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Deal to Use China's BDS Technology

That's great. Does it mean we will also have license to use its military version or just the civilian one? If the military version is in the deal then it is an excellent news.

Also, does it mean we can easily control our UAVs in long ranges (more than 1000 km) or it requires some additional satellites?

@Daneshmand @Shotgunner51
 
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That's great. Does it mean we will also have license to use its military version or just the civilian one? If the military version is in the deal then it is an excellent news.

Also, does it mean we can easily control our UAVs in long ranges (more than 1000 km) or it requires some additional satellites?

@Daneshmand @Shotgunner51


No news revealed on military grade co-op yet, it might have been discussed behind close doors, well all yet to be confirmed if both sides don't prefer ambiguity on this agenda. IMO given the ever-deepening bilateral relationship and common geo-strategic vision, the chance is highly probable.

Regarding the range, since the system is global, hence there is no limit on range. The satellites are already there (Phase II has completed, 14 in orbit) or will be launched as planned (Phase III, the final phase, is ongoing. 3 in orbit, 14 to go), no extra satellites are required.
 
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Why opting for 10 meter accuracy when they already are partners in Galileo GNSS? This is a dangerous investment for Iran.
1st - For commercial purposes there is Galileo, GLONASS and GPS and no need of BeiDou or Compass experimental design!
2nd- In case of military usage you run into the same issues with BeiDou than you may run with GLONASS. They may shut it down for our area anyway.
3rd- and more importantly, you can never trust what is feed through Chinese authorities. There is a save face culture and culture of vague governing it all. Hiding the truth is a virtue. I personally experienced it both in Huawei and working on their C802.
4th- It is expensive for commercial use. Chips already have all GNSS receivers except BeiDou and cheaper to use. Why opting for new one. Integration of network with it is not a big deal. It is a totally different layer and you can have any network layer adopted with current systems.

I just don't see why Iran needs to co-operate with Chinese on BeiDou! There is no merit in it. Start your own. The Knowledge is out there and if you want to invest 50 to 100 million dollars. You can use the same building your own local version of it! Chinese are not a reliable partners in any R & D!

From technology standpoint BeiDou, GPS and Galileo are all the same system and the frequency that they occupy is nearly the same. Only GLONASS presents a unique FDMA on top of CDMA method which is a characteristic of Russian ingenuity for 1974 design. This is not a surprise, well Chinese are copying what they learnt from Galileo and GPS on their home grown design! Iran would not learn anything new on this approach and on military basis I prefer to be independent and not in the hands of Chinese so I agree with SINAN build your own national grid!
 
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There is only one catch here: Galileo and BeiDou frequencies overlap and if Chinese BeiDou uses it first the ITU will grant the frequency to BeiDou although Galileo had signed for the frequency first! If this happens then BeiDou has an advantage over Galileo! I don't know if Galileo used all the frequencies it signed for! If they do then BeiDou needs to see if it is permitted to use it and this is a big uncertainty which makes commercial usage of it in jeopardy!
 
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Why opting for 10 meter accuracy when they already are partners in Galileo GNSS? This is a dangerous investment for Iran.
1st - For commercial purposes there is Galileo, GLONASS and GPS and no need of BeiDou or Compass experimental design!
2nd- In case of military usage you run into the same issues with BeiDou than you may run with GLONASS. They may shut it down for our area anyway.
3rd- and more importantly, you can never trust what is feed through Chinese authorities. There is a save face culture and culture of vague governing it all. Hiding the truth is a virtue. I personally experienced it both in Huawei and working on their C802.
4th- It is expensive for commercial use. Chips already have all GNSS receivers except BeiDou and cheaper to use. Why opting for new one. Integration of network with it is not a big deal. It is a totally different layer and you can have any network layer adopted with current systems.

I just don't see why Iran needs to co-operate with Chinese on BeiDou! There is no merit in it. Start your own. The Knowledge is out there and if you want to invest 50 to 100 million dollars. You can use the same building your own local version of it! Chinese are not a reliable partners in any R & D!

From technology standpoint BeiDou, GPS and Galileo are all the same system and the frequency that they occupy is nearly the same. Only GLONASS presents a unique FDMA on top of CDMA method which is a characteristic of Russian ingenuity for 1974 design. This is not a surprise, well Chinese are copying what they learnt from Galileo and GPS on their home grown design! Iran would not learn anything new on this approach and on military basis I prefer to be independent and not in the hands of Chinese so I agree with SINAN build your own national grid!

1- The reason is to have more options. Iran also had some talks with Russians for a similar deal. Basically these systems need ground stations around the globe to increase their accuracy, and Iran wants to have ground stations for Beidou and Glonass in Iran. The problem being Iran can not entirely trust GPS and Galileo to be available since if the West ever tries to shut it down or degrade the service for Iran, then Iran will at least have two more options with some minimal stakes in them (the ground stations).

2- You can to this problem with all of such systems not only Glonass and Beidou but also with GPS and Galileo, and not only the encrypted signal but also civilian. After all this is someone else's system and not yours.

3- I would not use those terms you used, but at the end of the day, we have to accept the fact that we do not have the technologies in many areas. And the reason for that being our backwardness in STEM. So either we will have to depend on someone else whether US / China / Russia or develop our own.

4- Not that we can design and manufacture the chips either but even if we could, still it would not solve the problem since chip is only the receiving part. The actual system belongs to someone else and if you do not have your own then you are basically on your own.

If things were that easy as you say. When was the last time Iran designed and built an atomic clock or autonomous systems required for building such a system? In addition to these, Iran has had trouble with its SLV program too. One option would be for Iran to design and build its own regional positioning system which other countries are also doing for example India, and augment it with as many available global systems such as Beidou, Glonass, GPS and Galileo. But for this, Iran must at the very least develop technologies, it currently does not have, eg. the technology for atomic clocks, the heavy lift SLV and reliable autonomous systems.

And the military side of this though important on its own is not as important as its civil applications. You must know how much a modern economy is dependent on such systems from trucking to civil aviation and from automatic inventory systems to safety services. Iran needs and has to learn to concentrate on civil application of science and technology before its military applications. And there is no shame learning it from China when US or EU will never cooperate with Iran in this regard and when Iran's total R&D budget is just a few small billion dollars.

That's great. Does it mean we will also have license to use its military version or just the civilian one? If the military version is in the deal then it is an excellent news.

Also, does it mean we can easily control our UAVs in long ranges (more than 1000 km) or it requires some additional satellites?

@Daneshmand @Shotgunner51

There is nothing in the news that says it. The website of the company refers to civil applications of it. But even if there is some agreement, they can not publicize it since the military sanctions are still going to be on Iran for next few years and this being a military product can not be sold to Iran.

Of course it will help with navigation of the UAV's, but Iran has been using open signals of GPS for that since a long time. The main problem for Iran's UAV program is the lack of satellite communication links which allow to operate a UAV beyond line of sight in great ranges. Another problem is to develop technologies such as contrast lock or scene matching, millimeter wave and semi-active laser technologies for small and cheap enough guided missiles.
 
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1- The reason is to have more options. Iran also had some talks with Russians for a similar deal. Basically these systems need ground stations around the globe to increase their accuracy, and Iran wants to have ground stations for Beidou and Glonass in Iran. The problem being Iran can not entirely trust GPS and Galileo to be available since if the West ever tries to shut it down or degrade the service for Iran, then Iran will at least have two more options with some minimal stakes in them (the ground stations).

2- You can to this problem with all of such systems not only Glonass and Beidou but also with GPS and Galileo, and not only the encrypted signal but also civilian. After all this is someone else's system and not yours.

3- I would not use those terms you used, but at the end of the day, we have to accept the fact that we do not have the technologies in many areas. And the reason for that being our backwardness in STEM. So either we will have to depend on someone else whether US / China / Russia or develop our own.

4- Not that we can design and manufacture the chips either but even if we could, still it would not solve the problem since chip is only the receiving part. The actual system belongs to someone else and if you do not have your own then you are basically on your own.

If things were that easy as you say. When was the last time Iran designed and built an atomic clock or autonomous systems required for building such a system? In addition to these, Iran has had trouble with its SLV program too. One option would be for Iran to design and build its own regional positioning system which other countries are also doing for example India, and augment it with as many available global systems such as Beidou, Glonass, GPS and Galileo. But for this, Iran must at the very least develop technologies, it currently does not have, eg. the technology for atomic clocks, the heavy lift SLV and reliable autonomous systems.

And the military side of this though important on its own is not as important as its civil applications. You must know how much a modern economy is dependent on such systems from trucking to civil aviation and from automatic inventory systems to safety services. Iran needs and has to learn to concentrate on civil application of science and technology before its military applications. And there is no shame learning it from China when US or EU will never cooperate with Iran in this regard and when Iran's total R&D budget is just a few small billion dollars.



There is nothing in the news that says it. The website of the company refers to civil applications of it. But even if there is some agreement, they can not publicize it since the military sanctions are still going to be on Iran for next few years and this being a military product can not be sold to Iran.

Of course it will help with navigation of the UAV's, but Iran has been using open signals of GPS for that since a long time. The main problem for Iran's UAV program is the lack of satellite communication links which allow to operate a UAV beyond line of sight in great ranges. Another problem is to develop technologies such as contrast lock or scene matching, millimeter wave and semi-active laser technologies for small and cheap enough guided missiles.

Let me answer your points in reverse order, but before all I like to say no one says go and develop it now. What I am saying is that there is no point working with Chinese and paying them hundreds of millions for BeiDou when it is a copy and paste of GPS and Galileo (I can tell you exactly what they copied from where!) That is Chinese typical attitude. In Optical networks they copied Ciena technology and stole their IP, in the rest of the technologies that are crucial and strategic they do the same and then flood the market with cheap designs and products! This all done with the backing of state and military! ZTE, Huawei all are the same. By the way same Huawei and ZTE destroyed Iranian digital switch technology. It is treason working with them. I was told by my Chinese manager to copy the Synchronization from another vendor with the blue prints! Of course I didn't comply! So what I am saying is form experience! I am neither a diplomat nor a PDF and this is my experience. Now back to the topic, IMU/INS integration and aggregate systems is my job:

4- Chip developments not an issue if the system belongs to someone else. You use available chips or IP's and they are all over the place for the existing ones.
3- I don't agree on STEM part. We have well known figures in Geomatics for this purpose besides as said the technology for such systems are well known. Best thing is to spend million dollar and have the Geomatics brains that one even published an encyclopedia define a road map before jumping in the wagon with Chinese!
2- For Civilian purposes there is no issue using any of the systems available now. A combination of GLONASS and GPS ensures good reception on all inclinations on the globe. You can add BeiDou but it doesn't add anything new unless Chinese use the allocated frequency sooner than Galileo.
1- Yes, Specially the Russian one due to its method of GNSS. Ground stations calculate satellite positions, synchronize frames, correct for ionospheric error and gravitational error if it is an option for the station and upload information to the satellite. All of them need such stations. Now the question is, which one is cheaper and more reliable.

Regarding the clock:
Galileo has the highest precision clock on board, "Hydrogen maser" and (GPS, BeiDou) use rubidium clocks while GPS and Glonass use Cesium clock. As far as I know, usage of Atomic clock can not be restricted or blocked. I don't think that would be an issue.

Regarding the SLV:
Once again not that go and do it now, the point is no need for it use the existing ones. If crucial and strategic then Chinese are no different to Russians and everyone else on this matter. But on SLV you can have India or Russia send it to space.

Regarding the civilian use:
Exactly for civilian use there is no limitation for Iran. Regarding the R & D both Europeans and US will cooperate so will Canada, if there is a will on doing it. Where do you think all our Geomatics minds have studied or worked? This is not the reason for cooperation with China on this regard. For civilian purposes no one restricts Iran.

At the end, working with Chinese and Russians on this regard is not necessary after the deal if leader knows how to behave and dosn't bite once in a while) The technology is mature and old. The SDR (software defined Radio), Geomatics, RTL and electronics and the RF design for GPS frequencies (~1xxx MHz and max 20 MHz BW ) all is in hand and it is an opportunity to define the project and have Iranian young engineers learnand spend the 200 million euros or dollars that you want to give to Chinese! if necessary! (keyword is if necessary)

If you get free ride from Chinese go for it. If they offer cooperation at reasonable price then it is good why not. But Chinese never offer anything free and usually take more than they offer. That has been their attitude everywhere and specially when dealing with Iran on all projects!

The reason Chinese went for BeiDou is not that it is better! No it is cut and paste technology and inferior in accuracy to US recent 20MHz bandwidth. It is because then have the money and they can and they need to be independent in this technology and the precision they get is sufficient for their purpose! If Iran wants to be independent then BeiDou doesn't offer that other than that use the existing ones avoid paying the Chinese R & D!
 
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Why opting for 10 meter accuracy when they already are partners in Galileo GNSS? This is a dangerous investment for Iran.
1st - For commercial purposes there is Galileo, GLONASS and GPS and no need of BeiDou or Compass experimental design!
2nd- In case of military usage you run into the same issues with BeiDou than you may run with GLONASS. They may shut it down for our area anyway.
3rd- and more importantly, you can never trust what is feed through Chinese authorities. There is a save face culture and culture of vague governing it all. Hiding the truth is a virtue. I personally experienced it both in Huawei and working on their C802.
4th- It is expensive for commercial use. Chips already have all GNSS receivers except BeiDou and cheaper to use. Why opting for new one. Integration of network with it is not a big deal. It is a totally different layer and you can have any network layer adopted with current systems.

I just don't see why Iran needs to co-operate with Chinese on BeiDou! There is no merit in it. Start your own. The Knowledge is out there and if you want to invest 50 to 100 million dollars. You can use the same building your own local version of it! Chinese are not a reliable partners in any R & D!

From technology standpoint BeiDou, GPS and Galileo are all the same system and the frequency that they occupy is nearly the same. Only GLONASS presents a unique FDMA on top of CDMA method which is a characteristic of Russian ingenuity for 1974 design. This is not a surprise, well Chinese are copying what they learnt from Galileo and GPS on their home grown design! Iran would not learn anything new on this approach and on military basis I prefer to be independent and not in the hands of Chinese so I agree with SINAN build your own national grid!

You obviously live in a different planet. Let me point out some facts for you.
1. China has long time ago given up Galileo because the only thing European want from China is her investment of money, nothing else. In other words, there is nothing China can get from this project. That's why China made up its mind to develop her own Beidou GNSS system.
2. The only two choices that is available to Iran now are Glonass and Beidou. Galileo is not ready yet. GPS is American's. And both are from western source. Between Glonass and Beidou, I think, in the long run, Chinese one has more potential than the Russian's.
3. For the copy and paste accusation of yours, it's very funny(especially when it's come out from an Iranian). The truth is, everyone is doing copy and paste in some way. Give you an example, every computer you now use is IBM PC compatible. And obviously it's made first by IBM. But who gives a shit? Ever since it was born, people started to reverse engineer it and made their IBM PC clone, as long as it's legal. And, should I point it out that Iran is also very famous for its copy and paste of foreign technology? I don't want to elaborate it too much here because I'm sure you know better than I do.

I don't know whether this is obvious to you or not. But the fact is, If all you can do is copy and paste, you can not succeed. China is one of the countries that have been continuously making heavy investment on R&D on all fronts. That's the only reason why Iran are buying BDS technology and nuclear power plant among other things from China. And not just Iran, even the Great Britain is buying nuclear power plant from China.

Talking about Huawei. It's an truly epic and miracle. Start from a small company and in less than two decades, now it's among world's top 500 giants. Its products being accepted around the world. What do you think the reason of Huawei's success is? Do you really think copy and paste can make a world's top 500 giant?

Let me answer your points in reverse order, but before all I like to say no one says go and develop it now. What I am saying is that there is no point working with Chinese and paying them hundreds of millions for BeiDou when it is a copy and paste of GPS and Galileo (I can tell you exactly what they copied from where!) That is Chinese typical attitude. In Optical networks they copied Ciena technology and stole their IP, in the rest of the technologies that are crucial and strategic they do the same and then flood the market with cheap designs and products! This all done with the backing of state and military! ZTE, Huawei all are the same. By the way same Huawei and ZTE destroyed Iranian digital switch technology. It is treason working with them. I was told by my Chinese manager to copy the Synchronization from another vendor with the blue prints! Of course I didn't comply! So what I am saying is form experience! I am neither a diplomat nor a PDF and this is my experience. Now back to the topic, IMU/INS integration and aggregate systems is my job:

4- Chip developments not an issue if the system belongs to someone else. You use available chips or IP's and they are all over the place for the existing ones.
3- I don't agree on STEM part. We have well known figures in Geomatics for this purpose besides as said the technology for such systems are well known. Best thing is to spend million dollar and have the Geomatics brains that one even published an encyclopedia define a road map before jumping in the wagon with Chinese!
2- For Civilian purposes there is no issue using any of the systems available now. A combination of GLONASS and GPS ensures good reception on all inclinations on the globe. You can add BeiDou but it doesn't add anything new unless Chinese use the allocated frequency sooner than Galileo.
1- Yes, Specially the Russian one due to its method of GNSS. Ground stations calculate satellite positions, synchronize frames, correct for ionospheric error and gravitational error if it is an option for the station and upload information to the satellite. All of them need such stations. Now the question is, which one is cheaper and more reliable.

Regarding the clock:
Galileo has the highest precision clock on board, "Hydrogen maser" and (GPS, BeiDou) use rubidium clocks while GPS and Glonass use Cesium clock. As far as I know, usage of Atomic clock can not be restricted or blocked. I don't think that would be an issue.

Regarding the SLV:
Once again not that go and do it now, the point is no need for it use the existing ones. If crucial and strategic then Chinese are no different to Russians and everyone else on this matter. But on SLV you can have India or Russia send it to space.

Regarding the civilian use:
Exactly for civilian use there is no limitation for Iran. Regarding the R & D both Europeans and US will cooperate so will Canada, if there is a will on doing it. Where do you think all our Geomatics minds have studied or worked? This is not the reason for cooperation with China on this regard. For civilian purposes no one restricts Iran.

At the end, working with Chinese and Russians on this regard is not necessary after the deal if leader knows how to behave and dosn't bite once in a while) The technology is mature and old. The SDR (software defined Radio), Geomatics, RTL and electronics and the RF design for GPS frequencies (~1xxx MHz and max 20 MHz BW ) all is in hand and it is an opportunity to define the project and have Iranian young engineers learnand spend the 200 million euros or dollars that you want to give to Chinese! if necessary! (keyword is if necessary)

If you get free ride from Chinese go for it. If they offer cooperation at reasonable price then it is good why not. But Chinese never offer anything free and usually take more than they offer. That has been their attitude everywhere and specially when dealing with Iran on all projects!

The reason Chinese went for BeiDou is not that it is better! No it is cut and paste technology and inferior in accuracy to US recent 20MHz bandwidth. It is because then have the money and they can and they need to be independent in this technology and the precision they get is sufficient for their purpose! If Iran wants to be independent then BeiDou doesn't offer that other than that use the existing ones avoid paying the Chinese R & D!

You have such a big mouth but at the same time you cannot get this simple news correct. Iran import BDS not to build her own positioning system but to get Beidou's positioning and navigation service, which with the help of ground station can be as accurate as within 3 centimeters. And it's mostly for civilian use, Get it?
 
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You obviously live in a different planet. Let me point out some facts for you.
1. China has long time ago given up Galileo because the only thing European want from China is her investment of money, nothing else. In other words, there is nothing China can get from this project. That's why China made up its mind to develop her own Beidou GNSS system.
2. The only two choices that is available to Iran now are Glonass and Beidou. Galileo is not ready yet. GPS is American's. And both are from western source. Between Glonass and Beidou, I think, in the long run, Chinese one has more potential than the Russian's.
3. For the copy and paste accusation of yours, it's very funny(especially when it's come out from an Iranian). The truth is, everyone is doing copy and paste in some way. Give you an example, every computer you now use is IBM PC compatible. And obviously it's made first by IBM. But who gives a shit? Ever since it was born, people started to reverse engineer it and made their IBM PC clone, as long as it's legal. And, should I point it out that Iran is also very famous for its copy and paste of foreign technology? I don't want to elaborate it too much here because I'm sure you know better than I do.

I don't know whether this is obvious to you or not. But the fact is, If all you can do is copy and paste, you can not succeed. China is one of the countries that have been continuously making heavy investment on R&D on all fronts. That's the only reason why Iran are buying BDS technology and nuclear power plant among other things from China. And not just Iran, even the Great Britain is buying nuclear power plant from China.

Talking about Huawei. It's an truly epic and miracle. Start from a small company and in less than two decades, now it's among world's top 500 giants. Its products being accepted around the world. What do you think the reason of Huawei's success is? Do you really think copy and paste can make a world's top 500 giant?
I don't know about you or what you call it in Chinese but the planet is called earth! Google it you would know!
On 1: Of course, European know what you are up to. Regarding GNSS solutions Galileo is superior in many and similar in some. The technology has phases butthe planned ones are so.
On 2: Both Glonass and BeiDou would be available in commercial phase to all. It is about receiver and ground station sales. Glonass for the sam ereason is being very popular as countries that do not have the system would like to pair GPS, Glonass and it could be GPS, BeiDou ... in future if the system goes up as planned and if ITU allows the bandwidth which I suppose they would. The point of the discussion was we do not need to pay Chinese hefty money for it. In competition with GLONASS they have to allow usage. Beside GLONASS is in phases, GLONASS -K2 is being deployed bettween 2015-2024 and as it is a mature technology and its uniques FDMA over CDMA properties are good for ionespheric corrections and due to advances in processors teh burden of extra computational and receiver complexity is the least to worry and GLONASS has taken a major boost in the market. BeiDou on the other hand has the support of a big nation and that is its only advantage otherwise technology and algorithmic wise there is no difference. Beside the combination of GLONASS and GPS is what most countries are interested due to the fact that GLONASS sattelites are at 65 degrees inclination and the coverage completes the GPS coverage.
On 3: Yes Iranians also copy and paste and they do a lot! Hopefully not from the Chinese technology and that was the point of the discussion. One has to copy from the masters if he wants to copy! Not form the copier! although this copy and paste is inside Iran and outside the scholars are famous for their ingenuity as the Chinese are famous for their hard work and obedience.

On Huawei: I worked there for 2 years and know all about the culture and its history and how much it makes and what is their bread and butter in communication ... For now lets say the 5G of Samsung is scaring the hell out of them but with the money they have they will overcome that but regarding how it grew, It is a company as you said started by an ex military and with government help on several levels manage to beat competition. It along with ZTE (specially ZTE with its famous backdoor espionage code ) are famous for stealing other vendors IP. Nortel lost to Huawei as their servers were attacked and the IP stolen but it is hard to prove, CSIS knows as far as ex Nortel employees say but there is far more politics involved. Lets say my example that I saw all the details of Ciena optical 100G transceiver design and was told to copy it without any concern about the patent and the IP by my Chinese manager.

Anyway I do not have any respect for Huawei and ZTE and if it is me in Canadian politics I would ban these companies from having business in Canada and close their R & D centers in Ottawa and sales center in Toronto! Sooner or later because of its growth they would have to have a campaign to ban Huawei product from western market, I hope!

I have no respect for companies that steal their technology or had stolen it at beginning.
 
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You obviously live in a different planet. Let me point out some facts for you.
1. China has long time ago given up Galileo because the only thing European want from China is her investment of money, nothing else. In other words, there is nothing China can get from this project. That's why China made up its mind to develop her own Beidou GNSS system.
2. The only two choices that is available to Iran now are Glonass and Beidou. Galileo is not ready yet. GPS is American's. And both are from western source. Between Glonass and Beidou, I think, in the long run, Chinese one has more potential than the Russian's.
3. For the copy and paste accusation of yours, it's very funny(especially when it's come out from an Iranian). The truth is, everyone is doing copy and paste in some way. Give you an example, every computer you now use is IBM PC compatible. And obviously it's made first by IBM. But who gives a shit? Ever since it was born, people started to reverse engineer it and made their IBM PC clone, as long as it's legal. And, should I point it out that Iran is also very famous for its copy and paste of foreign technology? I don't want to elaborate it too much here because I'm sure you know better than I do.

I don't know whether this is obvious to you or not. But the fact is, If all you can do is copy and paste, you can not succeed. China is one of the countries that have been continuously making heavy investment on R&D on all fronts. That's the only reason why Iran are buying BDS technology and nuclear power plant among other things from China. And not just Iran, even the Great Britain is buying nuclear power plant from China.

Talking about Huawei. It's an truly epic and miracle. Start from a small company and in less than two decades, now it's among world's top 500 giants. Its products being accepted around the world. What do you think the reason of Huawei's success is? Do you really think copy and paste can make a world's top 500 giant?



You have such a big mouth but at the same time you cannot get this simple news correct. Iran import BDS not to build her own positioning system but to get Beidou's positioning and navigation service, which with the help of ground station can be as accurate as within 3 centimeters. And it's mostly for civilian use, Get it?

LOL, those Iranian wahabis have been using Chinese tech for decades. Ungrateful bastards they are. They should just go build their own wooden aircraft carrier and fight the US lol
 
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