“Dear President, how can we help your country?” - AIIB

[Shotgunner51]

While most recent news revolve around the funding side of AIIB, like who is joining, who isn’t, I would like to explore the asset side of it. So put it simply, AIIB asking your country “Dear President, how can we help your country?”.

The name of AIIB already implies clearly, infrastructure, on which the bank will focus its attention and assistance. So, what is infrastructure? Literally it refers to the fundamental facilities and systems serving a country (or city, an area) including the services and facilities necessary for its economy to function.

• It typically defined as the physical components of interrelated systems providing commodities and services essential to enable, sustain, or enhance societal living conditions.
• The "hard" infrastructure as mentioned above refers to the large physical networks necessary for the functioning of a modern industrial nation, whereas "soft" infrastructure refers to all the institutions which are required to maintain the economic, health, and cultural and social standards of a country, such as the financial system, the education system, the health care system, the system of government, and law enforcement, as well as emergency services.
• "Green" infrastructure is a concept that highlights the importance of the natural environment in decisions about land use planning. In particular there is an emphasis on the "life support" functions provided by a network of natural ecosystems, with an emphasis on interconnectivity to support long-term sustainability. Examples include clean water and healthy soils, as well as the more anthropocentric functions such as recreation and providing shade and shelter in and around towns and cities.
• Even in a market-oriented economy, one characteristic is that infrastructure is public-driven, and public-administered. Involvement of the private sector through various forms of PPP (Public-Private Partnership) could be introduced for efficiency purposes however the public nature of it is unaltered.

For the sake of convenience in planning and execution, I would group infrastructure into the following 10 categories for poll:

1. Road, Expressway, Bridge
2. Modernized mass transit (passenger), Rail (passenger & freight)
3. Ports; Seaport (freight), airport (passenger & freight)
4. Energy (e.g. energy reserve, electricity generation, power grid)
5. Telecommunications & computing (e.g. broadband mobile & fixed line, cloud, supercomputer)
6. Hydraulic engineering (Canals, Dams, Reservoirs, Sewage)
7. Waste Disposal (solid, liquid, air)
8. Public spaces (parks, museums, sports facilities)
9. Public housing, healthcare & education
10. Emergency services (police, ambulance, fire, disaster relief)​

The AIIB was formed to fill up the gap between demand and supply of fund for infrastructure. So when a fund is appropriated for your country, what’s your preferred category of application?

 

[Yizhi]

great thread again! @Shotgunner51

as a road trip lover and intensive user of China expressway, i'd like to see more road/expressway being built not only in China, but also AIIB member countries.

according to Wiki & CIA Factbook:
List of countries by length of expressways - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

from the data we can see clearly although China tops the list in total length surpassing US, per capita wise is still low compared with developed world. also much work is needed for building world class expressways in AIIB counties.

@AndrewJin bro pls come with your railway fan spirit!

@TaiShang @cnleio @Edison Chen @Keel and others, support needed here.

 

[DoTell]

I support the initiative. But, I can't help but to remind you about the political side of the infrastructure business. The fact is politics plays a huge role in infra decisions due to the amount of money involved and impact on people's lives. We (China) have been burned by this time and time again. Mexico blatantly tore up the signed HSR contract. Myanmar halted the dam project that was already well under way. Sri Lanka appears to have borrowed a page from Myanmar and is toying with us on the port project.

We need to understand who we are dealing with. These are mostly politicians from "democratic" countries. As incredible as it may sound, some of those who are supposed to represent their country actually may not have their country's best interest at heart. They only care about their own voters' (i.e. supporters') opinions, their own jobs and legacy. Often times they do things just to show to their voters that they are "tough". The political infighting amongst the different parties within the country can spill over to our business. We can never trust any particular leader.

International politics is another potential "X" factor. You think you are building roads in Nepal, but India thinks you are preparing for military invasion. Uncle Sam may voice "concerns" on just about anything at any time, creating havoc in our deals.

Anyway, as business men and engineers you can't help but to think of getting the jobs and finish the jobs. Just keep in mind that politicians are never far behind trying to screw you over

 

[Azizam]

I support the initiative. But, I can't help but to remind you about the political side of the infrastructure business. The fact is politics plays a huge role in infra decisions due to the amount of money involved and impact on people's lives. We (China) have been burned by this time and time again. Mexico blatantly tore up the signed HSR contract. Myanmar halted the dam project that was already well under way. Sri Lanka appears to have borrowed a page from Myanmar and is toying with us on the port project.

We need to understand who we are dealing with. These are mostly politicians from "democratic" countries. As incredible as it may sound, some of those who are supposed to represent their country actually may not have their country's best interest at heart. They only care about their own voters' (i.e. supporters') opinions, their own jobs and legacy. Often times they do things just to show to their voters that they are "tough". The political infighting amongst the different parties within the country can spill over to our business. We can never trust any particular leader.

International politics is another potential "X" factor. You think you are building roads in Nepal, but India thinks you are preparing for military invasion. Uncle Sam may voice "concerns" on just about anything at any time, creating havoc in our deals.

Anyway, as business men and engineers you can't help but to think of getting the jobs and finish the jobs. Just keep in mind that politicians are never far behind trying to screw you over

The problem is with the democratic developing countries. When the government changes, the policies change too. In such countries, there are no clear national goals but rather political goals of each party. So, unfortunately instances of messing with infrastructure projects are common in those countries. As you said, another problem with those countries is that they bow down to the illogical demands of the majority for vote gains which is what's happening in Sri Lanka. Before signing up for projects, China should make it clear about the consequences of violating agreements and assess how reliable the party that it's dealing with. It can be done easily in Asian countries considering the economic might China holds.

 

[AndrewJin]

great thread again! @Shotgunner51

as a road trip lover and intensive user of China expressway, i'd like to see more road/expressway being built not only in China, but also AIIB member countries.

according to Wiki & CIA Factbook:
List of countries by length of expressways - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
View attachment 212816
View attachment 212818
View attachment 212819
View attachment 212820
View attachment 212821

from the data we can see clearly although China tops the list in total length surpassing US, per capita wise is still low compared with developed world. also much work is needed for building world class expressways in AIIB counties.

@AndrewJin bro pls come with your railway fan spirit!

@TaiShang @cnleio @Edison Chen @Keel and others, support needed here.

Dear Yizhi, I am well informed of the recent achievements of Chinese national and provincial expressway. However, concerning the population density, our expressway network is till not a big scale. We shall not content ourselves but plan and construct more in the coming 13th 5-year plan. At least the expressway network in my province is far from enough. Quite often drivers get stuck on the provincial expressways for hours. And a lot of counties have no access to expressway.
btw, the number of Chinese national expressway is outdated.
From Wiki

Only national expressways are illustrated
(Red, from Beijing; Blue, horizontal; Green, vertical)

Provincial expressways are maintained by provincial government. Then the problem comes with different fiscal capacity of different local government. I think AIIB could also financially help provinces in Central China and Western China with expressway construction. And of course, put more efforts into developing countries, especially developing countries in Asia.
@Indian Patriot @Rajaraja Chola @Viny et al
Let's build them in backward mountainous regions, desert, and coastlines, connect every country and township to facilitate people's life and boost local economy!

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

Dear Yizhi, I am well informed of the recent achievements of Chinese national and provincial expressway. However, concerning the population density, our expressway network is till not a big scale. We shall not content ourselves but plan and construct more in the coming 13th 5-year plan. At least the expressway network in my province is far from enough. Quite often drivers get stuck on the provincial expressways for hours. And a lot of counties have no access to expressway.
btw, the number of Chinese national expressway is outdated.
From Wiki
View attachment 212952

Only national expressways are illustrated
(Red, from Beijing; Blue, horizontal; Green, vertical)
View attachment 212953
Provincial expressways are maintained by provincial government. Then the problem comes with different fiscal capacity of different local government. I think AIIB could also financially help provinces in Central China and Western China with expressway construction. And of course, put more efforts into developing countries, especially developing countries in Asia.
@Indian Patriot @Rajaraja Chola @Viny et al
Let's build them in backward mountainous regions, desert, and coastlines, connect every country and township to facilitate people's life and boost local economy!

I am not sure of such large scale completion of such projects in short time. China has the advantage of being a large nation, with less population density, and most importantly a Communist nation capable of getting lands quite forcefully (debatable).

I was more impressed by the 10 lane roads built all around China. Obviously, now, the cost of production in China have increased manifold, and the labor rates are not cheap anymore.

But China is still advantageous for its infrastructure which is fast, reliable which makes up for its high labor cost.

 

[Srinivas]

India can execute its own infrastructure projects, we have the capability !

 

[East or West India Best]

Roads, rail, energy, and waste.

 

[AndrewJin]

less population density

No, most Chinese live in one third of China.

a Communist nation

You think?

getting lands quite forcefully

You can't do that now. Compensation is very high for citizens who lose their land. Shenyang-Beijing HSR has been delayed for five years due to opposition from a community.
That's why building infrastructure has to be as early as possible before human resources and compensation is too high to afford for the local government. You cannot wait for general Indians to be well-off then build HSR and a huge network of expressway. See the case of South Korea, Japan and Taiwan.

India can execute its own infrastructure projects, we have the capability !

No, it cannot be accomplished by a single country, see the case of Delhi metro.

 

[Srinivas]

No, it cannot be accomplished by a single country, see the case of Delhi metro.

Yes it can be !

 

[AndrewJin]

Yes it can be !

Technology, experiences and money, they are pivotal to any infrastructure projects.

 

[Shotgunner51]

Dear Yizhi, I am well informed of the recent achievements of Chinese national and provincial expressway. However, concerning the population density, our expressway network is till not a big scale. We shall not content ourselves but plan and construct more in the coming 13th 5-year plan. At least the expressway network in my province is far from enough. Quite often drivers get stuck on the provincial expressways for hours. And a lot of counties have no access to expressway.
btw, the number of Chinese national expressway is outdated.
From Wiki
View attachment 212952

Only national expressways are illustrated
(Red, from Beijing; Blue, horizontal; Green, vertical)
View attachment 212953
Provincial expressways are maintained by provincial government. Then the problem comes with different fiscal capacity of different local government. I think AIIB could also financially help provinces in Central China and Western China with expressway construction. And of course, put more efforts into developing countries, especially developing countries in Asia.
@Indian Patriot @Rajaraja Chola @Viny et al
Let's build them in backward mountainous regions, desert, and coastlines, connect every country and township to facilitate people's life and boost local economy!

Thanks for update!

• Yizhi's data of 84,946 km for China was 2012 data, by now the mileage should be 111,950 km.
• Though China has surpassed USA by 47% and tops the world in expressways size, given that fact inland provinces need more infra, and that China's population is more, the total mileage should doubles the current size, reaching 200,000 km, i.e. China has to build another USA's size.
• There are a lot of rooms for other countries to grow, say India, which has only ~1% of China's size of expressways.
• With already huge building capacity, technology & experience, Chinese firms can help other countries through AIIB to build.

Also in this category, China has tech, professional equipments and experienced engineers in building the biggest network of bridges, tunnels, that form part of the expressways (& metro, HSR). China surely can help other countries to build as well, samples:

​

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

India can execute its own infrastructure projects, we have the capability !

Its not about capability. Its about resources now. We can let China and Japan invest their unspent forex and make a profit out of it.
Its a win win for both.

 

[Srinivas]

Its not about capability. Its about resources now. We can let China and Japan invest their unspent forex and make a profit out of it.
Its a win win for both.

India needs tech and some investment, Majority of investment can be generated by India. There are various means I guess.

I am not against foreign investment from China or Japan, But I am against monopoly.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

No, most Chinese live in one third of China.


You think?


You can't do that now. Compensation is very high for citizens who lose their land. Shenyang-Beijing HSR has been delayed for five years due to opposition from a community.
That's why building infrastructure has to be as early as possible before human resources and compensation is too high to afford for the local government. You cannot wait for general Indians to be well-off then build HSR and a huge network of expressway. See the case of South Korea, Japan and Taiwan.


No, it cannot be accomplished by a single country, see the case of Delhi metro.

We should have done many things before. With the advent of social media, every project is scrutinized like never before. Before even a idea can take place opposition for it begins.