Deal acceptable in Afghanistan, not in Pakistan: US

[Awesome]

S-2

C'mon theres more to it than Biden just making futile suggestion. We've been hearing about how America is dying to make a deal with the Taliban for quite some time now. Its not a question about factions for America. They will approach Mullah Omar. Once he gives his nod, at least 90% of them will fall in line.

Disarmament does not exist in Afghanistan. Whom all are you going to disarm? Every other teenager has a few guns at least. Forget disarmament, if the US can get Mullah Omar to agree to co-exist with all the factions of Afghanistan I bet they'd even lift off the demand for Bin Laden.

Maybe they would demand some sort of condemnation of Bin Laden by Mullah Omar and be done with it.

 

[S-2]

"Afghanistan is the source of this problem, not Swat."

Control the taliban properly in 1996 and NONE OF THIS goes down. None.

"We've been hearing about how America is dying to make a deal with the Taliban for quite some time now."

Taliban want no deal so don't worry about it. They want us GONE. Then they'll talk.

Sure.

There's no leverage here. Taliban overwhelmingly starts to win, the ground crumbles around America. NATO/ISAF reverse things, taliban come to the table with their tail between their legs.

Neither exist so it's not worth worrying about. There will be a lot of fighting this spring, summer, and fall. Count on it.

 

[RedBaron]

Hmm...I am not entirely sure the Taliban is really as unified as they and others claim to be. I've come to realize that Gates may have a point to make here...

Over time, divisions happen in any organization and Taliban is no exception. Case in point: Khmer Rouge was as reviled as the Taliban, if not more. They were responsible for the deaths of 1.5 million people, far more than Taliban casualties. But once they were overthrown in 1978, the Vietnamese installed a puppet gov't that consisted primarily of Khmer Rouge defectors. Current PM Hun Sen is a former Khmer Rouge official!
A more recent example are the Iraqi Sunni Awakening Council, former sworn enemies, now allies.

Considering that Karzai has squandered all goodwill, US is probably actively searching for a "Hun Sen" among the Taliban right now. Mullah Omar is the Pol Pot, so he's not the man, but there may be some other folks among the Taliban ready to renounce their radicalism in exchange for power. Power after all has the ability to "corrupt".

 

[Awesome]

"Afghanistan is the source of this problem, not Swat."

Control the taliban properly in 1996 and NONE OF THIS goes down. None.

Not really, we had been attacked by the Afghan air force, fired upon by SCUDs. The Taliban on the other hand were opening up their territory to us. Its pretty much safe to say the non-Taliban warlords would've been just as bad as well.

"We've been hearing about how America is dying to make a deal with the Taliban for quite some time now."

Taliban want no deal so don't worry about it. They want us GONE. Then they'll talk.

Something Americans are more and more contemplating.

Neither exist so it's not worth worrying about. There will be a lot of fighting this spring, summer, and fall. Count on it.

Who are you going to fight with? Taliban is a mentality. They don't call themselves students for nothing.

If you really want to settle things in Afghanistan you SHOULD leave. Your presence irks everybody. You're not seen as saviors of the Afghan people but are seen as raping, pillaging, marauding foreign forces. That may not be true, but thats how you will go down in history and folk tales within the Pashtun culture. Let's put it this way, that the Americans are villainized just because they are Americans.

Your best bet is to demand that Pashtuns and the Tajiks, the Hazaras and Uzbeks learn to coexist and stop fighting and then you'll leave. Your departure is a big incentive, a big carrot you can dangle in front of them since they want you out so bad. Its no easy jobs, they all hate each other, not just the Pashtuns.

 

[S-2]

"The Taliban on the other hand were opening up their territory to us."

Asim, you misunderstood what I meant by "control". They were your minions. I'd have hoped that you'd have been able to lead, mentor, and mollify their behavior to adequate levels while encouraging them to divest from the arab radicals in their midst.

Would have saved us all a lot of trouble, likely.

"Something Americans are more and more contemplating."

It's not even a serious consideration. Most likely we ante up-not down. Pakistan falls if Afghanistan becomes talibanized. Maybe you noticed that Bahadur, Nazir, and Mehsud reached accord?

After SWAT, who do you think was shaping the discussion?

"You're not seen as saviors of the Afghan people but are seen as raping, pillaging, marauding foreign forces."

You must be numb to believe that the Afghanis can't recognize the difference between ISAF/NATO and the various civil war factions and the Soviets. There's no comparison and it's sad that you'd happily promote such an untrue message.

Your desires are known, Asim. You are personally no friend of the Afghan people to oppose the U.N. mission. They've never held such a chance to emerge as a viable state. The world's focus is upon them finally.

In your perverse quest for "strategic depth" you've nothing to offer such as improving the lot of the Afghan people one bit. All you eagerly seek is the U.N.'s departure and a return to Pakistani domination of Afghanistan through your pashtu minions.

That sentiment is very much alive now within your government. It will likely destroy your nation in the end.