad. No two ways about it.


What Italian products have the IAF ordered?

LOL. That bit was about Rajiv gandhi the pilot marrying Sonia gandhi. ..... know about sense of humour ? :P

So far IAF has not demonstrated any love for Indian maal. There is nothing to malign, only uncomfortable facts. The Indian military complex is not developed BECAUSE of neglect by the IAF.
 
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while chinook etc may not be more than 100-150 over next 10 years so doosent make sense to setup infra and expense for that
100-150 is VERY optimistic, I'll be surprised if orders exceed 50. So yes, it doesn't make sense to set up entire production lines for such limited numbers.

alos i think it makes sense to go for Made in india for systems that will be used in large nos i..e LOH/LUH now the projected requirements will be around 1000 nos over next 15 years so it will be indian
LUH/LOH requirement for all three services is around 500 in reality, maybe a few hundred more if the CAPFs and ICG get interested. And here, the GoI made a sensible call and stipulated all the foreign designed helos would be made in India because the order will be quite sizeable.

There is RTA, Avro replacement and MTA. I know the time frame is 2020 and beyond but that is what the govt. should do / might do.
RTA, Avro replacment (likely to be the C-27J/C-295) and MTA are all FAR too small for either the AWACS OR AAR role. Additionally the IAF has been asking for an additional 2 PHALCON for years now, even if (which they aren't) the above were up to the job of supporting the PHALCON systems and radar, the IAF can't wait another decade or so.

And sorry to burst your bubble, but I'll do it now and prepare you for the shock but for the AWACS (India) project the DRDO/CABS are working on to build an AWACS comparable to the PHALCON system, the plane for that WILL be foreign built/designed (likely the 787 or A330).


It's called pragmatism and an efficient use of resources.

As for AH and CH, the govt. might look at alternate plans to satisfy the requirement. One that uses Made in Indian maal.
What alternate plan? Stop dreaming mate.

If we cannot have cutting edge, then we compensate with numbers. Quantity has a quality of its own.
India needs both quantity and quality to deal with potential adversaries like China and Pakistan. As such it needs to get the very best stuff like AH-64E and CH-47F.

Following a quantity only approach is foolish- you'll never beat China at the numbers game.

So far IAF has not demonstrated any love for Indian maal. There is nothing to malign, only uncomfortable facts. The Indian military complex is not developed BECAUSE of neglect by the IAF.
Really? They've been nurturing the LCA for a long time now and are certainly excited about inducting that plane. Additionally they are very pleased with the ALH and have ordered it in large numbers- an example that when the Indian equipment is up to standard the Indian Mil are more than happy to buy it.

Sir, don't delude yourself,

not needed now we have own domestic systems
Bharat Forge Ultra light howitzer in the same M777 class will be up for trials in next 3-4 months
If anyone thinks this company with almost zero experience in weapon design/manufacture is going to develop a product comparable to one built by the world's largest defence entity, they are smoking some strong stuff.

The ULH from Bharat Forge won't be ready for induction for at least another 3-4 years and won't even be in the same league as the M777.

The M777 deal still makes sense, if only the issues with it could be cleared up.

Arjun Catapult

Have you seen the state of that? Looks like something out of the 1930s, not exactly "cutting edge".


The only arty systems worth having that are made in India are by private firms that have entered into JVs with foreign firms and are offering foreign designs.


I'll reiterate- the Indian Military can only induct Indian built equipment when it is up to the standards of the international community even the likes of the US and Russia import military equipment from abroad when it is specialist and their foreign firms don't make anything superior. It has to be about buying the BEST, otherwise it is a slippery slope and before you know it your military is unfit to do the job your ask of them.
 
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Really? They've been nurturing the LCA for a long time now and are certainly excited about inducting that plane. Additionally they are very pleased with the ALH and have ordered it in large numbers- an example that when the Indian equipment is up to standard the Indian Mil are more than happy to buy it.

IAF nurturing LCA - come on thats gotta be the joke of the millenia

if ti wasnt of the Navy IAF would have buried the LCA project long back

the LCA is here today only because of the Navy

IAF could have easily ordered more of Mk1 if they are serious about it but no they have stalled the induction for Mk2 lollipop

Even in case of ALh they have not done any favour many heavy and long rotors helos are facing problems of clearance around landing areas and hence they are finding ALH to be good and hence being ordered
 
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IAF nurturing LCA - come on thats gotta be the joke of the millenia

if ti wasnt of the Navy IAF would have buried the LCA project long back

the LCA is here today only because of the Navy

IAF could have easily ordered more of Mk1 if they are serious about it but no they have stalled the induction for Mk2 lollipop

Even in case of ALh they have not done any favour many heavy and long rotors helos are facing problems of clearance around landing areas and hence they are finding ALH to be good and hence being ordered
You're reading from a very typical "IAF only loves foreign kit" script that I've heard repeated again and again and doesn't look any more credible today than it did the first time I heard it.
 
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What Indian platforms are there comparable to the PHALCON? NONE. Not for another 7-8 years at least.

As for AARs, forgive me, I must have missed the news that India now made wide-bodied civilian airliners o_O.

Again the AH-64E and CH-47F are must buys and Indian industry has nothing comparable to them so they'll be bought from the US.

Listen, "make in India" is all well and good but you need to be PRAGMATIC, it's not that India has had the capability to build cutting edge tech across the board for years just the evil greedy Indian generals refused to buy from home. In many areas India just isn't (right now) up to building the very best equipment that the Indian military needs. Modi is going to be made well aware of this and will clear these deals of that have no doubt.
Hey bro it seems,IA orders the Spike ER version,as they going to fit the missile on new acquired BMP 2 which is also cleared today.
 
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If anyone thinks this company with almost zero experien

wce in weapon design/manufacture is going to develop a product comparable to one built by the world's largest defence entity, they are smoking some strong stuff.

The ULH from Bharat Forge won't be ready for induction for at least another 3-4 years and won't even be in the same league as the M777.

The M777 deal still makes sense, if only the issues with it could be cleared up.

M777 is not a cutting edge desing it is decades old design with almost no evelution over time and the co has already stopped production - line closed no orders by other users

wether you think so or otherwise dosent matter

what matters is the gun performance in the field -

Bharat Forge has offered thier guns for trials the IA will try it in ranges if the performance is satisfactory they will order it whats the problem ?

Have you seen the state of that? Looks like something out of the 1930s, not exactly "cutting edge".


only if looks can be called cutting edge and not performance

are we bothered about performance or looks ?

it is still better than towed guns



The only arty systems worth having that are made in India are by private firms that have entered into JVs with foreign firms and are offering foreign designs.

best


I'll reiterate- the Indian Military can only induct Indian built equipment when it is up to the standards of the international community even the likes of the US and Russia import military equipment from abroad when it is specialist and their foreign firms don't make anything superior. It has to be about buying the BEST, otherwise it is a slippery slope and before you know it your military is unfit to do the job your ask of them.

winning the war is not about having the best,it is about staying a step ahead of your enemy

it is like a game of chess a mind game

everyone know what and how many weapons you have

what mattters is - what is used to achieve what purpose where on the field at what time[/quote]
 
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Stop maligning the Indian armed forces and talk in specifics with FACTS backing you up. IF, IF Indian products were up to the standards of their international counterparts then don't you think the IAF would LOVE to buy from India? They are bigger patriots than you and would more than enjoy having a home built/designed product in their inventory both from a pride and practical perspective but that's not where the Indian military industrial complex is today so purchases will have to be made from abroad. No two ways about it.


What Italian products have the IAF ordered?
Mate thanks for defending the honor of our Armed Forces.I am really getting tired hearing these sorts of things from our fellow countrymen lately:hitwall:.These people just don't understand the fact that it's the Armed Forces who are holding this country in one piece otherwise India would have been balkanised into a large no. of individual countries by now!!
 
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So as it stands (more details awaited):

-321 Spike ATGM Launchers and 8,000+ Missiles (including relevant training apparatus)- GREAT news, very much needed for years now.
-363 APCs, supposedly from OFB, no exact details on the model but I assume the MPV- pretty disappointing because I'd have hoped they go for a newer and more capable product from an Indian private firm like Tata or Mahindra.
-Mini Subs for MARCOs- good stuff.
-12 Do-228 for the IN, a welcome boost for the IN's MPA fleet. I wonder if these are Do-228NG a/c.
-6 new SSKs under the P-75(I) project for which the RFP has been released. Many are assuming that this news out of the DAC means the subs will be built imminently- this is false, this is still the early stages of the selection process. At best we are 2-3 years away from a winner emerging so about 6+ years away from the first sub entering service with the IN. Welcome news because action- any action- was needed on this front. Would have been pretty pleased had the MoD also extended the current Scorpene order to 9 or taken the French up on their offer to build new SSKs on a fast track basis.

Still, in only their 5th month in office the new GoI is doing a pretty decent job on the procurement front, I don't remember DACs meeting this often (seems to be once a month right now) under the UPA and certainly weren't clearing deals at this rate.

There are still many large deals on the table though:

-Rafale
-CH-47F
-AH-64E
-A330 MRTT
-2 follow-on A-50EI PHALCONS

Interestingly all of the above are for the IAF, but it does seem the list of pending deals is getting smaller and smaller as time goes by- one way or another.
I thought Chinook and apache were already cleared!
 
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RTA, Avro replacment (likely to be the C-27J/C-295) and MTA are all FAR too small for either the AWACS OR AAR role. Additionally the IAF has been asking for an additional 2 PHALCON for years now, even if (which they aren't) the above were up to the job of supporting the PHALCON systems and radar, the IAF can't wait another decade or so.

And sorry to burst your bubble, but I'll do it now and prepare you for the shock but for the AWACS (India) project the DRDO/CABS are working on to build an AWACS comparable to the PHALCON system, the plane for that WILL be foreign built/designed (likely the 787 or A330).

It's called pragmatism and an efficient use of resources.
What alternate plan? Stop dreaming mate.

IAF will always demand more and more. That is their job, or so they seem to think. Even if DRDO builds an AWAC it will be on their platform of choice and ONLY when Indian options are not available. That is just stating the obvious.

Under the new govt. the large numbers will ONLY come when its Make in India. Of that I am sure. Now THAT is being pragmatic and making efficient use of resources. Not pandering to IAF narrow minded pursuit of foreign maals.

Alternatives come up when you work towards building an alternative, not by wishful thinking.

India needs both quantity and quality to deal with potential adversaries like China and Pakistan. As such it needs to get the very best stuff like AH-64E and CH-47F.

Following a quantity only approach is foolish- you'll never beat China at the numbers game.

We can never beat china even with AH and CH. Idea is to build reasonable deterrence so that actual war becomes unthinkable. Numbers will very well help us do that as well as give impetus to domestic industry to grow and mature and thus feeding a self sustaining cycle of internal growth and consumption.

Really? They've been nurturing the LCA for a long time now and are certainly excited about inducting that plane. Additionally they are very pleased with the ALH and have ordered it in large numbers- an example that when the Indian equipment is up to standard the Indian Mil are more than happy to buy it.

Sir, don't delude yourself,

Total nonsense. IAF has NEVER nurtured LCA. They have only started doing so in the last few years. That too ONLY after public opinion started going against them. The credit for LCA goes to DRDO. Same goes for ALH. IAF goes for Indian maal as LAST choice. Not as FIRST choice. Stop deluding yourself that this is not true.

Mate thanks for defending the honor of our Armed Forces.I am really getting tired hearing these sorts of things from our fellow countrymen lately:hitwall:.These people just don't understand the fact that it's the Armed Forces who are holding this country in one piece otherwise India would have been balkanised into a large no. of individual countries by now!!

The credit for holding our Nation goes to EVERYBODY. Everybody does their part. There is a time for Rhetoric's. Its not time yet.
 
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I thought Chinook and apache were already cleared!
There's a difference between clearing them and signing on the dotted line (still not done yet).

Mate thanks for defending the honor of our Armed Forces.I am really getting tired hearing these sorts of things from our fellow countrymen lately:hitwall:.These people just don't understand the fact that it's the Armed Forces who are holding this country in one piece otherwise India would have been balkanised into a large no. of individual countries by now!!
Blame the media, they have done a pretty good job of running the name of the Indian armed forces through the mud through the past few years for issues that are often completely out of their control. Now people are looking to Modi to correct all of India's issues and looking past that on the military side it will be the MILITARY that addresses the situation not a politician.
 
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