Deal to buy 36 Rafale jets runs into trouble; India & France struggle to agree on sales terms: Sourc

[C130]

How does a 200 Million USD price tag of Rafale compare to that of F-35?

Don't get me wrong Super Hornets are wonderful and all but it is about getting access to the latest tech also. Otherwise Russian fighters offer quite a lot of bang for the buck

F-35 is $100 million by 2019 will be $89 million

F-18 ASH has the latest tech

Rafale just has a superior EW suite in Spectre
but the ASH suppose to have some kinda spherical missile/laser warning system.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

@MastanKhan

Sir you have been speculating a LOT about Indians making the French angry
with this long drawn negotiations in various other threads

I would like to put it in context

The fact is that IAF has NO sense of urgency left because of PAF slowdown

At one time there was a threat of J 10 and More F 16 block 52

But it is not happening

SImilarly JF 17 are just some 60 odd and their specifications are not
a concern to IAF

SImilarly PLAAF has no plane which is superior to SU 30 MKI
and we are even upgrading the SU 30 MKI

Hence India has become complacent

If you recall in 1982 when you got the F 16 we immediately got the Mirage 2000

Since the Next big Thing in Asia is going to be PAK FA ; we have really no worries
even about J 20

 

[I M Sikander]

Dassault should be penalized now instead of having further talks with them

In what capacity. Infact french should end this so called not yet signed agreement for rafale sale.

8 years have been wasted and millions of company finances have been ruined by indian in this deal, which is still not done.

 

[Spectre]

F-35 is $100 million bu 2019 will be $89 million

F-18 ASH has the latest tech

Rafale just has a superior EW suite in Spectre
but the ASH suppose to have some kinda spherical missile/laser warning system.

That is absolutely terrible. Forgive me, I don't usually keep with the latest in various fighter jets but if what you have said is true then French are absolutely fleecing us.

If Super Hornets have such capability then I am sure F-35 is no minnow either and being a 5th gen fighter would also have a lot of scope left for future upgrades and so on.

Two F-35s for a price of Rafale should be a no brainer but then what do I know.

The way things are going we are not gonna get Rafales before 2019 and I think US might be able to supply us the F-35 by that time frame if there are no restrictions slapped on export to India.

By that time our fiscal position would also improve

 

[I M Sikander]

get couple of rafale than cancel whole deal, copy it just like China did with Su-27/30

Vow amazing pearls of wisdom my dear.

 

[[Bregs]]

That is absolutely terrible. Forgive me, I don't usually keep with the latest in various fighter jets but if what you have said is true then French are absolutely fleecing us.

If Super Hornets have such capability then I am sure F-35 is no minnow either and being a 5th gen fighter would also have a lot of scope left for future upgrades and so on.

Two F-35s for a price of Rafale should be a no brainer but then what do I know.

The way things are going we are not gonna get Rafales before 2019 and I think US might be able to supply us the F-35 by that time frame if there are no restrictions slapped on export to India.

By that time our fiscal position would also improve

Rafale deal has been cut not without any reason there are back channel talks with couple of countries but lets see first where this rafale deal goes in next few weeks because a political push at higher level can still save this deal

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

I agree with @C130 , f-35 is 100-115 million atm,this rafale drama is going on too long and too costly at 120 million.With Pak-fa stalling and AMCA in coma,perhaps its time to give this a chance.It will automatically solve our future carrier aircraft problem as well.

 

[airmarshal]

It seems this deal is not happening.

Indians not only cant make weapons. They cant even negotiate for new weapons.

 

[MastanKhan]

How does a 200 Million USD price tag of Rafale compare to that of F-35?

Don't get me wrong Super Hornets are wonderful and all but it is about getting access to the latest tech also. Otherwise Russian fighters offer quite a lot of bang for the buck

Hi,

I don't know if people are missing something or what---the 200 mil for a Rafael is all inclusive----the F 35 would be around 300 mil +++plus the concern that in a merge---so not a good deal------the F 18 would be around 170 mil---you are not buying the plane alone----now are you----you need to buy the bullets---you need someone to train you---support ad all that kind of stuff.

There is nothing new, different and good that is less than 160---170 mil per plane total package----except for the SU 30---because you already have its infra structure and the weapons as well---you just have to buy the planes----rest is already there.

SU 30 is the cheapest way to go forward.

 

[MastanKhan]

I agree with @C130 , f-35 is 100-115 million atm,this rafale drama is going on too long and too costly at 120 million.With Pak-fa stalling and AMCA in coma,perhaps its time to give this a chance.It will automatically solve our future carrier aircraft problem as well.

Hi,

What are you talking about----read my above post----.

 

[Immanuel]

Hi,

I don't know if people are missing something or what---the 200 mil for a Rafael is all inclusive----the F 35 would be around 300 mil +++plus the concern that in a merge---so not a good deal------the F 18 would be around 170 mil---you are not buying the plane alone----now are you----you need to buy the bullets---you need someone to train you---support ad all that kind of stuff.

There is nothing new, different and good that is less than 160---170 mil per plane total package----except for the SU 30---because you already have its infra structure and the weapons as well---you just have to buy the planes----rest is already there.

SU 30 is the cheapest way to go forward.

If Rafale is 200 million is all inclusive, then the Super hornet all inclusive would be max 120-130 million. F-35 would be roughly the same as the Rafale or even cheaper. F-18 ASH unit cost would be around 70 million with all the new features. Pure block 2 super hornet would sell for 60 million. 60-80 additional super MKI will need to be ordered regardless

 

[knight11]

If Rafale is 200 million is all inclusive, then the Super hornet all inclusive would be max 120-130 million. F-35 would be roughly the same as the Rafale or even cheaper. F-18 ASH unit cost would be around 70 million with all the new features. Pure block 2 super hornet would sell for 60 million. 60-80 additional super MKI will need to be ordered regardless

Why taking tension for India period. Its their money whereever Indian wants to spend what makes you so uncomfortable and if you know better bargaining then why don't Pakistan spend some bucks for this US birds rather buying chinese toys.

 

[Viper0011.]

why EF if getting TOT to speed up owr AMCA programme then why not buy yamrican F/A-18 E/F advanced super hornets as we have engine comminality + no matter how good frenchies radar or spectra suite are they cant beat the AESA based radar/EWsuite & other elertoniks and wepons pakage of F/A-18 E/F and is yamricans want they can deliver us 3 fullsquads of them in a single year

Its time India listened to the US and evaluated the -18 or the -16IN. Rafale doesn't give you more bang for the buck, the American jets are. Plus, you'll be supported by ever advancing technology to keep India ahead of the curve every few years. The French would smile at you and would want "hard cash" for every single additional upgrade they bring to the table in the future.....

Negotiate with the EF consortium. Get it up and moving. Order the complete 126, with 36 delivered and the rest in India. Dassault does not agree, get somebody else. But, this nonsense of only Rafale needs to be put to an end.

LCA, Typhoon, Su-30 MKI + 3 sqaudrons of PakFa by 2020. And the EF chaps have offered lead development of a naval variant. Lets get on with it.

I'd suggest listening to the US.....and getting manufacturing rights on -18 or -16IN. You can NEVER go wrong with those two or even one of those two!!

Rafale deal has been cut not without any reason there are back channel talks with couple of countries but lets see first where this rafale deal goes in next few weeks because a political push at higher level can still save this deal

These feel happy and make me smile statements don't cover the real deal. The French DO NOT want to:

1) Reduce cost per unit because India thinks so
2) Allow customization to their avionics and other sensitive tech because India wants to.
3) Support India's internal Offset laws and spend a huge chunk of money internally in India.....

Am I thinking this is too much and cray or is it REALLY crazy? I think the later is true. The French don't do deals where they won't make a significant margin. Here, they won't make any decent margin. So consider this cancelled IMO.

The US has offered you the sweetest deals, -18 ASH, -16IN, pick one, with the latest tech, Indian assembly and to some degree component manufacturing. What else could one need? And top of the line equipment!!!

 

[knight11]

Its time India listened to the US and evaluated the -18 or the -16IN. Rafale doesn't give you more bang for the buck, the American jets are. Plus, you'll be supported by ever advancing technology to keep India ahead of the curve every few years. The French would smile at you and would want "hard cash" for every single additional upgrade they bring to the table in the future.....



I'd suggest listening to the US.....and getting manufacturing rights on -18 or -16IN. You can NEVER go wrong with those two or even one of those two!!



These feel happy and make me smile statements don't cover the real deal. The French DO NOT want to:

1) Reduce cost per unit because India thinks so
2) Allow customization to their avionics and other sensitive tech because India wants to.
3) Support India's internal Offset laws and spend a huge chunk of money internally in India.....

Am I thinking this is too much and cray or is it REALLY crazy? I think the later is true. The French don't do deals where they won't make a significant margin. Here, they won't make any decent margin. So consider this cancelled IMO.

The US has offered you the sweetest deals, -18 ASH, -16IN, pick one, with the latest tech, Indian assembly and to some degree component manufacturing. What else could one need? And top of the line equipment!!!

BABA MAAF KARO AAGE KOI AUR DEKHO

SORRY IF YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND HINDI

SORRY WE DON'T HAVE THE REQUIREMENT FOR YOU F-18 OR F-16 NOW. PLEASE LEAVE YOUR CARD AND CONTACT NO. WHENEVER THERE IS ANY REQUIREMENT WE WILL CALL YOU FIRST.

 

[Indian Patriot]

The fact is that IAF has NO sense of urgency left because of PAF slowdown

IAF has a definite lack of urgency because of fleet reduction. IAF needs 40+ squadrons minimum and the current number is far less.

Nowhere is it mentioned that only PAF will attack India, there is china at the eastern border which has a qualitative and quantitatively superior air force.

SImilarly PLAAF has no plane which is superior to SU 30 MKI
and we are even upgrading the SU 30 MKI

The chinese have the equivalent of the sukhoi 30 and they have TWO stealth aircraft in the making, and unlike India the chinese made it on their own and have full technology of that thing. Not to mention the vast numbers of PLAAF aircraft.

Its a good thing people like you are not in the defence procurement policy. People like you at the helm will mean India will always be equipped with mediocre sub-standard system.

Just for the sake of an internet argument do not throw common sense out of the window.