Dassault Woos India Sensing MMRCA Deal Conclusion

[sancho]

I simply don't see how Qatar could get Rafales BEFORE India if India signs BEFORE Qatar. The RFI for the MMRCA said first deliveries of the full Indian-spec birds within 36 months, this is non-negotiable and Dassualt were well aware of this going into the MMRCA competition.

Who said that India signs before Qatar and even if, the 18 x produced by France must be according to IAFs requirements, so must have customisations that the French Rafales don't have, which logicaly needs longer. On the other side, Dassault can simply produce the same Rafale that they build for French forces for Qatar, which makes it easier. The 36 month limit won't be the issue, but Qatar might get them even earlier!

 

[Abingdonboy]

Who said that India signs before Qatar and even if, the 18 x produced by France must be according to IAFs requirements, so must have customisations that the French Rafales don't have, which logicaly needs longer. On the other side, Dassault can simply produce the same Rafale that they build for French forces for Qatar, which makes it easier. The 36 month limit won't be the issue, but Qatar might get them even earlier!

Frankly I don't see the Qataris signing anytime soon whereas it appears pretty likely the Rafale deal with India will be signed this calendar/fiscal year. As such we can say that the first Indian Rafales will be delivered in 2016/early 2017. For Qatar to get their birds before India they would have to sign within the next 18 months which doesn't look at all likely.

 

[sancho]

Frankly I don't see the Qataris signing anytime soon whereas it appears pretty likely the Rafale deal with India will be signed this calendar/fiscal year. As such we can say that the first Indian Rafales will be delivered in 2016/early 2017. For Qatar to get their birds before India they would have to sign within the next 18 months which doesn't look at all likely.

Why not? They have done there trials and evaluation and are in the negotioation stages. The recent news seems to be very promising and there could be a fixed deal even within this year. MMRCA requirers 36 month because we want a huge number of fighters and that in a licence production deal. Setting up the logistics in the IAF as well as our industry needs time, while that is not the case for Qatar. For Dassault, that easily can increase the production rate, it's also easy when the fighters are of the same standard as they produce for the French forces. So it's even highly likely that Qatar can get fighters before us, the only point is when they will sign a contract and what happens with their M2K-5s? Infact the latter is a reason why it would be even in our interest if Qatar gets Rafales first, because they then could be added to our fleet, if the costs are reasonable.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Why not? They have done there trials and evaluation and are in the negotioation stages. The recent news seems to be very promising and there could be a fixed deal even within this year. MMRCA requirers 36 month because we want a huge number of fighters and that in a licence production deal. Setting up the logistics in the IAF as well as our industry needs time, while that is not the case for Qatar. For Dassault, that easily can increase the production rate, it's also easy when the fighters are of the same standard as they produce for the French forces. So it's even highly likely that Qatar can get fighters before us, the only point is when they will sign a contract and what happens with their M2K-5s? Infact the latter is a reason why it would be even in our interest if Qatar gets Rafales first, because they then could be added to our fleet, if the costs are reasonable.

Your points are all valid and there is no doubt that if India signed the Rafale deal today and Qatar signed their Rafale deal today the Qataris would be getting their Rafales first given they are to be,as you say, FrAF production models and the IAF's will be highly customised and IAF-specific which will take time to certify/test.


However I've looked into this and I highly doubt the Qataris are ANYWHERE near signing, they're still seemingly trying to play all the sides off against each other.


Wrt the Qatari M2Ks, I think that the IAF is only interested in 2-3 trainer units (to replace those that have crashed recently) that they can push through the -5 MK.2 upgrade process, and not about whole SQDs of ex-Qatari M2Ks.

 

[sancho]

Wrt the Qatari M2Ks, I think that the IAF is only interested in 2-3 trainer units (to replace those that have crashed recently) that they can push through the -5 MK.2 upgrade process, and not about whole SQDs of ex-Qatari M2Ks.

No, the trainer need only came up through the crashes, but they were interested in the Qatari M2K-5s before and wanted to buy them, but they price asked was simply too high. Adding these fighters would actually be a nice triple game:

- Dassault produces 1 Rafales and send them to Qatar
- Qatar sends 1 M2K-5 to India
- IAF can send 1 M2K-H to HAL for upgrade

That means we actually could send 12 M2Ks to the upgrade without losing fighters in service. At the same time at least 1 squad of Rafale could be added too, which can replace a Mig squadron, so a benefit for all parties, but the cost for those 2nd hand Rafales will be the issue.

 

[sancho]

Speaking of different paintings, did you guys noticed that the nose is grey now and not black?