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Debate in Pak Army over OBL raid

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Debate in Pak Army over OBL raid


Published: May 20, 2011


WASHINGTON - A ‘raucous and broad’ internal debate is taking place within the Pakistan Army following the killing of Osama bin Laden this month in Abbottabad, as military leaders seek to overcome extraordinary public criticism as well as the “seething anger in barracks across the country” The Washington Post reported Thursday, citing unnamed Pakistani officers.

“Some of the outrage among the ranks stems from the fact that the Pakistani military failed to locate bin Laden or detect the stealth US raid on bin Laden’s compound, the newspaper said in a dispatch from Islamabad, according to officers and military analysts. But most of it is directed toward the United States, the dispatch said, a country, that, it underscores, has given billions of dollars to help sustain Pakistan’s counter-terrorism efforts but is now voicing rising concern that the country’s military is not dedicated to that fight.

The Post said Pakistani officers talk about the internal debate as “one that is unlikely to undermine the institution but that bodes poorly for US hopes of an expanded Pakistani effort against militants.”

To head off the discontent, the report pointed out Army Chief Gen Ashfaq Kayani, made town-hall-style appearances last week at five garrisons across the country, “Where he faced barbed questions from officers about the raid.” After a 45-minute address to the 5th Corps in Karachi, Kayani took queries for three hours, the newspaper said from those who attended. Attendees said questioners focused on the perceived affront in Abbottabad — and why Pakistan, in the words of one officer, did not “retaliate,” it said.

“It’s never good for a military of that size to have a feeling of resentment,” retired Lt-Gen Talat Masood, a security analyst, was quoted as saying. The discovery of bin Laden, he added, “has stung them as much as it has stung the whole world.”
“Even so, no officers interviewed said the bin Laden killing had convinced them that Pakistan needs to work harder to find terrorists or shift the focus of its defence strategy from archenemy India,” according to the dispatch. Instead, some expressed hope that their superiors would stand up to the United States, by either cutting ties or extracting guarantees of an end to unilateral US actions.

Pakistan should “immediately suspend cooperation with the US,” said one officer in Pakistan’s north, who, like others interviewed, spoke on the condition of anonymity because he was not allowed to speak publicly, the paper said. “In the lower ranks, anti-Americanism is at its highest.”

The United States, officers said, too rarely acknowledges that 140,000 Pakistani troops are deployed in the militant-riddled northwest, tasked with fighting fellow Muslims and compatriots. Nearly 3,000 Pakistani soldiers have been killed battling insurgents since 2001, according to the army. Recent accusations from Washington about Pakistani complicity with insurgents have prompted fresh reflections about that mission, they said.

“They want us to take out terrorists, and that’s what we are doing,” one lieutenant colonel was quoted as saying. “Look what’s happening in our cities — bombings everywhere. That’s the reaction for what we are doing.”

The bin Laden incident has also shaken Pakistan’s senior ranks, where debate about an army offensive against the militant Haqqani network — which the United States has repeatedly requested — has raged for some time. Though the army still resists taking it on, the bin Laden killing has convinced some top generals that there needs to be “change all around,” the paper said, citing a person familiar with their thinking.
 
Revolt against military or political leadership? In both cases there will a great loss to the country.

there is a history of revolts in Army against its high command,
The one that I would like to mention is the murder of Musaaf Ali Mir, and then revolt by PAF against Musharraf, head of Armed forces. we all know the issue.

now what I am interested to know is, whether there are signs shows by some segments that may revolt against Kiyani and high command ? or maybe take some individual act to settle down his grief?
 
there is a history of revolts in Army against its high command,
The one that I would like to mention is the murder of Musaaf Ali Mir, and then revolt by PAF against Musharraf, head of Armed forces. we all know the issue.

now what I am interested to know is, whether there are signs shows by some segments that may revolt against Kiyani and high command ? or maybe take some individual act to settle down his grief?

Revolt! pls get your facts straight!
 
A big fat lie, No one can question the Generals especially the ranks below Maj general( even a major general was once kicked out of Army for saying some thing which his seniors didn't like). If they do so, they are strictly penalized for questioning the higher authorities(there are many cases of that). So a debate is going on? BS! Pakistan Army has been utterly disgraced by this OBL raid fiasco & is now desperate to redeem itself.
 
Kayani, Pasha and the hypocrite sell out top brass of Pakistan has to go... One of these idiot Generals was saying a while back that Drone attacks are actually a good thing for Pakistan... With such people in Pak Army, it can only be a mad man who thinks this Army is capable of delivering any defence... Remember this much that there were numerous Generals within the Baathist Iraq that took bribes and did not order their juniors to defend Iraq when the Americans invaded... The sincere amongst our policy makers and armed forces should know this and work hard to remove these anti Islamic and anti Pakistan forces from our military...

as for your question Leader... A coup is not needed... Kayani and Pasha and his type of scum can only stay in power for some time... policies are more important than people and the policy should be that of what the people want from their leaders instead of what America wants out of them...
 
Revolt! pls get your facts straight!

I can understand your faith and love for Army, but by all accounts this army as an institution has never been professional... and maybe its the case with other armies as well...
I dont want to go into history(if you want me, will open a dedicated thread for that)

anyways, we all know that official stance of Army's WOT, and then OBL's existence right under its nose, says alot for those who want to speculate... and on and off we have heard from Amreeka that a segment sympathizes with terrorists, now what if the same sympathizers who allegedly also protected OBL, tried to take revenge from high command?
 
Revolt against military or political leadership? In both cases there will a great loss to the country.
 
there is a history of revolts in Army against its high command,
The one that I would like to mention is the murder of Musaaf Ali Mir, and then revolt by PAF against Musharraf, head of Armed forces. we all know the issue.

now what I am interested to know is, whether there are signs shows by some segments that may revolt against Kiyani and high command ? or maybe take some individual act to settle down his grief?


Si,r

Please elaborateh on your comments about Mushaf Ali Mir----I would like to hear more. Thank you.
 
Si,r

Please elaborateh on your comments about Mushaf Ali Mir----I would like to hear more. Thank you.

if its not going to get deleted, the in easiest words the story goes like this:

Musaaf ali mir refused to let americans operate in afghanistan from Pakistan air bases. he with his wife remained house arrested for a week or so, and later when he remained defiant was sent on aeroplane, bugged to crash, with his wife and other officers, his supporters then planned an assassination attempt on musharraf, in which he hardly survived. then Kayani was put to investigate, about 57 officers of PAF were convicted and faced court martial, thats how mainly kayani got his way up in the ladder.
 
Why would Mushaf Mir do such a thing----is it out of treachery or is it out of arrogance that the past air force chiefs had shown the state.

If he really did something like that---then he did meet his fair judgement. Asghar Khan calls his counter part in india and says--if you don't use your air force---I won't mind using mine----A Rahim---when informed about missile gun boats being towed behind an indian naval ship does not follow through to investigate---says let the navy be on its own----army asks for air cover to protect its tank columns from enemy aircraft---air force says---we cannot---the atalntique flies into and enemy missile and last but not least---terrorist walk through the air base to destroy naval aircraft when the country is at war---.

I am sorry the way it ended---but air chiefs need to learn that they don't run the country's foreign policy and if there is a war---they need to show where they are required to.
 
if its not going to get deleted, the in easiest words the story goes like this:

Musaaf ali mir refused to let americans operate in afghanistan from Pakistan air bases. he with his wife remained house arrested for a week or so, and later when he remained defiant was sent on aeroplane, bugged to crash, with his wife and other officers, his supporters then planned an assassination attempt on musharraf, in which he hardly survived. then Kayani was put to investigate, about 57 officers of PAF were convicted and faced court martial, thats how mainly kayani got his way up in the ladder.

Why would Mushaf Mir do such a thing----is it out of treachery or is it out of arrogance that the past air force chiefs had shown the state.

If he really did something like that---then he did meet his fair judgement. Asghar Khan calls his counter part in india and says--if you don't use your air force---I won't mind using mine----A Rahim---when informed about missile gun boats being towed behind an indian naval ship does not follow through to investigate---says let the navy be on its own----army asks for air cover to protect its tank columns from enemy aircraft---air force says---we cannot---the atalntique flies into and enemy missile and last but not least---terrorist walk through the air base to destroy naval aircraft when the country is at war---.

I am sorry the way it ended---but air chiefs need to learn that they don't run the country's foreign policy and if there is a war---they need to show where they are required to.

The whole Mushaf was going against Musharraf thing is utter , complete BS.
God knows what fiction writer came up with this.. and the very gullible or those fond of conspiracies eating it up .
Mushaf Ali mir is dead because the pilot of the F-27 had on previous occasions tried to show off his skills to the Chief.. and this time made others pay along with him. The approach to Kohat AB passes over a crevice between peaks.. which requires the pilot to maintain a safe altitude above it. In this case however. .. the pilot was well below safe altitude , tried to pass between the peaks.. was caught in a down draft.. and slammed into the mountain.
That is all that it is. plain and simple.

Kayani got his way up the ladder by being a good jeeves..
He was GOC during kargil.. although he was unhappy with the op.
kept his head down.. and did what the boss said.. that is how you make it up the ladder.
The ISI would have investigated the assassination attempt no matter who was there.
Instead of the cheap urdu daily type mirch masala stories.. please think reasonably.
 

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