Debunking Kargil Myths & How Pakistan Captured Point 5353

[Trango Towers]

The half of Kashmir was taken over during separation and its aftermath. You've tried several times over the last 70 years to alter the status quo since then and you've landed face flat in all your attempts.

We're a population of more than a billion. The entire country was on it's feet ready to support our jawans in every way during Kargil. We'll do it time and time again. Each one of us will defend mother India by the skin of our teeth if it comes to it.

Yet your country men were fed lies by the military with fake operations earning medals only later to be stripped and Bollywood movies depicting the brave Indian soldiers at tiger hill. Yet the main peaks still remain firmly under Pakistan command and here you are dancing and claiming they were not yours in the first place.....we agree this area is not your

 

[Jackdaws]

Lol. The Pakistani desperation on forums to paint Kargil as a victory is laughable in the face of facts like Sharif flying uninvited to USA to meet Clinton to intervene and seek a face saving exit.

 

[HariSinghNalwa]

This Pakistani desperation to show some semblance of balance in Kargil conflict by creating new facts but they forget what was the objective of that conflict to cut supply lines and force India out of siachin which is the most strategic height and that hasn't happened till now from 1984 op meghdoot ,so Pakistan desperation to show an decade old article and to begin with point 5353 was never under indian occupation

 

[Trango Towers]

This Pakistani desperation to show some semblance of balance in Kargil conflict by creating new facts but they forget what was the objective of that conflict to cut supply lines and force India out of siachin which is the most strategic height and that hasn't happened till now from 1984 op meghdoot ,so Pakistan desperation to show an decade old article and to begin with point 5353 was never under indian occupation

You really do belong to a gandoo nation

 

[The Accountant]

Or you being still there is a fucking lie

Your Raja Saba:

• "Pakistan is occupying at least six strategically located Indian peaks in the Kargil sector along the Line of Control" - Rajya Sabha member & senior criminal advocate R K Anand. (30 August 2000)

• "Point 5353 is very strategic. In 1992-93, the then corps commander (of India) decided to make a shift pocket on this point and sent personnel there by helicopter. The officers posted there successfully cut off the entire supply to the Pakistani pockets along the LoC for nearly two months."...he said the Indian Army then claimed that point 5353 is "within our LoC and that we have every right to patrol the area." - Rajya Sabha member & senior criminal advocate R K Anand. (30 August 2000)

• "Indian troops had tried to capture Point 5353 on May 18, 1999 when army operations were beginning in Operation Vijay in Kargil last year. But it failed...the operation was carried out by a team of soldiers led by Major Navneet Mehta."..."It is not possible to carry out an assault from the northwestern, western and south western approaches,"..."attack on 5353 called off due to bad weather" and that "13 OR (other ranks) injured in Maj Navneet's Pl (platoon) due to difficult trn (terrain)". - Rajya Sabha member & senior criminal advocate R K Anand. (30 August 2000)

• "If the army's argument that Point 5353 was never India's is to be accepted, then why did they launch the attack?" - Rajya Sabha member & senior criminal advocate R K Anand. (30 August 2000)

• "It looks like our army commanders are wrongly briefing the defence minister," he said when Fernandes' statement was pointed out. "The defence minister mislead Parliament on the basis of the briefing by army officers," Anand said, while demanding action against senior army commanders. - Rajya Sabha member & senior criminal advocate R K Anand. (30 August 2000)

 

[Zarvan]

Or you being still there is a fucking lie

Let's discuss the ground realities of what happened here:

Kargil peaks captured by Pakistan in 1999

• Point 5353
• Point Aftab-I
• Point Saddle Ridge
• Point Bunker Ridge
• Shangruti
• Tiger Hill
  
• Dhalunag

Kargil peaks still under Pakistani control as of 2018

• 
  
  
  • Point 5353
  • Point Aftab-I
  • Point Saddle Ridge
  • Point Bunker Ridge
  • Shangruti
  • Dhalunag

Pakistan still occupies key Drass point
By Praveen Swami

PAKISTAN soldiers perched at peak 5353, on the strategic Marpo La Ridge had a grandstand view of this year's Vijay Diwas celebrations, marking the official end of the Kargil war. At least some of them must had wry smiles on their faces, for although peak 5353 metres is inside the Indian side of the Line of Control (LoC), Pakistani troops held the mountain through the Kargil war and continue to do so today.

Artillery observers on peak 5353 metres can direct accurate artillery fire on to up to 20 km of the National Highway 1A, and cripple Indian defensive positions from Mushkoh to Bhimbet. Indian troops are being forced to compensate for this tactical blunder by engaging in a series of operations in the Batalik sector.

Pakistani occupation of point 5353 means Operation Vijay's core objective in Drass, securing the highway, in effect failed. Officials in New Delhi attempt to argue that point 5353 is in an ambiguous location on the Line of Control, and that there are two peaks of the same height which are being confused, claims debunked by copies of the Army's own maps which are in Business Line's possession.

Senior Army commanders in Drass are just as evasive. Asked if Pakistan was indeed in occupation of the peak, 8 Mountain Division Commander Major General Satnam Singh replied that it was ''too early to say''. Asked again, Gen. Singh said he would ''provide authentic information'' during this correspondent's ''next trip''. The strange story of peak 5353 began with the end of Operation Vijay, and the proclamation of a national triumph at Kargil.

Point 5353, like the features around it, had been occupied by Pakistani troops at the start of the Kargil war. Indian soldiers, however, were nowhere near its summit when hostilities were pronounced to have ended. All that had been achieved was the occupation of two secondary positions on the Marpo La ridge line, Charlie 6 and Charlie 7. Pakistani troops also remained on point 5240, some 1200 metres as the crow flies from point 5353. 56 Brigade Commander Amar Aul, in charge of the operations to secure point 5353, responded by occupying two heights on the Pakistani side of the LoC, 4875 and 4251, just before the ceasefire came into force.

Com. Aul's tactics, evidently under political pressure to bring about as quick an end to hostilities as possible, were designed to secure a subsequent territorial exchange. In mid-August, 1999, his efforts to bring about a deal bore fruit. Extended negotiations between the Brigadier and a Pakistani interlocutor, who called himself Colonel Saqlain, led to both sides committing themselves to leave points 5353, 5240, 4251 and 4875 unoccupied.

Both Indian and Pakistani troops were now pulled back to their pre-Kargil position, leaving an arial distance of about a kilometre between the armies along most of the Marpo La ridge. The deal wasn't ideal, for point 5353 was of enormously more strategic importance to India than either 4251 or 4875 were for Pakistan, but it was better than nothing.

Towards the end of October, things began to go horribly wrong. Commander Aul tasked the 16 Grenadiers to take point 5240 and the 1-3 Gurkha Rifles to occupy 5353, choosing to violate the August agreement rather than risk the prospect that Pakistan might reoccupy these positions again. While the 16 Grenadiers attack proceeded as planned, despite bad weather, the 1-3 Gurkha Rifles, for reasons which are still not clear, never made their way up 5353. When Pakistani troops detected the Indian presence on 52 40, they promptly launched a counter assault on 5353. Seven days later, in early November, the Grenadiers unit on 5240 watched Pakistan take up positions on the more important peak.

Pakistan moved rapidly to consolidate its position on 5353. Concrete bunkers came up on the peak, and a road was constructed to the base of the peak from Benazir Post, Pakistan's most important permanent position in the area. In the meanwhile, Commander Aul considered plans to retake the peak. He didn't have much choice. India's positions on 5240 were under threat, along with positions of the 2 Naga in Mushkoh, the 2 Grenadiers in Drass, and the 8 Sikh in Bhimbet. Offensives were discussed in January an d February this year, and again in May and August, but had to be abandoned each time because of the risks involved.

With 5353 and its adjoining area now linked by road to Pakistan's rear headquarters at Gultari, and defensive positions heavily fortified, any frontal attack would mean a full-blown resumption of hostilities in Drass.

The Army's tactics in Kargil now appear to centre around forcing a territorial swap for 5353. The worst of the fighting has come in the Batalik area, to the east of Kargil, where Indian troops have been ordered to take any unoccupied positions they discover on the Pakistan side of the LoC.

In one such operation on April 8, a company of the 14 Sikh Regiment occupied point 5310, an unheld peak roughly one kilometre air distance on the Pakistan side of the LoC. Subedar Bhatnam Singh and one soldier were killed in an avalanche during the operation.

Pakistan retaliation has been prompt. On the night of July 27, a group of 24 porters and four soldiers carrying material for an offensive from Gol Tekri to Rock Fall, facing the key Chorbat La range, were ambushed by Pakistani troops or irregulars. One porter was killed, and three are still missing, presumed dead. There is little doubt that the Pakistani ambush was laid deep in Indian territory for Kalashnikov empties, with a short range, were recovered from the ambush site. The incident followed the destruction, in May, of a new Pakistani post with a shoulder-held missile.

While the Union Government's propaganda on the Kargil War has allowed it to score propaganda points, the end of the conflict is, clearly, not quite yet in sight.

Quotes

• "Pakistan is occupying at least six strategically located Indian peaks in the Kargil sector along the Line of Control" - Rajya Sabha member & senior criminal advocate R K Anand. (30 August 2000)

• "Point 5353 is very strategic. In 1992-93, the then corps commander (of India) decided to make a shift pocket on this point and sent personnel there by helicopter. The officers posted there successfully cut off the entire supply to the Pakistani pockets along the LoC for nearly two months."...he said the Indian Army then claimed that point 5353 is "within our LoC and that we have every right to patrol the area." - Rajya Sabha member & senior criminal advocate R K Anand. (30 August 2000)

• "Indian troops had tried to capture Point 5353 on May 18, 1999 when army operations were beginning in Operation Vijay in Kargil last year. But it failed...the operation was carried out by a team of soldiers led by Major Navneet Mehta."..."It is not possible to carry out an assault from the northwestern, western and south western approaches,"..."attack on 5353 called off due to bad weather" and that "13 OR (other ranks) injured in Maj Navneet's Pl (platoon) due to difficult trn (terrain)". - Rajya Sabha member & senior criminal advocate R K Anand. (30 August 2000)

• "If the army's argument that Point 5353 was never India's is to be accepted, then why did they launch the attack?" - Rajya Sabha member & senior criminal advocate R K Anand. (30 August 2000)

• "It looks like our army commanders are wrongly briefing the defence minister," he said when Fernandes' statement was pointed out. "The defence minister mislead Parliament on the basis of the briefing by army officers," Anand said, while demanding action against senior army commanders. - Rajya Sabha member & senior criminal advocate R K Anand. (30 August 2000)

Sources

1. 'Commander ordered capture of Point 5353 in Kargil war', By Praveen Swami. NEW DELHI, 29 June 2000 - THE HINDU
2. 'Pakistan still occupies key Drass point', by Praveen Swami. DRASS, 10 August 2000 - THE HINDU
3. 'Fact and fiction on Point 5353; The defence establishment's response to the controversy over Point 5353 plumbs new depths' by Praveen Swami. 30 September 2000 - FRONTLINE
4. ‘6 Kargil heights in Pak control’. NEW DELHI, 30 August 2000 - Tribune India
5. 'Pakistan occupying six Indian peaks, claims MP' by Josy Joseph. NEW DELHI, 30 August 2000 - REDIFF
6. 'Not convinced we won Kargil: Lt Gen Kishan Pal to NDTV' by Nitin Gokhale. NEW DELHI 31 May 2010 00:36 IST - NDTV
7. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/904482.stm
8. http://www.ipcs.org/event-report/3r...india-revises-time-frame-of-war/1/254326.html
9. https://www.telegraphindia.com/1020828/asp/frontpage/story_1144073.asp

https://twitter.com/x/status/1015158085558550528

I want to reply to this Indian please @Sulman Badshah @Tipu7

 

[Jackdaws]

Your Raja Saba:

• "Pakistan is occupying at least six strategically located Indian peaks in the Kargil sector along the Line of Control" - Rajya Sabha member & senior criminal advocate R K Anand. (30 August 2000)

• "Point 5353 is very strategic. In 1992-93, the then corps commander (of India) decided to make a shift pocket on this point and sent personnel there by helicopter. The officers posted there successfully cut off the entire supply to the Pakistani pockets along the LoC for nearly two months."...he said the Indian Army then claimed that point 5353 is "within our LoC and that we have every right to patrol the area." - Rajya Sabha member & senior criminal advocate R K Anand. (30 August 2000)

• "Indian troops had tried to capture Point 5353 on May 18, 1999 when army operations were beginning in Operation Vijay in Kargil last year. But it failed...the operation was carried out by a team of soldiers led by Major Navneet Mehta."..."It is not possible to carry out an assault from the northwestern, western and south western approaches,"..."attack on 5353 called off due to bad weather" and that "13 OR (other ranks) injured in Maj Navneet's Pl (platoon) due to difficult trn (terrain)". - Rajya Sabha member & senior criminal advocate R K Anand. (30 August 2000)

• "If the army's argument that Point 5353 was never India's is to be accepted, then why did they launch the attack?" - Rajya Sabha member & senior criminal advocate R K Anand. (30 August 2000)

• "It looks like our army commanders are wrongly briefing the defence minister," he said when Fernandes' statement was pointed out. "The defence minister mislead Parliament on the basis of the briefing by army officers," Anand said, while demanding action against senior army commanders. - Rajya Sabha member & senior criminal advocate R K Anand. (30 August 2000)

That's a statement from a politician, not from the Rajya Sabha.

 

[The Accountant]

That's a statement from a politician, not from the Rajya Sabha.

He is questioning your army as he is not stupid like you

 

[Indus Priest King]

Or you being still there is a fucking lie

Calm down Captain Happy. I'm only using your own indian sources against you. Here's a news report from 2009 which essentially proves my point again.

It's been 10 years since point 5353 in the Drass sector was captured by the Pakistani Army

Lol. The Pakistani desperation on forums to paint Kargil as a victory is laughable in the face of facts like Sharif flying uninvited to USA to meet Clinton to intervene and seek a face saving exit.

I'm just gonna go ahead and leave this here...

Not convinced we won Kargil: Lt Gen Kishan Pal to NDTV
https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/not-convinced-we-won-kargil-lt-gen-kishan-pal-to-ndtv-419433

Yet your country men were fed lies by the military with fake operations earning medals only later to be stripped and Bollywood movies depicting the brave Indian soldiers at tiger hill. Yet the main peaks still remain firmly under Pakistan command and here you are dancing and claiming they were not yours in the first place.....we agree this area is not your

This has been the Indian Modus operandi for quite some time now. You'd be amazed at how many Indians actually think that Gilgit-Baltistan is under Indian control. Some of them actually think Indian soldiers are in Skardu and Gilgit. LMFAO.

In essence, India has brainwashed it's entire population into believing myths like Kargil or the map of Jammu & Kashmir. When they abroad and witness reality, they often come into shock. I recall one Indian student during my time at university abroad who was upset that Jammu & Kashmir was being shown rightfully divided along the LoC and couldn't come to terms.

He actually thought Indian military were present in Skardu and Gilgit. LMFAO.

This is now brainwashed they are.

 

[Jackdaws]

He is questioning your army as he is not stupid like you

He was an MP and he can make any statement to cater to his voter base within the confines of the Parliament without any chance of a case of defamation or slander. If you had enough brains to know how a democracy and Parliament works you wouldn't make a fool of yourself.

 

[Trango Towers]

Calm down Captain Happy. I'm only using your own indian sources against you. Here's a news report from 2009 which essentially proves my point again.

It's been 10 years since point 5353 in the Drass sector was captured by the Pakistani Army



I'm just gonna go ahead and leave this here...

Not convinced we won Kargil: Lt Gen Kishan Pal to NDTV
https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/not-convinced-we-won-kargil-lt-gen-kishan-pal-to-ndtv-419433



This has been the Indian Modus operandi for quite some time now. You'd be amazed at how many Indians actually think that Gilgit-Baltistan is under Indian control. Some of them actually think Indian soldiers are in Skardu and Gilgit. LMFAO.

In essence, India has brainwashed it's entire population into believing myths like Kargil or the map of Jammu & Kashmir. When they abroad and witness reality, they often come into shock. I recall one Indian student during my time at university abroad who was upset that Jammu & Kashmir was being shown rightfully divided along the LoC and couldn't come to terms.

He actually thought Indian military were present in Skardu and Gilgit. LMFAO.

This is now brainwashed they are.

As the German SS said during ww2

When you tell a lie....tell a big lie and keep repeating it untilbthey believe you

 

[cloud4000]

Half of Kashmir is already under Pakistan control. It's your half which is rebelling. It's your half which has over 1 million soldiers occupying 5 million Kashmiris.

All we need to do is sit back, and watch IOK further fall into abyss. How many stone peltings will your soldiers take until mutiny occurs and they refuse to be deployed to IOK?

You spend 10x more in your half than Pakistan does in it's half. Hang on cause it's gonna be a rough ride for you.

The thing is Pakistan is not content on just keeping its half of Kashmir, it wants all of Kashmir. India, on the other hand, is content on just keeping the half under its control.

Pakistan has been waiting 70-years to get all of Kashmir and it looks like it will be waiting 70 more. Pakistan doesn't have the wherewithal to do anything on Kashmir like it did in 1999. Its resources are limited and its economy is even in worst shape today than in 1999. India can well afford to spend 10x or even 20x in Kashmir. So don't worry about the economic costs.

And there will be no more Kargil like misadventures this time around. Tactical nukes are a viable option now, and the Indian Army is not the same in 2018 as it is in 1999. If Kargil proved anything, is that Indian military had severe shortcomings, but it is making strides in this regard.

 

[darksider]

Calm down Captain Happy. I'm only using your own indian sources against you. Here's a news report from 2009 which essentially proves my point again.

It's been 10 years since point 5353 in the Drass sector was captured by the Pakistani Army



I'm just gonna go ahead and leave this here...

Not convinced we won Kargil: Lt Gen Kishan Pal to NDTV
https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/not-convinced-we-won-kargil-lt-gen-kishan-pal-to-ndtv-419433



This has been the Indian Modus operandi for quite some time now. You'd be amazed at how many Indians actually think that Gilgit-Baltistan is under Indian control. Some of them actually think Indian soldiers are in Skardu and Gilgit. LMFAO.

In essence, India has brainwashed it's entire population into believing myths like Kargil or the map of Jammu & Kashmir. When they abroad and witness reality, they often come into shock. I recall one Indian student during my time at university abroad who was upset that Jammu & Kashmir was being shown rightfully divided along the LoC and couldn't come to terms.

He actually thought Indian military were present in Skardu and Gilgit. LMFAO.

This is now brainwashed they are.

bhai in ko jutey bagho baghoka maar rahey ho.
kesey maney gey?
yeh sab denail mode mey rehtey hain pakistan k hawaley sey.
phir 71 ka tana kesey dain gey.
they will not bring any proof.they will just deny and deny.its in their psyche.

is there any map about it.can you post here please?

 

[Tristar]

And still we have point 5353 in our control so sad for you

You still having Siachin on papers till now...

 

[Indus Priest King]

Paati paati...