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Deadline pressure on IAF to order more C-17s

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In a ceremony at Boeing’s Long Beach factory in California, enlivened by an anti-Pakistan tirade by local Congressman Dana Rohrabacher, the first of 10 C-17 Globemaster III airlifters ordered by the Indian Air Force (IAF) moved a step closer towards completion.

Indian diplomats and air force officers, Boeing officials and local politicians participated in the so-called “major join” ceremony, driving in ceremonial rivets to conjoin the C-17’s wings and body. India’s first C-17 has actually begun to look like an aircraft.


“Today, we are practically riveting together the relationship between the United States and India,” proclaimed N Parthasarathi, India’s consul general in San Francisco, who had been invited to the ceremony.

Even more theatrical was local Congressman, Representative Dana Rohrabacher, an anti-Pakistan hawk, who thundered that the C-17 was a tool that would help “most important ally” India “defeat the forces of evil”, specifically “radical Islam and a China that would seem to be an adversary rather than a friend.”

Earlier this year, Rohrabacher had sponsored a bill in the US Congress calling for the right to self-determination in Pakistan’s restive province of Balochistan.

For Rohrabacher, the big issue here is local employment, not Pakistan. The C-17 production line, which creates some 5,000 jobs at Long Beach (and another 17,000 elsewhere in the US), will shut down by end-2014 after building India’s 10 C-17s and the US Air Force’s last seven aircraft. This has forced a deadline on the IAF, which plans to order at least six more C-17s, but only after evaluating its operational performance when it joins the IAF fleet next June. A top Boeing executive today told Business Standard unless additional international orders came in, Sept ember 2013 would be the cut-off date for the IAF to order additional aircraft. After that date, the process of shutting down the production line would begin.

“As of now, India would need to take a decision on additional C-17s by the third quarter of next year. There are other countries that are expressing interest in the C-17. If they place an order, India’s deadline would extend,” says Mark Kronenberg, Boeing’s international business development chief.

The IAF’s Rs 22,800 crore ($4.12 billion) purchase of 10 C-17s will make it the largest operator of C-17s outside the US. The aircraft will allow the army to swiftly reinforce threatened sectors along the remote, Himalayan, northern border. It can fly 74 tonnes of stores over 4,500 kilometres, landing on a one-kilometre stretch of hard, unpaved mud. The C-17 can also deliver paratroopers on to an objective. Since its full load of 134 fully equipped paratroopers weighs less than 10 tonnes, the aircraft’s range increases to over 10,000 kilometres. A company of paratroopers can be delivered without refuelling as far as London, or the Australian city of Darwin.

The C-17 will replace the obsolescent Russian IL-76 airlifter, which has served the IAF since the early 1980s but is now unreliable. The IAF is impressed with the C-17’s abilities, especially after June 20, 2010. During trials in Ladakh, in the oxygen-thin air of that hot summer day, the IL-76 was unable to land even without a payload. The C-17, to the IAF’s delight, landed and took off with 30 tonnes on board.

The C-17 was procured through the US government’s Foreign Military Sales (FMS) programme, with New Delhi and Washington signing the contract in June 2011. Under this, Boeing will deliver the first five C-17s next year, with another five following in 2014. The IAF is raising a new unit —81 Squadron, based in Hindan, outside Delhi — for the C-17, a decision that some criticise as lacking a sense of history.

“There is already an illustrious former squadron —19 Squadron — that was number-plated (retired) 20 years ago. Why don’t they re-raise 19 Squadron, so that its history is passed on and kept alive? In October 1962, on the eve of the China war, 19 Squadron airlifted light tanks to Ladakh, which fought gallantly to defend Chushul.

In the 1980s, 19 squadron flew over 20,000 sorties to support the Indian army in Sri Lanka,” points out IAF historian, Pushpindar Singh. The IAF is readying to receive the C-17 with 10 flight crews, each consisting of two pilots and a loadmaster, being trained at an US Air Force base in Altus, Oklahoma.

A novelty in India’s C-17 purchase is a “performance-based logistics” contract that the IAF has signed with Boeing.

This binds Boeing to ensure that some 85 per cent of the C-17 fleet is always available and ready for operations. Boeing will position spares and maintenance personnel for this, drawing not just on depots in the US, but on a “virtual fleet” that includes the six other forces that operate the C-17.

Deadline pressure on IAF to order more C-17s | idrw.org
 
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I love this bird & impressed with its performance.
we must place the followon order.


C-17 GLOBEMASTER III > COUNTER MEASURES SPIRIT OF BERLIN

The C-17 is equipped with Tracor AN/ALE-47 countermeasure flare dispensers and the Lockheed Martin/ Alliant Techsystems AN/AAR-47 missile warning system.

AN/AAR-47 is a passive missile warning system which detects missiles by detecting the heat emitted in the exhaust during the missile launch and boost phase. The system is composed of a suite of thermal sensors with four photomultipliers, a signal processing unit and a cockpit mounted control indicator. The suite of surface mounted thermal sensors around the aircraft provide 360 degree coverage.
Frequency selection and signal processing techniques are used to minimise the false alarm rate. The system provides a warning to the crew via the cockpit indicator unit of the presence and direction of the missile threat. A signal is automatically sent to the ALE-47 countermeasures dispenser.

AN/ALE-47 is capable of carrying a mix of expendable countermeasures including expendable jammers. The system interfaces to the C-17 aircraft's sensors. The aircrew can select the mode of operation of the dispenser for fully automatic, semi-automatic or manual operation.


The cockpit control unit can be used to input mission data together with the numbers and types of expendable countermeasures systems loaded into the ALE-47. The cockpit controller updates and displays the status of the dispenser and the numbers and types of countermeasures remaining. The ALE-47 is capable of dispensing the new generation active expendable decoys POET and GEN-X in addition to the conventional chaff and flare decoys which are compatible with the previous generation ALE-40 and ALE-39 dispensers.


In fully automatic mode the dispenser receives the threat data from the aircraft's sensor system, selects the appropriate response in the choice of expendable, the dispersal sequence and pattern, and dispenses the selected expendable decoy. The ALE-47 automatically downloads data to programme active expendable decoys before the launch sequence.
In semi-automatic mode the launcher analyses the threat data input, selects the best response and provides a signal to the aircrew that the system is ready. In a fully manual mode the crew are able to select one of six pre-programmed responses in which the quantities, sequences and types of expendables produce the required decoy pattern.


http://www.globemaster.de/c-17/flare.html
 
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While we all know that Dana's words are nothing more than mere rhetoric said with the underlying hopes of influencing a MOD decision for more C-17's, it would be nice to see these gargatuans in IAF colors.
 
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actually,India should press for atleast 10 more aircrafts,as multirole cargo aircraft will be probably delayed by 2-3 years,and India needs to keep its power projection of its cargo fleet intact..
 
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Please, IAF has till Q3 2013 to decide??!! Good sales technique by Boeing but are you really telling me that any "winding-down" process implemented after this deadline is irreversible? If Boeing got a 10 unit order from IAF in Q1 2014 are you telling me they would decline and continue closing down??!! NOT ON YOUR LIFE! The ball is in the IAF's court and they have the power. Even still I woudl expect an follow on order by IAF not too long after first deliveries are made.
 
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its usaual for india to have follow on order once the first batch has been inducted and tried out . so some time next year we can see the order numbers going up.
 
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We should build dozens of airstrips near borders which can land C17s and C130Js that greatly help in implementing CSD .
 
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I dont want this to be India-Pakistan shouting match. But why would Pakistan not consider these very capable planes? Costs and Maintenance? Or just different needs?
 
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I dont want this to be India-Pakistan shouting match. But why would Pakistan not consider these very capable planes? Costs and Maintenance? Or just different needs?

All your points are valid and worthy of consideration.
In theory Pakistan could certainly consider these aircraft, but practically it may not be viable:
1. These are aircraft with very long legs (range and endurance), considering the small area of Pakistan that would simply be over-kill.
2. They are expensive to acquire and maintain, however have a favorable cost-benefit ratio spread over life-cycle costs.
3. They have a "political package" attache. Given the anamalous US-Pak relationship at present what are the chances of such a deal coming through.
4. Lastly and most importantly; PAF already posesses the C-130 Hercules (albeit older series). But they are very operational; and in combination with the Indonesian/Spanish built CASA transports more than adequate to meet PAF requirements.

In conclusion, PAF air-lift capabilities seem to be already taken care of. Unless it needs to renew/replace older aircraft. Then it would be best to look at C-130s or similar aircraft. I'd say 'different needs' more than anything else.
 
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Please, IAF has till Q3 2013 to decide??!! Good sales technique by Boeing but are you really telling me that any "winding-down" process implemented after this deadline is irreversible? If Boeing got a 10 unit order from IAF in Q1 2014 are you telling me they would decline and continue closing down??!! NOT ON YOUR LIFE! The ball is in the IAF's court and they have the power. Even still I woudl expect an follow on order by IAF not too long after first deliveries are made.

Seems to be just a 'marketing ploy' to ratchet up the pressure on the decision makers in MoD. Q3 2013 is some way off, a follow-on order will com through. Likely to be the same quantity. Even 20 Globemasters will make a huge difference to the IAF's air-lift capacity. Coupled with the C-130j Hercules of course.
And we need to remember that the Il-76s and An-32(upg) will soldier on for more time, though the Il-76s will head for the bone-yards first.

Then there is the C-295/ C-27 decision still in the works. While those (all or some) may make it to the IAF/BSF; they are going tob contributors to building up capacity.
 
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Please, IAF has till Q3 2013 to decide??!! Good sales technique by Boeing but are you really telling me that any "winding-down" process implemented after this deadline is irreversible? If Boeing got a 10 unit order from IAF in Q1 2014 are you telling me they would decline and continue closing down??!! NOT ON YOUR LIFE! The ball is in the IAF's court and they have the power. Even still I woudl expect an follow on order by IAF not too long after first deliveries are made.

Quite often that is the case. They will start laying off people as soon as production ends. specialized equipment used in manufacturing is either sold off or scrapped. jigs and forms are scrapped etc. The F-22 is one of the rare exceptions to this, I believe all the equipment used manufacture the F-22 was preserved.
 
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India has yet to complete any single foreign buying order...From MMRCA to many others..Its only talk no action..
 
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India has yet to complete any single foreign buying order...From MMRCA to many others..Its only talk no action..

I seem to be doing this to a lot of your posts:

Homer-faceplam-63457838843.jpeg




Do you ever bother to research anything or are you happy to continue making ignorant comments?


I guess these are just my imgagination?

IAF+C-130J+Super+Hercules.jpg


600d1342518650-first-two-p8-i-aircrafts-indian-navy-boeing-tarmac-first-two-p8-i-aircrafts-indian-navy-boeing-tarmac.jpg



Do you enjoy being wrong or what? Do you honestly not know about these? And when you say India is yet to complete a single foreign buy what time period are you using? Since forever??!!



FYI- 10 C-17s ARE on order and WILL be delivered in 2013 (next year)!!
 
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+ and only the other day Mr Safriz on the "suggestion and discussion" section requested more technical and defence threads! What's the point? He is clearly learning NOTHING! I can't count the number of threads on Indian orders for foreign equipment or the nearly weekly reports on such and yet he clearly has missed or ignored ALL of them!!

For reference:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/sugges...hortage-defense-tech-discussions-threads.html



+ I like how so many like to bash India over the MMRCA, I am looking forward to the day (this FY) when it is signed and these aholes STFU!!
 
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