Debunking the PAF F-16 Down Myth: 5th Generation Warfare

[S.Y.A]

I think indians are presenting very convincing evidences. Only PAF can clarify this.

Does explain first they said 1 pilot caputured and 2 in the area.

Could be our Sam mistook our own aircraft f-16 and shot down f-16 or the indian mig shot it down.

Whatever the case lies cannot be hidden in this time 2019. Whoever is lying the truth will come out.

For now i have fears that f-16 might have been shot down. Its an old f-16 block 20 at the age of retirement 40 years old. Very early model also is air to ground heavy fighter with twin seats. Its easy to take it down with sam or BVR mig 21 can easily shoot down 40 year old f-16 early version. I fly mig 23 in DCS wold military simulator everyday and i have shot down many f-16s in old aircraft which even are bombers but can fire BVR missiles.


I just hope we didnt loose any aircraft and if we did loose an aircraft i hope we didn't loose any paf pilots.

I say this because indian claims are very very convincing for me.

then you have completely ignored the OP. also, the indians are only showing the missile debris, not the aircraft's.

 

[darksider]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1101151765775425536

 

[Telescopic Sight]

your side is claiming that it has got its hands on some Aim 120s. please do tell what they were fired at?

2 possible answers.
A ) PaF F 16 shot a second MIG which fell in Indian Kashmir with the AMRAAM still in it.
B) PAF F 16 shot at MIG which fell inside Pak Kashmir multiple times, and this is one of the missiles that missed and fell inside India.

What do you think of my conjectures?

 

[S.Y.A]

CU-2372 probably:

View attachment 543005

probably, still matches the indian serial number format. definitely not from F-16.

2 possible answers.
A ) PaF F 16 shot a second MIG which fell in Indian Kashmir with the AMRAAM still in it.
B) PAF F 16 shot at MIG which fell inside Pak Kashmir multiple times, and this is one of the missiles that missed and fell inside India.

What do you think of my conjectures?

if it was fired at the aircraft that fell inside Pakistan, then Aim 120 wasnt even needed. Aim-9 was enough. in the first case, rajauri is not that far to warrant the use of Aim-120

 

[blain2]

2 possible answers.
A ) PaF F 16 shot a second MIG which fell in Indian Kashmir with the AMRAAM still in it.
B) PAF F 16 shot at MIG which fell inside Pak Kashmir multiple times, and this is one of the missiles that missed and fell inside India.

What do you think of my conjectures?

You are correct. All they are doing is showing expended AMRAAM debris as evidence of the plane being shot down. Nothing but conjecture and obfuscation by the Indian side (including their military).
I am fine with them doing that in the hope that this is a way to close out on this conflict. Let them consider the debris to be an F-16 kill. We won't lose any sleep over it as long as more people don't get hurt or die on either side.

 

[Telescopic Sight]

They lost an aircraft on which we fired. Its simple as that. Its seems to be an expended AMRAAM. Finding debris of it only shows that it was fired on something and Indians have lost 2 aircraft.

Had Pakistan lost an F-16 in AK, there are enough people with enough phones to provide some evidence of it crashing inside of Pakistan. To the gullible Indian public, remnants of a fired AAM are being presented as downing of an aircraft.

Keep one thing in mind. These operations are conducted with well planned strike packages. The ones that delivered the ordnance on the 6 Indian sites were strike platform (Mirages and potentially JF-17s). To provide top cover, the F-16s would have been employed with their AMRAAMs against Indian threats at stand-off ranges. The F-16s or even JF-17 at standoff ranges would not be employing WVRAAMs.

Pakistan has evidence on the ground, whereas the other side is scrounging for ideas. Best to leave this behind and move on.

I dont think they showed the remnants of the missile as proof of a F 16 shootdown at all. It is just to show that F 16s were used.
Why is this important? One to weaken the ISPR claims more and more . Remember Gafoor saying 3 pilots and NO F 16 s used?
Second, Uncle Sam gave your country this jet with some conditions. Now, your guess is as good as mine as to the future of the Viper in PAF.

 

[Foxtrot Delta]

then you have completely ignored the OP. also, the indians are only showing the missile debris, not the aircraft's.

They Don't have to show aircraft. The aircraft was shown by our own military. As it fell inside azad kashmir. Look at the photos the evidence is comvincing atleast for me.

Im a pakistani patriot don't doubt it. Im also not supporting the enemy. Stating my personal opinion ,
Evidence by india is very convincing.

Also they and usa has technology and ways to prove it. Pakistan has the means to prove their point as well.

I think pakistan air force will debunk the indian lies.

All im saying is indian proofs are very very convincing.

 

[Telescopic Sight]

probably, still matches the indian serial number format. definitely not from F-16.


if it was fired at the aircraft that fell inside Pakistan, then Aim 120 wasnt even needed. Aim-9 was enough. in the first case, rajauri is not that far to warrant the use of Aim-120

A few Pakistani experts in this forum have made very knowledgeable statements that this is a BVR shootdown. I believe even Kaiser Tufail said this too in his FB post.

Actually Tufail was the 1st to point out that the ISPR is wrong. He clarified that F 16s from the No.9 Sq. were used.

 

[S.Y.A]

CU-2372 probably:

View attachment 543005

looks more like 2312 or 2712.

 

[blain2]

I dont think they showed the remnants of the missile as proof of a F 16 shootdown at all. It is just to show that F 16s were used.
Why is this important? One to weaken the ISPR claims more and more . Remember Gafoor saying 3 pilots and NO F 16 s used?
Second, Uncle Sam gave your country this jet with some conditions. Now, your guess is as good as mine as to the future of the Viper in PAF.

Anyone who thinks that Pakistan will not use the full potential of the force at its disposal is out of their minds because India does the exact same and with weapons from all over. Americans have never placed any conditions on Pakistan on how we use our equipment. The only condition was to not host the aircraft with the Chinese platforms.

The future of Viper is as is. Pakistan will manage.

 

[Telescopic Sight]

looks more like 2312 or 2712.

looks more like 2312 or 2712.

Probably the same number as the Mig Bison. Its on the ISPR photos too.

 

[blain2]

A few Pakistani experts in this forum have made very knowledgeable statements that this is a BVR shootdown. I believe even Kaiser Tufail said this too in his FB post.

Actually Tufail was the 1st to point out that the ISPR is wrong. He clarified that F 16s from the No.9 Sq. were used.

Pakistan has also made a claim on a second kill and there are indications that a JF-17 was involved in it. In the fog of this conflict, these details will remain hidden only to be revealed at a later date.

 

[Foxtrot Delta]

I dont think they showed the remnants of the missile as proof of a F 16 shootdown at all. It is just to show that F 16s were used.
Why is this important? One to weaken the ISPR claims more and more . Remember Gafoor saying 3 pilots and NO F 16 s used?
Second, Uncle Sam gave your country this jet with some conditions. Now, your guess is as good as mine as to the future of the Viper in PAF.

That Doesn't make sense, if tomorrow russia says don't use Su-30 against pakistan will you call it acceptible demand?

What if in a few years france tells indian airforce you can use can't use rafale against pakistan....?

Will you find it acceptible?

But instand with DG ISPR they are my team. They said no F-16 used i think they know what they are talking about.

 

[blain2]

They Don't have to show aircraft. The aircraft was shown by our own military. As it fell inside azad kashmir. Look at the photos the evidence is comvincing atleast for me.

Im a pakistani patriot don't doubt it. Im also not supporting the enemy. Stating my personal opinion ,
Evidence by india is very convincing.

Also they and usa has technology and ways to prove it. Pakistan has the means to prove their point as well.

I think pakistan air force will debunk the indian lies.

All im saying is indian proofs are very very convincing.

Convincing of what? That they shot down an F-16 and it landed inside Pakistan?

 

[Great Janjua]

Only Pakistan owns AMRAAM missiles that cover 150 kms , if this is true . Not even America has such a weapon. Do you really believe that?

If Indians can claim off shooting a f-16 without any evidence then I have the right to claim that the mi-17 was indeed shot down by our forces with locals too back my claim. Account from locals *two loud bangs were heard next minute a helicopter which was on flames descended from the heavens*