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Decision time for Indian attack helicopter tender

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I hope the number rise....22 is too less for a country like India.
Secondly, our helicopter industry has received a great amount of thrust...

SAAB to form JV with HAL for airborne e-warfare system

there are many more similar types of tie-up which will result in development of sate-of-the art sub systems for a helicopter...

Tata, Mahindra and many more are coming in this business with tie-up from various helicopter giants like Sikorsky, Mil etc...
 
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I thought India drafted her requirement for 1.4 billion dollar which included spares, weapons and helicopters. I think if government has not sanction the money, then how can IAF set up a package that they want ??

Wasn't that the price that is quoted for the Apaches including weapons and spares? As far as I remember the helicopter budget of IAF was way less at the begining.
 
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Watch these and decide yourself!!!!!!! And Comment also.!!!!
 
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U.S. Army begins production of new AH-64 Apache Block III

The U.S. Army (U.S. Army), along with Boeing, began manufacturing the fuselage of its next generation of helicopters AH-64 Apache Block III.

The new attack helicopter will be built with a more powerful engine, improved avionics, improved data transfer network, and greater maneuverability when compared to current models.

The first Block III helicopters of the model will leave the production line in the third quarter of this year, said Lt. Col. Dan Bailey, product manager for the program. The first two aircraft will be used for development purposes, and the next five after that will be used to train the first unit equipped, he said.

Aircraft Apache Block III aircraft will begin to be deployed to Army units by the end of 2012, Bailey said.

In total, the Army plans to buy 690 Block III Apache helicopters by 2026 at a production rate of about two battalions per year, beginning in fiscal 2013. Of this amount, 643 will be re-manufactured aircraft and 56 are "new aircraft," said Bailey.

As part of its preparations for the Apache Block III, the program completed a "statement of logistics" in March, designed to show that the helicopters can be serviced even in shifts. The demonstration showed the avionics, wiring, gear boxes, the seat of the cockpit and electronics, among other things.

"We went through all these tasks to find the problems and things that needed to be corrected. This demonstrates that the aircraft will be sustainable and can be maintained in the future, thus relieving the workload on the warfighter, "said Bailey.

"We thought it would take a total of three months for this, but finished the first three weeks and find that only two percent of the general tasks needed improvements."

The Apache Block III features a 701D motor with rotor blades of composite material, the data network has improved, and received new avionics communication.

"The new engine 701D is a significant increase in reliability based on new flooring, new metal and increased airflow allowing you to operate at higher temperatures," said Bailey.


Exército dos EUA inicia produção do novo helicóptero AH-64 Apache Block III


PUB_AH-64D_Versions_lg.jpg
 
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My sources tell me, we are going for Apache. They also confirmed that order of 22 will be followed by bigger order.
 
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My sources tell me, we are going for Apache. They also confirmed that order of 22 will be followed by bigger order.

Any other infos? What roles they are meant for, or anything about customisations (Israeli, or British modifications)?
 
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My sources tell me, we are going for Apache. They also confirmed that order of 22 will be followed by bigger order.

I do hope you right although this was my suspicion all along. Some credible links/sources would be nice!
 
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Yeah, u r right that it has a lower max. altitude but it has got better speed, but then again Mil Mi-28 loses out on combat radius that too by almost half, yet again it boasts of better lift and better stability due to its 5-bladed against the Apache's 4-bladed rotor, but has lower useful weight as compared to Apache by almost ~800kgs.... (Data from Wikipedia.... I cannot guarantee it's reliability)

Buddy, frankly speaking, the more I'm getting involved with this thread, the more I'm getting to know about both of 'em.... Both the Helicopters have their set of pros and cons and reputation, as well as the reputation of their countries at stake. May the best Attack Helicopter win.... 22, I guess, is the number and I don't want to fight above it any more..... cheers!!!

BTW.... This design/concept of the pusher propeller is in trial with many International Companies.... I hope that they are made available for military use ASAP.....

Also, the point you made about Indians building their own Helicopter has my full consideration. This sector of our country is evolving fast and our products are also excellent and affordable and we have a cleaner reputation as against China (which has a reputation of modifying or reverse-engineering Russian Products ) and we definitely should go for our own choppers because, oh they are so awesome, so far.....

If you can, then please tell me about CAIC WZ-10 with data or links and how does it stack up against our own homemade attack heli LCH!!!!!!



Why do you care compare China by stating how clean our reputation is? It doesn't matter at the end of the day, because when they're is a war your reputation won't matter (look at indian history) it is the ability to produce weapons when nobody can help you due to a variety of reasons. Acknowledge that the CHinese have built a robust system and their reputation however unclean it may be as you suggested has no effect on its world standing in the world. In fact, in the states most folks are in awe of it and respect the Chinese, even fear. Take a cue from the military official who stated we should've been reverse engineering like the Chinese. What we did is a big blunder by not doing so. We Indians tend to live in a fantasy world. We need to wake up and deal with our perceived threats by going thru any means necessary to overcome any shortcomings, instead of blaming DRDO we should be helping them gain that specific of tech they lack or having difficulty mastering.


Our domestic industry is vital.....of course....and all steps should be taken to strengthen that first and foremost. We really need to take a page from the tamil tigers and how they started modifying and building fast attack craft which were far superior to anything we had. They sourced from anywhere they could and used whatever resources they had to do so....and the point is that they weren't even a country with immense capabilities like India.

AK Anthony is doing a good job but he needs to speed it up. I am not criticizing him I am pretty sure our military must have so much corruption ingrained into it, that he has to go thru everything with a fine comb in order to really make a difference for the future. If you don't believe me, just look at how long India politics allowed this corruption bill to NOT be passed. 47 long yrs! Its a damn shame and we cannot make no excuses for it. We really need to make our democracy streamlined and effective for the ppl instead of just claiming world's biggest democracy. Otherwise, we are going to suffer the same problems the West are facing it. We to be CREATIVE and it has to come from us.
 
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^^^^^ @axisofevil

Sir, I think u didn't get my point.... No doubt what you have mentioned is correct, however, my personal opinion is against reverse-engineering....
My statement was made against another comment and what I meant was that India should with all its human and material resources embark on the journey of local military equipment production....... When I said we have a cleaner image, I meant that this point would really help in international locally produced military equipment sales....... Its like majority of people prefer costlier/similarly-priced originals (that is Indian products) than cheaper "after-market upgraded ones" (Chinese, or simply Reverse Engineered ones).... Please don't provide me facts to prove me wrong because they (the Chinese) may seem to lead the race now but as soon as we strengthen our locally military equipment production, we will see that we have taken the lead because of our sheer technology, reputation and original, "as good or better than western" equipments that also happen to be cheaper and without unnecessary complex supply chains...... About reputation not helping in winning wars, I would say that you are forgetting vital & moral science, a good man always has a lot of good people to help him..... Take for example China, right now, who would come to China's help right now???? A few countries around may/may not help like Pakistan, Taiwan, Myanmar, North Korea, Sri Lanka, Nepal, Mongolia etc, may come to your mind but think of how many of these are trust-able, how many are powerful or what is their reputation among other nations???? Now,when it comes to India, we have the support and trust of Russia on one hand and on the other hand, though we lack trust, yet we are believed to be a very strategic position to counter China for NATO, and also we have good relations with many middle-eastern, African, and South- American Nations..... Also, the probability of participation of these nation in case of major conflicts is equally strong or weak for both nation, yet we boast of good support and international sympathy..... You get support either by creating fear or by gaining sympathy, the only difference being that the ones who come out of fear, may/may not help you and can even hurt when you grow weak whereas the ones who come out of sympathy are impelled to support and there is a whole difference in their approaches towards supporting a nation......

My vision might seem Utopian to you but believe me, you thoroughly go through my comment and you would be satisfied with majority of my opinions... You always need to understand that a war is never between two countries, even though he fighting part is carried out by two nations, it always affects international relation, sentiments, faith, bonding and trust among nations around the globe!!!!!

---------- Post added at 10:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:36 PM ----------

^^^^^ @axisofevil

Sir, I think u didn't get my point.... No doubt what you have mentioned is correct, however, my personal opinion is against reverse-engineering....
My statement was made against another comment and what I meant was that India should with all its human and material resources embark on the journey of local military equipment production....... When I said we have a cleaner image, I meant that this point would really help in international locally produced military equipment sales....... Its like majority of people prefer costlier/similarly-priced originals (that is Indian products) than cheaper "after-market upgraded ones" (Chinese, or simply Reverse Engineered ones).... Please don't provide me facts to prove me wrong because they (the Chinese) may seem to lead the race now but as soon as we strengthen our locally military equipment production, we will see that we have taken the lead because of our sheer technology, reputation and original, "as good or better than western" equipments that also happen to be cheaper and without unnecessary complex supply chains...... About reputation not helping in winning wars, I would say that you are forgetting vital & moral science, a good man always has a lot of good people to help him..... Take for example China, right now, who would come to China's help right now???? A few countries around may/may not help like Pakistan, Taiwan, Myanmar, North Korea, Sri Lanka, Nepal, Mongolia etc, may come to your mind but think of how many of these are trust-able, how many are powerful or what is their reputation among other nations???? Now,when it comes to India, we have the support and trust of Russia on one hand and on the other hand, though we lack trust, yet we are believed to be a very strategic position to counter China for NATO, and also we have good relations with many middle-eastern, African, and South- American Nations..... Also, the probability of participation of these nation in case of major conflicts is equally strong or weak for both nation, yet we boast of good support and international sympathy..... You get support either by creating fear or by gaining sympathy, the only difference being that the ones who come out of fear, may/may not help you and can even hurt when you grow weak whereas the ones who come out of sympathy are impelled to support and there is a whole difference in their approaches towards supporting a nation......

My vision might seem Utopian to you but believe me, you thoroughly go through my comment and you would be satisfied with majority of my opinions... You always need to understand that a war is never between two countries, even though he fighting part is carried out by two nations, it always affects international relation, sentiments, faith, bonding and trust among nations around the globe!!!!!
 
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The countries in Africa and South America won;t lift a finger to help. The only thing they will do is speak up. China is using any trick in the book to obtain an edge. No country is going to give you cutting edge tech better than their own. Its as simple as that. No one will jeopardize their national security. China' two main allies, NK and Pakistan both have Nukes....do you think that was accidental. I sense something more sinister in this. Burma was recently outed by former officials who stated the Burmese were developing Nukes. Guess what all 3 share a land border with China. As for the countries mentioned that support China all would be more than happy to get to obtain land from India one way or another. I agree we should 110% focus on local research and production of our Domestic Military Industry but we should embark on a secret parallel program to reverse engineer. The reason is we should never wait to get one's permission for tech, we need to go out there and get it thru any means necessary. Throughout history, successful nations have done this to have an edge in case of any future conflicts. China is not sitting idly while we catch up, they are working overtime to continue the progress and the lead they gained. International support won;t mean in conflict. You overestimate the will and capability of the international community. When a strong nation goes to war, how many strong nations are willing to lose soldiers lives for someone's else war? Russia will look after he own interest, sure it will raise its voice in the UN as will others but it won;t help us unless we are prepared to fight. Our reputation wont mean a damn thing if India does not exist. Remember, read history and make it a point obtain the lessons, victors dictate the rules and losers just follow. What makes you think when a country as big and strong as China goes to war, how will the international community affect them? Embargoes will affect their nations' economies more than China's! Your Vision is the same as many Indians and I agree it is Utopian which is not a bad thing. The problem is that the world is not ready for it yet, maybe after WW3 my friend. Another problem is that we Indians need to wake up and actively engage in the world, in the real world. Sitting around and hoping for the best and hoping the world will come together to stop war will never materialize. Go turn on the News, you'll see evidence of war all around you. Even in the UN you have countries coming together to push for peace but to no avail. It will only stop when the objectives of any war have been met.



Read this on another thread:
"Avibras chief executive Sami Hassuani believes an initial 100-200 units could be sold to international users, with Pakistan viewed as a prime candidate. Mectron delivered its first MAA-1A Piranha-1 air-to-air missiles to the nation last month, and Islamabad has also signed a letter of intent to purchase B-version Piranha-2s.


This is very interesting we got these AAMs without anyone knowing no official declaration or ceremony!! i like the way we procure weapons with modesty & no show off! & this shows our intent is to keep a minimum deterrence & no aggressive aims!! or any power projection in the region....!!"


There are two points to take here, both SA and Brazil are willing to sell to anyone regardless if it affects our security! Ok? The second point is that the Pakis can keep quiet about a lot of acquisitions till they have acquired such or even after acquiring they can keep damn quiet about it. Why cannot India learn from them. Sure Arihant was quiet but not quiet enough. We should;t make so much noise about BMD or any other weapons systems. it tips off our enemies. Let them believe we are slow and dumb, its a strategic advantage for us later.
 
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My sources tell me, we are going for Apache. They also confirmed that order of 22 will be followed by bigger order.

I am slightly disagree with second part... By the time Apache delivery will be made, LCH will be ready. And as I know A K Antony, he will not go for foreign machine if something Indian available.... Rest of Attack Helos will be LCH...

Those days are gone when some Bas^&^%d use to put sand in Arjuna Fuel Tank (to sabotage it and get commission in T90 Tank)...


so there will not be big order... 22 or 25 will be the final count.
 
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