Death and Name Calling

[Iggy]

May be not. And I am not talking about handing over Kashmir. I am just talking about engaging the separatist. Please dont extrapolate my words

I was also not talking about Handing over Kashmir or implying you wanted that. I was saying that the issue of militancy is not about Kashmir. If it was, then it wouldnt be called as a religious duty or Holywar.

 

[laphroaig]

but then your definition of Indian is much narrower than avg.

Yup. You would be the one to know.

Who do I remind you of? Goebbels??

 

[Spectre]

Didn't take you for a Terror apologist.

Thats probably because I am not. Its not for nothing I have been banned three times on PDF for periods stretching from 1 month to three during less than a year I have been on pDF. Those who know me also know what my views are on terrorism. I just dont feel the need to justify my love for India.

Yup. You would be the one to know.

Who do I remind you of? Goebbels??

Nah! thats doing you too much credit. You remind me of this nice gentleman on PDF with an alias of Vsdoc, atleast conversation with you ain't boring - I have to spend two more hours as my flight is delayed and this thread made for nice diversion.

I was also not talking about Handing over Kashmir or implying you wanted that. I was saying that the issue of militancy is not about Kashmir. If it was, then it wouldnt be called as a religious duty or Holywar.

Holy way and stuff is Pakistani rationalization which i dont give two hoots about. I am more concerned about Indian Kashmiris and their grievances.

 

[Iggy]

Holy way and stuff is Pakistani rationalization which i dont give two hoots about. I am more concerned about Indian Kashmiris and their grievances.

Most of them are fighting the same shit!! If this is not, why they drove of Kashmiri Pandits in the first place?

 

[Spectre]

Most of them are fighting the same shit!! If this is not, why they drove of Kashmiri Pandits in the first place?

No justification. What happened with Pandits was a tragedy and a crime and those responsible have been killed or jailed since then, some are reformed and some live like Gilani live on whims of Union Govt of India. That doesnt equal the scales though - only when Pandits are rehabilitated will scales balance.

But that in no way suggest that Kashmiris dont have legitimate grievances.

 

[ranjeet]

Thats probably because I am not. Its not for nothing I have been banned three times on PDF for periods stretching from 1 month to three during less than a year I have been on pDF. Those who know me also know what my views are on terrorism. I just dont feel the need to justify my love for India.

No one asked you to justify anything but yet you justified Burhan wani picking up the gun against Indian state.

 

[Spectre]

No one asked you to justify anything but yet you justified Burhan wani picking up the gun against Indian state.

Not Burhan wani specifically but yeah I still maintain that some of them might have due cause. But then this is war and not a law and order situation and in war both sides commit atrocities and after sometime people even forget why they are fighting. All that remains is hate.

This is what is happening in ME. All I am trying to do is talk about breaking the circle.

 

[DesiGuy1403]

No justification. What happened with Pandits was a tragedy and a crime and those responsible have been killed or jailed since then, some are reformed and some live like Gilani live on whims of Union Govt of India. That doesnt equal the scales though - only when Pandits are rehabilitated will scales balance.

Sorry sir but you did not answer the question.

The day Kashmiri Pandits were driven out was the day they bared themselves.
Let's not delude themselves thinking they are fighting for some mythical independence. They are fighting the same war, ISIS, Taliban or any other terrorists are fighting for.

 

[ranjeet]

Not Burhan wani specifically but yeah I still maintain that some of them might have due cause. But then this is war and not a law and order situation and in war both sides commit atrocities and after sometime people even forget why they are fighting. All that remains is hate.

This is what is happening in ME. All I am trying to do is talk about breaking the circle.

Kashmir issue started with hate towards hindus, well Hindu men to be specific after all Kashmiri Muslims showed their love towards Hindu women when such slogans were coined back in 1989.

Asi gachi Pakistan, Bata ros ta batanev san.
(We want Pakistan, with Kashmiri Hindu women and without their men-folk).

 

[DesiGuy1403]

This is a war that has been going on for hundreds of years on Indian sub continent.
40000 temples destroyed and millions perished.

Wonder when people will wake up and start calling this crap for what it "really" is.
Have we as Indians have lost what ever is left of our courage to even acknowledge the facts?!

 

[Iggy]

But that in no way suggest that Kashmiris dont have legitimate grievances.

Which state doesn't have? Is that mean we all should pick up our arms and ask for freedom?

 

[Nilgiri]

Evil relative. I had hoped that people here were mature enough to see that not all is black and white.

Well some people have every right to see things in black and white regarding this individual when he himself saw things the same way with respect to India. You don't fight a war successfully by exploring the nuances of shades of grey. Thats just how the human species is wired I'm afraid.

In the end all i would like to say that good and evil classifications and Diwali metaphors are not relevent here. IA is not RAM and Burhan no RAVAN. Saying so would be to give both of them more credit then they deserve.

You are making the metaphor into absolute interpretation. Never did I say one entirely fits with the other....its the concept of evil vs good recognition and reaction when resolution is achieved. This is left to the individual...we should not preach and impose....rather you can judge internally for yourself and seek to improve thyself so you may be a model in deeds to the others around you.

Guys like Burhan had due cause to hate India and Indian army, many like him have had their mothers and sisters raped, their siblings killed for no reason by Indian army. They weren't born hating India, some of them learnt it due to their experiences.

You see thats where he's different from someone with true virtue. He made India his enemy (directly or complicitly I am unfamiliar with the details) and not just the Indian army (or more specifically the soldiers responsible). If one is fine with targetting a whole population on the accounts of a few, then one is not of virtue.

So don't give him a free pass emotionally and/or morally for labeling an entire country as an enemy because of the actions (real and/or perceived) of a few.....while not giving a free pass to those that indulge in celebrating his death and what it means for the very country they are part of as far as they perceive it.

Regards.

 

[Spectre]

Well some people have every right to see things in black and white regarding this individual when he himself saw things the same way with respect to India. You don't fight a war successfully by exploring the nuances of shades of grey. Thats just how the human species is wired I'm afraid.




You are making the metaphor into absolute interpretation. Never did I say one entirely fits with the other....its the concept of evil vs good recognition and reaction when resolution is achieved. This is left to the individual...we should not preach and impose....rather you can judge internally for yourself and seek to improve thyself so you may be a model in deeds to the others around you.



You see thats where he's different from someone with true virtue. He made India his enemy (directly or complicitly I am unfamiliar with the details) and not just the Indian army (or more specifically the soldiers responsible). If one is fine with targetting a whole population on the accounts of a few, then one is not of virtue.

So don't give him a free pass emotionally and/or morally for labeling an entire country as an enemy because of the actions (real and/or perceived) of a few.....while not giving a free pass to those that indulge in celebrating his death and what it means for the very country they are part of as far as they perceive it.

Regards.

Broadly agree.

Which state doesn't have? Is that mean we all should pick up our arms and ask for freedom?

Reductionist argument. History of Kashmir is unique because of Nehruvian blunder where he promised Plebiscite. Its another thing Pakistan reneged on its end.

 

[laphroaig]

This is a war that has been going on for hundreds of years on Indian sub continent.
40000 temples destroyed and millions perished.

Wonder when people will wake up and start calling this crap for what it "really" is.
Have we as Indians have lost what ever is left of our courage to even acknowledge the facts?!

Agree. This is a very old war. And it's not done yet.

Not all Indians.

 

[Star Wars]

This is a war that has been going on for hundreds of years on Indian sub continent.
40000 temples destroyed and millions perished.

Wonder when people will wake up and start calling this crap for what it "really" is.
Have we as Indians have lost what ever is left of our courage to even acknowledge the facts?!

No matter how many times we get attacked, murdered,killed raped and chased with our land taken and temples demolished there will still be some lunatic out there out to justify them..