Debate this : Obama fears Pakistan’s disintegration

[DGMO]

BUT the world is fearful about a impolding Pakistan and some BIN LADEN MK2 type idiot with a nuke in his hand

It's the most ridiculous myth and scenario that is painted about our nukes.

Nukes aren't lying on a fruit cart in some bazaar for someone to just pick up and run with. I can't begin to tell you how much they're fortified. As Musharraf said, a dedicated force of many thousands are in place to protect the nukes, and the Strategic Planning Division (SPD) is admired for its work by the West (even if they don't say so explicity).

Then try to understand that they're not lying there to just pick up, place in your pocket and walk off. They're pretty big and heavy, they have codes, they're not triggered with a remote control with a big red button as you might see on Cartoon Network.

This over simplification of our nukes as if they're scattered around in some disused, unsecure bunker is ridiculous in the extreme. They are considered strategic assets for a reason, and if the likes of Benazir Bhutto wasn't allowed to visit, or see those nukes, then that tells you how protective the military are of their prized possession.

 

[ice_man]

Ah, the standard answer to anyone who dares speak the truth, "you're a troll". I was reading something today, and it so very much applies to you:

Pakistani cricket journalist Osman Samiuddin in last year's Wisden: 'In Pakistan, never underestimate the power of denial and the vividness of delusion which stems from it.'​

Breaking at any second? Where do you get these ridiculous 'facts' from? How can the death of a woman lead to the break-up of a country of 180 million? Where many didn't care for her? Don't over dramatise the situation, as any sane individual on this forum, or in Pakistan will tell you that was not the case.

Doing fine masha'Allah? What, with the 22 hour load shedding and all the other ills I've mentioned. Is that your definition of doing fine? How about asking those in the villages where I hail from how they're doing now compared to 5-7 years ago? As I've done that on all my visits to Pakistan recently, and I know what the answer to that is. No one has known hell like they're experiencing right now. The inflation levels are unprecedented, their misery is like nothing they've known before.


Well, given we took on the PT and have drones firing missles daily killing the likes of Ilyas Kashmiri and others, it's no surprise that a force of 80k troops is having some success in quelling the surge of the PT. They've been pushed back, the pressure has been incessant, but we're still hearing of our soldiers being beheaded. Therefore, the issue and problem remains. Peshawar just experienced a bomb attack killing 19 last week, attacks are constant in Quetta and Balouchistan as a whole. Stability isn't there, and it's a problem we're trying to deal with.


More delusion. Judiciary that is free, or is politicised? I asked the question, who has been convicted of note? Whether that is from the govt, the opposition, the business leaders, the military, who? Why is Moonis Elahi walking free? Makhdoom Fahim living it large when he admitted to having Rs.40m in his back accounts and handing it back following the NICL scam? And now we have the CJP exposed for having a son that appears to be in the Zardari league of corruption. And all the while daddy didn't know about this. Yeah, sure, I believe that. But my concern isn't the games the Supreme Court plays on a daily basis. Their tamasha can continue. How is the common man benefiting? Millions of Pakistani's getting justice? Like my 7 year court case which dragged on despite having the necessary paperwork, but the opposing lawyer being closely connected? Or all the cases of the poor and vulnerable who are waiting for justice.


What on earth has that got to do with the absence of governance, and rampant corruption that manifests itself in our country from top to bottom? How on earth can you compare those countries to us? I'm talking about policy making, planning, good governance - all things that are crucial to the success of a nation. We have shown none of it. We took 9 months to appoint a Finance Minister after the PPP came to power, 9 MONTHS!! Does that not mean anything to you? A country in dire straits on the economic front dragged out such an important and much needed portfolio because of POOR GOVERNANCE.



A new leader comes into office. Oh, you mean like Raja Rental? Or Pervez Elahi? Or Nawaz Sharif? Or Altaf Hussain? All reputable figures with sterling credentials. I'm sure they'll all turn the country around in a few months.



The good??! Are you for real?? What is so good about our country right now? What facets should I be proud of? Because when I sit here and watch programmes like 'Jurm Bolta Hai' that document the nation we've become, then I have to wonder what good there is. Or like 3 weeks ago, when my cousin was on his way back from work, was ill, and fell unconcious. He woke next to his scooter to find that no one had helped him, but that someone took Rs.6,000 that he had in his pocket. Wah bhai wah, that is the good that's spreading right now.

But you can't see it, with your rose-tinted glasses on. Or perhaps you have your head buried so firmly in the sand, which just
typifies the height of delusion.

breaking any second was a reality! you don't know living far away hiding in your PALACE! sindhis were crying lines such as the famous PAKISTAN NAA KHAPAAY! and why does sindhi blood always spill!

economic detrotion! great EVEN you beloved UK and USA has it so? whats your point there? Pakistan has load shedding YES but that is one of the woes which a poor nation has BUT then again so does india & most of south asia suffer from load shedding!

you have already abandoned ship so no worries nothing is expected of you. if you can't fix the problem then you clearly are the problem!

Pakistan is improving in many ways and calling CJ a political gimmick is insane! he is the only silver lining in the dark clouds PPP has gathered above this nation.

he has made dual nationals not stand for election. he has stopped the PSM from being sold for pennies! he is giving JUSTICE to alot of poor people that you don't know. who have won their cases that have been pending for decades.

but what would you know you can just abandon ship at the first opportunity!

 

[ice_man]

Pakistan is the epicenter of global terrorism....if it disintegrates it is in the interest of the world

ok TROLL boy!

 

[amidamaru]

i think it is bad for pakistan and the world if it disintegrated.

pakistan would be a total lost cause then

as it stands now, if they try to stamp out corruption and extremism... in a few generations, their people might be a bit more civilized (as in not as prejudice against anyone non muslim) and people could go there with little fear of being kidnapped or murdered

 

[nishmith]

o God save us from mighty India ahahahahahaha grow up kid we are a nuke state with a dozen type of missiles covering all of India so if any thing happen u will go with us for sure so go and pray that nothing can happen to us

dont wory even our nukes are more than sufficient to the whole pakistan.........any part anywhere.......dont act too smart......bcoz we are smarter than you.........

 

[ice_man]

dont wory even our nukes are more than sufficient to the whole pakistan.........any part anywhere.......dont act too smart......bcoz we are smarter than you.........

ya and you have SUNNY DEOL & DHARMINDER!! no need for nukes troll boy!

 

[Storm Force]

as it stands now, if they try to stamp out corruption and extremism... in a few generations, their people might be a bit more civilized (as in not as prejudice against anyone non muslim) and people could go there with little fear of being kidnapped or murdered

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate...kistan-s-disintegration-12.html#ixzz1z73uEFV2

Amid. is this the image that Pakistan portrays to you Aussies....

 

[jatt+gutts]

option a )weak and disintegrated pakistan is in indias best interest.

 

[DGMO]

breaking any second was a reality! you don't know living far away hiding in your PALACE! sindhis were crying lines such as the famous PAKISTAN NAA KHAPAAY! and why does sindhi blood always spill!

economic detrotion! great EVEN you beloved UK and USA has it so? whats your point there? Pakistan has load shedding YES but that is one of the woes which a poor nation has BUT then again so does india & most of south asia suffer from load shedding!

you have already abandoned ship so no worries nothing is expected of you. if you can't fix the problem then you clearly are the problem!

Pakistan is improving in many ways and calling CJ a political gimmick is insane! he is the only silver lining in the dark clouds PPP has gathered above this nation.

he has made dual nationals not stand for election. he has stopped the PSM from being sold for pennies! he is giving JUSTICE to alot of poor people that you don't know. who have won their cases that have been pending for decades.

but what would you know you can just abandon ship at the first opportunity!

No, breaking wasn't a reality, so stop kidding yourself. Ask anyone here and they'll tell you the same. Doesn't mean if you're not in the country, that you don't know. There is something called the media, there is something called 'family around Pakistan', so the 'not living in Pakistan' argument doesn't stack up.

There's not much point discussing anything with you as your deluded mindset is way too extreme. You fail to grasp the scale of our problems and mismanagement, and then bracket us with the UK and US. Pure desperation and delusion.

What has uncle CJ done for you? Tell me what he's done that makes you worship him? The corruption continues, the thiefs in Parliament continue to loot on a daily basis, the lower courts struggle to clear cases, and corruption is rampant there. What are his amazing achievements apart from bringing up his wonderful son? Oooops, did I just mention him again? Poor daddy, didn't know about beta spending £40k a month on rent in London, on Harrods shopping trips, on hiring luxury Range Rover cars, on developing a Rs.900m business in Pakistan in just a few years. Not the sharpest judge in the land, but maybe one with lots to hide - with dirt on his hands. Maybe, just maybe.

How have I abandoned ship? Stop your nonsensical and unfounded arguments. I wasn't even born in Pakistan, so how have I abandoned it? Despite that, I have still given a lot to that country. Yet the moment I land there, Customs are asking for a bribe, and the same when I leave.

I might not be abandoning it, but many already are. Be grateful the likes of me contribute in so many positive ways, because if it weren't for our investments, then things would be a whole lot worse.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

well we all have stories to tell.....i have to deal with our own family court case sitting here in damn washington DC where im busy with studies

we have small family owned plot in Doonga Gulli....screwed over by people who cheated my grandfather. What should have been a case solved in no more than 2 months, i have been at it back and forth since 2005

as far as some of these district courts are concerned -- and especially when the issue is LAND --- you dont hire lawyers





you hire judges. . . .


if you do things ''properly'' and procedurally, you'll be dealing with the courts for a long fuckin time. Even in Abbotabad, court is back-logged by oh about 400 days....



imagine the lack of justice to poor people in rural areas.....this is what helped foster these talebanic type groups that insist on ''swift'' justice (by the whip).



a strong judiciary and an end to corruption and hanging those who cheat and mis-use public funds is one of the greatest ways to boost national security and integrity of the state

 

[DGMO]

well we all have stories to tell.....i have to deal with our own family court case sitting here in damn washington DC where im busy with studies

we have small family owned plot in Doonga Gulli....screwed over by people who cheated my grandfather. What should have been a case solved in no more than 2 months, i have been at it back and forth since 2005

as far as some of these district courts are concerned -- and especially when the issue is LAND --- you dont hire lawyers





you hire judges. . . .


if you do things ''properly'' and procedurally, you'll be dealing with the courts for a long fuckin time. Even in Abbotabad, court is back-logged by oh about 400 days....



imagine the lack of justice to poor people in rural areas.....this is what helped foster these talebanic type groups that insist on ''swift'' justice (by the whip).



a strong judiciary and an end to corruption and hanging those who cheat and mis-use public funds is one of the greatest ways to boost national security and integrity of the state

As I mentioned in my earlier post, we were screwed over for 7 years, and the only way we settled is by having a jirga. Only then we got 3/4 of the land which was only 7 marla, but we fought for it as it was legitimately ours, the paperwork, the stam, everything was there. But the opposing lawyer was well-connected, and we couldn't make progress. Adjournments after adjournments, and fighting on our behalf was my mamoo. But we couldn't put him through the hassle.

We went the jirga route, but I'm not the only one who's getting screwed on a daily basis. It points to a wider systematic malaise with the courts, where the rich and powerful get justice.

The weak, and poor suffer. A recipe for disintegration is there ever was one.

 

[Luftwaffe]

there is no chance of Pakistan imploding. There are other countries with nukes who have got insurgencies worry about them.

Good Point. Please tell storm force Former Soviet Union broke into pieces and was the worst nightmare.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

As I mentioned in my earlier post, we were screwed over for 7 years, and the only way we settled is by having a jirga. Only then we got 3/4 of the land which was only 7 marla, but we fought for it as it was legitimately ours, the paperwork, the stam, everything was there. But the opposing lawyer was well-connected, and we couldn't make progress. Adjournments after adjournments, and fighting on our behalf was my mamoo. But we couldn't put him through the hassle.

We went the jirga route, but I'm not the only one who's getting screwed on a daily basis. It points to a wider systematic malaise with the courts, where the rich and powerful get justice.

The weak, and poor suffer. A recipe for disintegration is there ever was one.

good, so i know im not the only one who been screwed over heavily and is dealing with a rotten system

a part of me wanted to just show up at this guys house and put a gun to his face, but that would be too easy and too irrational and emotional (and illegal - we werent raised to be that way)

literally, since 2005 hardly any progress made....over a piece of land that is legally ours.


a ''lawyer'' whom i used to drink tea with (when my grandfather was still with us - God bless his departed soul) royally screwed us in our azzes and forged our signatures. Someone who used to call my Grandfather as ''uncle'' took advantage of his age.


the whole system has to be changed; and this wont happen overnight. If your own president is a crook, even at grass-roots level people will be crooks. Even there are paan shops now run by crooks.

 

[ice_man]

No, breaking wasn't a reality, so stop kidding yourself. Ask anyone here and they'll tell you the same. Doesn't mean if you're not in the country, that you don't know. There is something called the media, there is something called 'family around Pakistan', so the 'not living in Pakistan' argument doesn't stack up.

There's not much point discussing anything with you as your deluded mindset is way too extreme. You fail to grasp the scale of our problems and mismanagement, and then bracket us with the UK and US. Pure desperation and delusion.

What has uncle CJ done for you? Tell me what he's done that makes you worship him? The corruption continues, the thiefs in Parliament continue to loot on a daily basis, the lower courts struggle to clear cases, and corruption is rampant there. What are his amazing achievements apart from bringing up his wonderful son? Oooops, did I just mention him again? Poor daddy, didn't know about beta spending £40k a month on rent in London, on Harrods shopping trips, on hiring luxury Range Rover cars, on developing a Rs.900m business in Pakistan in just a few years. Not the sharpest judge in the land, but maybe one with lots to hide - with dirt on his hands. Maybe, just maybe.

How have I abandoned ship? Stop your nonsensical and unfounded arguments. I wasn't even born in Pakistan, so how have I abandoned it? Despite that, I have still given a lot to that country. Yet the moment I land there, Customs are asking for a bribe, and the same when I leave.

I might not be abandoning it, but many already are. Be grateful the likes of me contribute in so many positive ways, because if it weren't for our investments, then things would be a whole lot worse.

so CJ is bad? basically your mentality is like a typical WADera THAT EAT WHAT WE GIVE YOU OR die if you wish to do your own thing. CJ has solved cases for the poor man which ofcourse media doesn't highlight because it doesn't get it TRP ratings!

as for foreign investment yes clearly that has fallen to less than 1% for Pakistan. so you see clearly pakistan doesn't need YOU to FEED pakistan. it will actually do well without people who love to become Pakistani for their benefit and at the first moment things go bad they show their British ID and run.

do you know UK is a NET RECIEVER of remittance? so should the British nationals living abroad say be glad we are feeding you? same about china,brazil & philipnnes? the problem is Non resident british nationals with Pakistani roots are left behind in UK in terms of education & everything YET they come to Pakistan and expect themselves to be a superior breed that must get VIP treatment. & then they COMPLAIN

example is Rehman malik and all.

lower court corruption is rampant do you have any proof of that? and currently our judicary is the ONLY institution that is not on board with the corrupt government and opposition! hence the hue and cry! it has improved finally the courts are atleast looking into cases compared to before!

as for Pakistan wasn't breaking up then and is breaking up now i guess you have no idea of ground realities. because the SINDH card was at an all time high back then compared to now. Now besides the balochistan problem that was started by Musharraf Pakistan is relatively calmer and no political party can cry for seperation on basis of DEAD BODIES!